Re: Is it normal?
what she is demanding is quite justified, but the way I which she is saying it is extremely offensive. Hw wud any1 feel if a prospective spouse says I dnt trust you and i will destroy you. Not how you shd start a relationship
Re: Is it normal?
I think she is being cautious, but its coming off wrong, and she doesnt know how to portray it in the right way. Every girl has the right to secure a future for herself. Especially if this is an arranged marriage, no matter how much research or investigation someone does into the guy, no one really knows what his intentions are, or what he could do in the future. And the same goes for a love marriage. Maybe she has heard some horror stories, and wants to make sure that nothing like that happens to her in the future.
I know a girl who had an arranged marriage. After she got married (they had a nikkah but didnt register their marriage until they went to the city where he lived - which was in another country). Without her knowledge (this is what she says, but who can know the whole truth, only Allah) he had her sign a prenuptial agreement, and registered their marriage that day. 5 years later, he divorced her, and according the prenup (that she signed), everything that ever came into the marriage would be taken by him. EVERYTHING - home, money, jewellry - anything worth anything! She was left with nothing.
So, I think every girl has the right to demand these things in her nikkah. Its not about trust, its about securing a future for yourself because you just never know what is going to happen.
I agree. I've had this discussion with friends a few times and we've all been on the fence about including something like this in our nikkah. I would hope that I trust whoever I marry but that doesn't mean that I don't deserve to have a sense of security about my future. I just think this girl is wording it very poorly. But the sentiment echoed isn't all that unique. A lot of girls feel the same way and want to add that to their nikkah.
Re: Is it normal?
First question: Is it normal in our society that a girl demands from her fiancee that there will be a Nikkah condition that "you will not marry again, and if you violate this condition you will have to divorce me and pay me a large amount of money" ?
Ok may be it's not normal in our society but i consider it as a justified demand. But when asked the reason why she needs such assurance, her reply was "Because i don't trust you. I need security for my future. You cant mess with me, i know all about my rights. I will ruin you if you will divorce me".
Second question: Is she being insecure or reasonable? If she cant trust on her fiance then why is she going for this marriage? Is her fiancee justified for being offended by the "reason" she gave?
Note: Her fiance isn't involved in any outside affairs and she knows it very well.
So I feel like I'm in the same situation as your fiance' except I would never say it to his face because I KNOW he will get super offended. If you can though, try to understand it from the girl's perspective. She's marrying you- I'm not sure how much she knows about you, but there's always the fear that the guy may turn out to be a d-bag after marriage and the girl's life would be ruined. She had preconceived fears, and I like the fact that you think her demands are justified- but the cause of this bad blood is her "lack of trust" in you. Like someone else suggested, talk to her more often. Trust takes time to develop, so don't expect her to just drop everything and start trusting you only because you guys have been engaged. It's not normal to ask, but it's something that crosses many girls' minds before getting married.
As for the second question- yes, she's being insecure- although not unreasonably so. You're also justified to be offended by her reason. But I wouldn't question yours or hers decision to marry just yet because I feel like this is something a LOT of people go through, although not a lot would admit to it.
Re: Is it normal?
I wonder if this post was from a girl mentioning her fiance saying "I don't trust you and i will ruin you if you will ask for divorce", then everybody would be calling her fiance a big d-bag, it would be all about red flags and everybody would be advising her to think twice before marrying such a guy.
Re: Is it normal?
people change. the couple may trust each other at the time of marriage but that doesn't mean that trust won't be violated later down the line. if this makes the woman feel more secure, than why not. if the doesn't intend to marry again, he shouldn't have a problem with it.
Re: Is it normal?
.
As for the second question- yes, she's being insecure- although not unreasonably so. You're also justified to be offended by her reason. But I wouldn't question yours or hers decision to marry just yet because I feel like this is something a LOT of people go through, although not a lot would admit to it.
I dnt knw how close OP is to this girl, but this is not the way to approach any relationship. Girls do put conditions in nikah and ask for boatload of mehar but it's not a security. I think the OP is feeling justifiably resentful and dnt knw if he cud move on from this. If sm1 said that to me I wud politely show them the door.
Re: Is it normal?
I think if what she's asking is in the bounds of Islam then no one has any right to take that away or call it a silly decision. However, yes there is a proper way in which you should speak and approach this matter with your future spouse. (Being reasonable and all).
I don't think anyone should be all offended if your future wife said if you marry again then you will have to divorce me - that might not be something that the husband would do but circumstances can change - that is what she must protect herself from (it being something she dislikes).
If men are so confident that getting married again is NOT something they would do then they should have no qualms accepting the nikkah condition as thats something they wont allow. I think if your future husband has a problem agreeing to that condition - that would set alarm bells ringing for me.
As for the mehr part - Im not well-versed on that part but I think should to be an amount which the groom can pay and the bride is happy with.
I hate the fact that some people are so tied down with culture they don't see that Islam was the first religion to give women such rights - and it always has tried to safeguard their rights. This is something that should be cherished and upheld not abused by men or women.
Re: Is it normal?
I wonder if this post was from a girl mentioning her fiance saying "I don't trust you and i will ruin you if you will ask for divorce", then everybody would be calling her fiance a big d-bag, it would be all about red flags and everybody would be advising her to think twice before marrying such a guy.
No, I still wouldn't advise not marrying the guy but talk to him about the trust issue as well.
This is not directed to you, but in general I feel like Pakistani guys (and girls) need to understand that trust is earned, not automatically assigned to relationships. And in the beginning it's so delicate that every little lie and sentence said out of place wavers it. Anyways, best of luck to you- I hope whatever you guys decide is better for both of you!
Re: Is it normal?
I dnt knw how close OP is to this girl, but this is not the way to approach any relationship. Girls do put conditions in nikah and ask for boatload of mehar but it's not a security. I think the OP is feeling justifiably resentful and dnt knw if he cud move on from this. If sm1 said that to me I wud politely show them the door.
SO someone here mentioned that if a girl wants security, she should take up a job and not ask for "boatload" of money- I completely agree. The way I see it is she's putting this condition down more of as an hindrance for the guy to divorce because he'll have to pay it, then for her financial security- so it's for emotional security.
Re: Is it normal?
are you sure?
No, I still wouldn't advise not marrying the guy but talk to him about the trust issue as well.
This is not directed to you, but in general I feel like Pakistani guys (and girls) need to understand that trust is earned, not automatically assigned to relationships. And in the beginning it's so delicate that every little lie and sentence said out of place wavers it. Anyways, best of luck to you- I hope whatever you guys decide is better for both of you!
Re: Is it normal?
^Yes
Re: Is it normal?
SO someone here mentioned that if a girl wants security, she should take up a job and not ask for "boatload" of money- I completely agree. The way I see it is she's putting this condition down more of as an hindrance for the guy to divorce because he'll have to pay it, then for her financial security- so it's for emotional security.
I think she is all ready for a divorce even before getting married. Wud u seriously tell ur prospective spouse i dnt trust you and I will destroy you?
If you dnt trust them to be faithful, as I said before dnt bother with the hassle of getting married and go your separate ways.
i agree with the OP if the genders were reversed here I m not sure you would b so forgiving
Re: Is it normal?
before i say something,
are you really sure?
^Yes
Re: Is it normal?
I think she is all ready for a divorce even before getting married. Wud u seriously tell ur prospective spouse i dnt trust you and I will destroy you? If you dnt trust them to be faithful, as I said before dnt bother with the hassle of getting married and go your separate ways. i agree with the OP if the genders were reversed here I m not sure you would b so forgiving
Ok once again- I do NOT support the way she worded her feelings, and that's why I'm asking the OP to talk to her. Also, don't assume what I would do based on YOUR personality, I stand by my words- you can stand by urs :)
Sheharyaar- if you're trying to spin this around to say that the girl should earn trust and whatever, I agree. Otherwise, I'm lost!!!
Re: Is it normal?
First question: Is it normal in our society that a girl demands from her fiancee that there will be a Nikkah condition that "you will not marry again, and if you violate this condition you will have to divorce me and pay me a large amount of money" ?
Ok may be it's not normal in our society but i consider it as a justified demand. But when asked the reason why she needs such assurance, her reply was "Because i don't trust you. I need security for my future. You cant mess with me, i know all about my rights. I will ruin you if you will divorce me".
Second question: Is she being insecure or reasonable? If she cant trust on her fiance then why is she going for this marriage? Is her fiancee justified for being offended by the "reason" she gave?
Note: Her fiance isn't involved in any outside affairs and she knows it very well.
Wow....there are many issues piled up here. Here are some thoughts:
1) If the woman is dead-set against being one of multiple wives, then I don't see anything wrong with her stating that if you want to marry another woman, you must divorce her first. If you are 100% sure that you will never want a 2nd marriage, then this condition should not be an issue at all.
2) The "large amount of money".....well, how "large" is the amount she's asking for? Can you actually afford the amount? A "large amount" can be reasonable based on the man's income. Or is the amount she's asking for absolutely ridiculous based on your career choice/income?
3) When she stated that she doesn't trust you....did you ask her why she's willing to marry a man that she doesn't trust?
4) This is where modern day pre-nup comes in. Unfortunately, this is a must in many cases where $$, property, jewelry is involved (both from the man and woman's side). Any woman asking to put the type of conditions this woman is asking for.....welll then she should also be ready to sign a pre-nup stating that if she's ever caught being unfaithful, then she get nothing (This is VERY common among mean who have a high earning). Aside from the mehr mention in the nikaah....a pre-nup should also spell out details on property/asset division in case of divorce (b/c depending on where you live...at least in the U.S.....there's a potential she'll clean you out based in the circumstances at the time of divorce). Let her know that if she cheats on you....you also want the power to ruin her too. See how she reacts to that.
5) I believe she's being reasonable....but her communication skills are TERRIBLE! Also, there is no mentioned of her education level/career plans. If she's expected to give up the possibility of a career as a wife/mother....then yes, it makes sense that she wants assurance of future financial security in the event of a divorce. MANY women are forced to stay in miserable marriages or left practically on the streets b/c they devoted their life as a stay-home wife/mother....an then one day their husband's changed (the women have no savings of their own and no means to earn a living due to lack of experience).
6) I don't think there's any reason to be offended. Although it sounds horrible...given the divorce rate these days....the possibility of it should be considered. That's just reality. NO ONE thinks on the day of their wedding that they will get divorced.....yet look at the divorce rate. If she's thinking about her own financial stability in the future....then the fiance should also think of ways to protect himself in the event that it happens. Men and women BOTH have the right to protect themselves if the relationship goes sour.
7) Whether or not the fiance is involved in any outside affairs right now doesn't matter. This doesn't in any way guarantee that he will not cheat on her in the future (vice versa: no guarantee that she won't cheat on him either).
Re: Is it normal?
Ok thanx everybody. What i have concluded so far, girl is justified in asking for those conditions. Thats what everybody said and i also mentioned in my first post. But the way she asked is totally wrong. I again disagree with some people who said that her fiance shouldn't be offended. I consider such reason to be highly offensive.
Trust building is not a single sided department in relationships. I guess girls should be careful while throwing such statements in name of their rights.
Re: Is it normal?
protecting yourself is not messed up. its understandable given how girls are being told that "engagements can be easily broken", "so and so has a second wife and the first wife is miserable" etc etc if you put enough fear in any person you would want to be cautious and protect yourself from it.
have a career, that gives a women long term security then few dollars from ex-husband.
Re: Is it normal?
just today i heard this pakistani guy married an irainain gurl
she asked for 50,000$ as mehr he signed without know what was going to happen next, they are married and he is paying her in installments now he says shetrapped him. she keeps here keys fornthe safe with herself
i hope you aint this guy that i heard about....