Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@pakjangjoo

They teached the masses to kill apostates?

Who? the kings maybe that is true that was a conveniant way to quell dissent as moslem kings were the sprituial AND political heads of the country although most were not capable to be either.

[shweetdreamz]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

“Islam does not support the Gandhi like stance of non-violence(which in not practical).But Islam does not encourage War or killing,it encouraged to forgive but not commanded.”

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@ThandyMazaq

muslims have sold their conscience and their ownselves to Alalh

And of mankind is he who would sell himself, seeking the Pleasure of Allâh. And Allâh is full of Kindness to (His) slaves. (Al-Baqarah 2:207)

Yes very true we cannot argue with the will of Allah(SWT) and Prophet(PBUH).
But we have to be very careful whether the Mullah really represents the will of Allah(SWT)

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@shweetdreamz

“.”

What part did you not understand?
There is a big difference between No fighting and fighting only in the way of God

[shweetdreamz]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

yes we have to be very careful. we need to conduct an investigation as to which mullah has actually gotten the documents stating the will of allah, thru a reliable means of delivery ofcourse....not western postal service...no fedex or ups ofcourse.

[shweetdreamz]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

if someone is brought up with a different concept of god and they kill muslims over it thinking they are fighting in the way of god...is that ok?

[pakjangjoo]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@shweetdreamz

if someone is brought up with a different concept of god and they kill muslims over it thinking they are fighting in the way of god…is that ok?

They use Maududi’s sick distorted logic to argue that since Islam is the only true path and that all other paths are ex hypothesi false, only Islam has the right to murder murtadds, that their blood is forfeit.

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@shweetdreamz

yes we have to be very careful. we need to conduct an investigation as to which mullah has actually gotten the documents stating the will of allah, thru a reliable means of delivery ofcourse…not western postal service…no fedex or ups ofcourse.

No need to be so sarcastic…Mullahs and their so called “fatwas” are dime a dozen these days.That does not mean that all mullahs are bad,but certainly many are unreliable.How do we know which to follow there is no easy answer it depends a lot on the fiqah you follow.

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@shweetdreamz

if someone is brought up with a different concept of god and they kill muslims over it thinking they are fighting in the way of god…is that ok?

Well one think is for sure …thankgod Islam does not believe in non-violence we could atleast fight them:)

[pakjangjoo]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@Das Reich

Well one think is for sure …thankgod Islam does not believe in non-violence we could atleast fight them:)

using the destructive power of a state to murder murtadds, after they’ve been tried in what can only be described as a mockery of justice, is NOT fighting. it’s cowardice, it’s fanaticism, it’s savagery, it’s barbarity, it’s evil.

[shweetdreamz]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

so then even fighting within fiqahs is justified, cuz no one will believe which fiqah's mullah is correct.

Sunnis will never look up to a shia mullah and vice versa....same goes for wahabi no matter what the content of their message is.

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@pakjangjoo

using the destructive power of a state to murder murtadds, after they’ve been tried in what can only be described as a mockery of justice, is NOT fighting. it’s cowardice, it’s fanaticism, it’s savagery, it’s barbarity, it’s evil.

I was not replying to your question that murtadds should be killed or not I will get some concrete proof before i answer this it is a serious matter.
I was answering the question of “sweetdreamz” that if another religion declares war on islam and declares them infidels and orders to kill them.
This actually happened in spain under ferdinand and isabella.The moslems were driven out or forcibly converted.

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@shweetdreamz

so then even fighting within fiqahs is justified, cuz no one will believe which fiqah’s mullah is correct.

Sunnis will never look up to a shia mullah and vice versa…same goes for wahabi no matter what the content of their message is.

Different fiqahs will give you different answers let us be clear on that and you are partially right that yes that will result in infighting that depends a lot on the nature of the fatwa.Here lies the tragedy of the muslims in this present day there was a dispute over the succesion to the Prophet(PBUH) and the repurcussions can still be felt today.Had the muslims agreed on one successor maybe the whole community would have benefitted.

[shweetdreamz]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

ok so killing is gunah-e-kabeera right?(the greatest sin)

is conversion from islam to another religion also a guna-e -kabeera?

is it ok to punish one guna he kabeera by committing another gunh-e-kabeera?

too many gunahekabeeras i know

[pakjangjoo]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

the biggest gunaheekabeeraa is to allow mattoos to exist.

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

Please in your hatred for the mullahs do not try to generalize them.There are good and bad people in every proffesion.

[picoico]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@pakjangjoo

Murtadds will never be killed. Only those who say Murtadds must be killed will be killed.

Why is one barbaric and not the other? Sounds irrational to me…

[picoico]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@shweetdreamz

Sunnis will never look up to a shia mullah and vice versa…same goes for wahabi no matter what the content of their message is.

Oddly enough, it does happen among Islamists - but Islamists are by no means “traditional”…

It tends to be the traditionalist who have a serious problem with different sects (at least the recognized sects)…

[picoico]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@pakjangjoo

Isn’t this punishment barbaric? Doesn’t it put the lie to the oft-repeated claim that Islam is a religion of peace?

Muslims who convert Christians/Hindus/atheists to Islam in the West are not prevented from doing so, and the convert is not murdered.

Hey, I’m all for live-and-let-live, but (drawing from the lessons of early Islamic history) if these apostates are then going to turn around and make life even more difficult for Muslims by spewing out conspiriciy theories “warning” non-Muslims that Islam is the next communism, or that Muslims can’t be trusted and MUST be controlled, or fall in line with a foreign agenda regardless if it benifits Muslims or not, or even becomming openly hostile against Muslims…then screw-em.

What IS so barbaric about it in that context? People who leave the path is one thing…traitors are another. Freedom my ass…this has nothing to do with that in this case.

I thin the Mullahs (and even scholars for that matter) have confused the two, but the rational for the killing of hypocrites and apostates (the former is worse than the latter), is exactly that I outline above…it’s not some vague commandment…

Disagree with the party line? Become a scholar and make your point…

[MYwish]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

this has got nothing with the post but i know many people in pakistan and abroad who have become murtad's... should they be killed?