Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

[Sadiyah]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

From what I've heard about him, Mauwdudi has said some good and bad. There are things that he has said that are accurate, whereas there are also things that weren't fully in accord with Shariah.

As far as women being head of the state, I believe there are ahadith prohibiting women from it. Also, I believe there are also ahadith sentencing death to those who leave Islam.

[pakjangjoo]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@ThandyMazaq

i disagree with a lot of his theories regarding elections and politics too. so never did i mean that no disagreement with him is allowed. but those who disagree with him regarding islam being a total way of life that encompasses all aspects of a social life of a muslim those people are apostates because thats not from his own judgement, but agreement from all ulama throughout the history of islam. islam can not be seperated into rituals and social laws. islam is all or none. if you reject the obligation of salah all ulama agree you become kafir, and thus if some one rejects some aspect of islamic social law then they become apostates too. (like saying i dont think theives should have their hands cut, its too barbaric. its denial of allah’s laws and calling them unjust, which is KUFR akbar). wallah o alam.

So do you believe that apostates (murtadds) should be executed by the state or by individuals acting on self-issued fattywas?

[pakjangjoo]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@Das Reich

a begger who steals food because the govt has failed to bridge the divide between the have and have-nots and a wealthy person who steals money out of greed do they commit the same crime?
No punishment which was decreed by the Holy Prophet(PBUH) can be “barbaric” whether cutting hands or any other part.If people think that they are barbaric or primitive than it is their problem.

Is killing an apostate barbaric?

[ThandyMazaq]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@pakjangjoo

So do you believe that apostates (murtadds) should be executed by the state or by individuals acting on self-issued fattywas?

offcourse hudud is carried out by those who are in authority and if every one just started carrying out hudud, there would be fitnah.

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

Pakjangjoo i will answer your question later let me do some research

[ThandyMazaq]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@Das Reich

a begger who steals food because the govt has failed to bridge the divide between the have and have-nots and a wealthy person who steals money out of greed do they commit the same crime?
No punishment which was decreed by the Holy Prophet(PBUH) can be “barbaric” whether cutting hands or any other part.If people think that they are barbaric or primitive than it is their problem.

a non islamic govt can not enforce hudud. if a muslim govt that cared about hudud was in power, we have to assume they would also enforce ZAKAAT and have bait ul maal for the poor. if they reject zakaat, and are not just, then they are not islamic and their hudud laws are just as unislamic because islam is either all or none. islamic governments in past had stipends for muslims and food and shelter was guaranteed for every human being. even animals were taken care of. and thus in that situation if someone steals something priced over a certain amount, hudud is enforced.

[ThandyMazaq]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@Sadiyah

From what I’ve heard about him, Mauwdudi has said some good and bad. There are things that he has said that are accurate, whereas there are also things that weren’t fully in accord with Shariah.

.

true,he was just another human being who spoke about islam. even a shaykh like ibn taymiyah erred in a major aqeedah issue, so we just apply the rule of taking the good and leaving the bad of anyone when it comes to islam.

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@ThandyMazaq

a non islamic govt can not enforce hudud. if a muslim govt that cared about hudud was in power, we have to assume they would also enforce ZAKAAT and have bait ul maal for the poor. if they reject zakaat, and are not just, then they are not islamic and their hudud laws are just as unislamic because islam is either all or none. islamic governments in past had stipends for muslims and food and shelter was guaranteed for every human being. even animals were taken care of. and thus in that situation if someone steals something priced over a certain amount, hudud is enforced.

That is exactly what I thought.

[pakjangjoo]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

Murtadds will never be killed. Only those who say Murtadds must be killed will be killed.

Where is antiobl when you need him?

[Sadiyah]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

pakjangjoo, as someone has already mentioned, the punishment for apostacy is carried out by the state (Islamic state) and not by individuals.

[pakjangjoo]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@Sadiyah

pakjangjoo, as someone has already mentioned, the punishment for apostacy is carried out by the state (Islamic state) and not by individuals.

so what? does that take away the utter barbarousness and savagery of killing people because they change their religion?

[shweetdreamz]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

and then they say that islam is not spread by sword

[Sadiyah]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

pakjangjoo, I'm a follower of Quran and Hadith. Therefore, from the little that I know, the punishment for apostacy is death. I believe this punishment has been carried out in the past.

[pakjangjoo]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

Isn't this punishment barbaric? Doesn't it put the lie to the oft-repeated claim that Islam is a religion of peace?

Muslims who convert Christians/Hindus/atheists to Islam in the West are not prevented from doing so, and the convert is not murdered.

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@shweetdreamz

and then they say that islam is not spread by sword

Islam may have been INTRODUCED by sword in some places but it certainly did not SPREAD by sword.Evidence? all the tombs of saints that are flocked by the faithful all over the world,these were the people that teached the message of islam to the masses.I do not remember any Muslim king who is revered in this way.

[Sadiyah]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

pakjangjoo, simply put I don't have the knowledge and insight to be making judgements over what is sane and what is barbaric. It isn't for me to do so.

Whatever Allah (SWT) has legislated has wisdom behind it. My intellect may not be able to grasp it, but that does not mean I would label it as something being barbaric. I'm perfectly fine with everything that has been legislated in Shariah (Quran and Sunnah).

[pakjangjoo]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@Das Reich

Islam may have been INTRODUCED by sword in some places but it certainly did not SPREAD by sword.Evidence? all the tombs of saints that are flocked by the faithful all over the world,these were the people that teached the message of islam to the masses.I do not remember any Muslim king who is revered in this way.

They teached the masses to kill apostates?

[pakjangjoo]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@Sadiyah

pakjangjoo, simply put I don’t have the knowledge and insight to be making judgements over what is sane and what is barbaric. It isn’t for me to do so.

Whatever Allah (SWT) has legislated has wisdom behind it. My intellect may not be able to grasp it, but that does not mean I would label it as something being barbaric. I’m perfectly fine with everything that has been legislated in Shariah (Quran and Sunnah).

have you sold your conscience to a mullah?

[Das_Reich]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@pakjangjoo

Isn’t this punishment barbaric? Doesn’t it put the lie to the oft-repeated claim that Islam is a religion of peace?

.

Islam does not support the Gandhi like stance of non-violence(which in not practical).But Islam does not encourage War or killing,it encouraged to forgive but not commanded.

[ThandyMazaq]

Re: Is Islamism a bankrupt ideology?

@pakjangjoo

have you sold your conscience to a mullah?

muslims have sold their conscience and their ownselves to Alalh

And of mankind is he who would sell himself, seeking the Pleasure of Allâh. And Allâh is full of Kindness to (His) slaves. (Al-Baqarah 2:207)