^^ In addition to above, Islam simple rejected all the religions existed on the earth, Islam was not the next version of Judaism nor it was the refined version of Christianity.. it was something new to the people of those times, when the other books where compromised to meet the lust of the humans, the new Book and new way of life was taught to the people who have been ignored by the culture-rich empires of Persia and Rome… proving the power of the Book, crushing the super powers of that time within the 30 years..
Re: Why Allah chose Mecca for Last prophet.
^^ In addition to above, Islam simple rejected all the religions existed on the earth, Islam was not the next version of Judaism nor it was the refined version of Christianity.. it was something new to the people of those times, when the other books where compromised to meet the lust of the humans, the new Book and new way of life was taught to the people who have been ignored by the culture-rich empires of Persia and Rome... proving the power of the Book, crushing the super powers of that time within the 30 years..
I do not agree.
Islam was next version of Judaism.
If Judaism was Windows 2000 then Islam was Windows Xp.
Islam incorporated Lots of Judaism Laws just re-structured few and modified others. Introduced some more refined and simple laws discarded some out dated rulings.
Come on ! You can not contradict the fact that Islam's closest relative is Judaism. Just jews are full of arrogance and stupidity because they consider their religion inheritance bound. On the other hand Muslims are mostly down to earth they spread like virus.
Re: Why Allah chose Mecca for Last prophet.
I do not agree.
Islam was next version of Judaism.
If Judaism was Windows 2000 then Islam was Windows Xp.
Islam incorporated Lots of Judaism Laws just re-structured few and modified others. Introduced some more refined and simple laws discarded some out dated rulings.
Come on ! You can not contradict the fact that Islam's closest relative is Judaism. Just jews are full of arrogance and stupidity because they consider their religion inheritance bound. On the other hand Muslims are mostly down to earth they spread like virus.
yes i can, Judaism is not the religion taught by the Prophet (s) of Banu Ishaaq (AS), the Judaism present in those days ( still in these days) has been highly compromised and have little to do with the reality the Prophet(s) preached to the people on Israel.
Yes i agree, the teaching of Islam is not that different from the teaching of Those Prophet(s), same like Zr-Tasht, taught almost the same and Luqman, the wise, have said many things repeated in Quran and in east, Budha have taught the same.. All the Prophet(s) have taught the same... but at the time of Prophet Muhammad (SAAW) none of the teaching was in practice... that was one of the reasons He (SAAW) was sent...
The earlier Prophet (AS) were sent to revive the teaching or to aid the existing Prophet, not to mention their areas was select group of people/region... the books revealed to those Prophets suggests the same...
Where as Quran have totally over-written everything.... Windows example is not valid because, in different circumstances, Windows 2000 would work better than Windows XP whereas, Quran says, all the religion prior to Quran has been abolished and their followers are no longer on right path... ( well to begin with the so-called followers have selected the wrong path)
Re: Why Allah chose Mecca for Last prophet.
???'religion of that time' or 'not the same religion'.???
you're contradicting yourself. Islam is the same religion that was brought by biblical Prophets. Islam is a continuation of what we call Judaism. Its the light beam at new wavelength, coming from same source. Its the finality nature of Allah's religion that formed more refined and detailed laws that are bound to be complaint with times till end of this world. It (also) corrected and reinforced some laws that were changed due to the human nature as you described, while added new ones as seemed appropriate by the Creator; Quran is like Service Pack 2 where original release (Bible) is obsolete and no more supported by vendor due to vulnerabilities. The message is same, before it was plain text (Bible) modified at will, now its digitally signed HTML sent with SSL encryption so it cannot be modified (if tried, easily traceable and refuted).
Re: Why Allah chose Mecca for Last prophet.
???'religion of that time' or 'not the same religion'.??? you're contradicting yourself. Islam is the same religion that was brought by biblical Prophets. Islam is a continuation of what we call Judaism. Its the light beam at new wavelength, coming from same source. Its the finality nature of Allah's religion that formed more refined and detailed laws that are bound to be complaint with times till end of this world. It (also) corrected and reinforced some laws that were changed due to the human nature as you described, while added new ones as seemed appropriate by the Creator; Quran is like Service Pack 2 where original release (Bible) is obsolete and no more supported by vendor due to vulnerabilities. The message is same, before it was plain text (Bible) modified at will, now its digitally signed HTML sent with SSL encryption so it cannot be modified (if tried, easily traceable and refuted).
I don't know how you guys can quote examples of Windows to make the point!!!
If you are not aware of the fact then please allow me to tell you that, Windows 98, 2000, XP and the newer version, they all can work independently, and they are all in use by certain people who have certain requirement in addition to the fact that none of the version of the windows says that the last version in obsolete or no longer to be used... which is not the case with Islam.. Quran clearly says that anything existing prior to this is no longer valid and anyone not following Quran and The Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) is no longer on right path... now tell me how this connects with the Windows Philosophy... it only connects in one condition, that all the religions, such as Judaism, Christianity etc are right ones and they are just alternative version to Islam ... is that what you meant???
And please try to read with patience, i am not here to change your religion or view point but least i can ask is to read and understand what i wrote, i said, the religion existed at the time of Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) was compromised!!! none of them was in its true format, Jews had altered their book with things to suit them and Christianity has done no different, infact they went a stage a head and cameup with the theory of Taslees... not to mention other Pagan religion existed in those times, The Prophet (SAAW) denounced all of them... Judaism, Christianity, Pagan, Idol, Magic, Fire Worship you name it, He (SAAW) denounced them all and presented Islam as a Final path for the Mankind ( along with Jinn)... I hope i have made the point clear...
Re: Why Allah chose Mecca for Last prophet.
Mr. Lector I will do the honor by explaining the continuation, modification and restructuring of old jewish laws in Islam.
Moderators ! Kindly split these posts and a make a new thread as this is totally different topic under discussion from original topic. thanks
Re: Why Allah chose Mecca for Last prophet.
because he didn't.
Re: Why Allah chose Mecca for Last prophet.
Mr. Lector I will do the honor by explaining the continuation, modification and restructuring of old jewish laws in Islam.
Moderators ! Kindly split these posts and a make a new thread as this is totally different topic under discussion from original topic. thanks
I think you belong to set of people you do not take no for an answer neither they tolerate any difference of opinion.. had you red my posts, you may not need to lecture... but go ahead and type on... without knowing what i had posted....
anyway, before doing that, would you mind answering a simple question ( one line answer would be enough) Is Judaism or any other religion for that matter is Legal by Quran/Islam? ( by legal i mean is the follower of that particular religion are considered to be on right path?) trust me, it will save you tons of time and effort...
Re: Is Islam Was or Was Not....
Hanibal bhai, with respect due, I disagree with your posts above. I understand where you might be cong from but your line of thinking needs Wish I had time to tacke all the points.
In first post you said all other reigions were rejected. Not true.
But then in next post you said people were going stray hence they were given 'new' relgion.
Now if yo say that people were going away from earlier teachings then bringing them Islam is not really rejecting other religions but giving them same earlier teachngs as a refresher with refinement of some methods, laws and day to day affair. Basics did not change however, so we can't call Islam a NEW RELIGION at all.
Hope you got it.
If still not convinced then please read this:
[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
Quran clearly does not reject these religions.
So how can you say that bhai sahab?
Note: The translation here is somewhat different from other sources, so please search more on your own. The essence is same though.
Re: Is Islam Was or Was Not....
Hanibal bhai, with respect due, I disagree with your posts above. I understand where you might be cong from but your line of thinking needs Wish I had time to tacke all the points.
In first post yo said all other reigions were rejected. Not true.
But then in next post you said people were going stray hence they were given 'new' relgion. Now if yo say that people were going away from earlier teachings then bringing them Islam is not really rejecting other religions but giving them same earlier teachngs as a refresher with refinement of some methods, laws and day to day affair. Basics did not change however, so we can't call Islam a NEW RELIGION at all.
Hope you got it.
If still not convinced then please read this:
[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
Quran clearly does not reject these religions.
So how can you say that bhai sahab?
Note: The translation here is somewhat different from other sources, so please search more on your own. The essence is same though.
1) When i say these religions were denounced/rejected, then i meant that after Islam was introduced and Prophet (SAAW) started inviting people towards Islam...and henceforth, none of the religion after introduction of Islam is legal or on the right path
2) When i say these religions went astray, i meant, that none of the religion was left in real shape, all the divine books were compromised, and anyone seeking for the right religion wouldn't have found one, That is one the reasons why Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) was sent.
3) The Aya you have posted is about people who had been there before the Islam arrived and not after Islam... and not those who insisted to follow the book which according to Quran is no longer valid...
Re: Is Islam Was or Was Not....
1) When i say these religions were denounced/rejected, No they were not. You are contradicting here when you say they were valid before prophet Muhammad came.
then i meant that after Islam was introduced and Prophet (SAAW) started inviting people towards Islam...and henceforth, none of the religion after introduction of Islam is legal or on the right path
*Not true. I think you keep confusing yourself here. If you separate people not following the earlier relgions from those who used to follow these religions then you will be cleared. *
2) When i say these religions went astray, i meant, that none of the religion was left in real shape, all the divine books were compromised, and anyone seeking for the right religion wouldn't have found one, That is one the reasons why Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) was sent.
So this means religions were not rejected, people's actions were rejected. I gave you answer why Islam came above. Not to bring a new religion altogether but to bring back same basic teachings.
3) The Aya you have posted is about people who had been there before the Islam arrived and not after Islam... and not those who insisted to follow the book which according to Quran is no longer valid...
*Again, bahi sahab, earlier religions were not considered invalid. A basic concept which you may need to consider here is same Allah brought earlier religions so how come he would reject those? *
The example of computer is valid if you understand one thing here as below.
Yes people may use older versions of windows to get by doing some functions, but with the improved windows version you may be able to use newer softwares/hardwares etc. better to be successful.
Hence the improvement (islam) helps achieve salvation. And older religions NOW are not to be followed despite older religions still are considered valid if found.
In short, being non-functional/obsolete does not mean invalid.
Re: Is Islam Was or Was Not....
The example of computer is valid if you understand one thing here as below.
Yes people may use older versions of windows to get by doing some functions, but with the improved windows version you may be able to use newer softwares/hardwares etc. better to be successful.
Hence the improvement (islam) helps achieve salvation. And older religions NOW are not to be followed despite older religions still are considered valid if found.
In short, being non-functional/obsolete does not mean invalid.
I wanted to post the aya and relevant hadees, but haven't got it here, so in mean time i'll be delighted if you can answer this simple question
Is Judaism or any other religion for that matter is Legal/Right by Quran/Islam? ( by legal i mean is the follower of that particular religion are considered to be on right path and it is OK to be a jew, christian or Hindu ?) trust me, it will save you tons of time and effort... a simple yes or no will do
yes means, you agree that a person can be Jew and have no believe on Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), Quran and Islam... and yet he can be in Heavens in the after life
No means, you agree that a person cannot go to heaven unless he believes in the Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), Quran and Islam, and yes then only he can be considered for the heavens.
Re: Why Allah chose Mecca for Last prophet.
I do respect opinion of learned members, no matter how different it is from mine. I even fought for their right to express their views in full freedom. There are evidence stored in archive. just recently
I do correct myself when proved with evidence and proper well structured rebuttal. Again the evidence is stored in archive.
If my request splitting thread and making a new topic is inappropriate for further discussion, then i tender apology. 
Re: Is Islam Was or Was Not....
A simple yes and no would have been better... i asked the same question to smoothguy, you and diwana... and like i said a simple yes or no can answer everything, no detailed arguments or references or anything is needed.. that what i am asking, nothing else...
Re: Why Allah chose Mecca for Last prophet.
I think you belong to set of people you do not take no for an answer neither they tolerate any difference of opinion.. had you red my posts, you may not need to lecture... but go ahead and type on... without knowing what i had posted....
anyway, before doing that, would you mind answering a simple question ( one line answer would be enough) Is Judaism or any other religion for that matter is Legal by Quran/Islam? ( by legal i mean is the follower of that particular religion are considered to be on right path?) trust me, it will save you tons of time and effort...
Your question is not clear.
- Judaism is a legal religion by Islam and Quran , but they are not considered to be on right path completely. So they are offered right path in this book and religion Islam.
Now legal means acceptance by law.
You earlier stance was totally different
[quote]
^^ In addition to above, Islam simple rejected all the religions existed on the earth, Islam was not the next version of Judaism nor it was the refined version of Christianity.. it was something new to the people of those times, when the other books where compromised to meet the lust of the humans, the new Book and new way of life was taught to the people who have been ignored by the culture-rich empires of Persia and Rome... proving the power of the Book, crushing the super powers of that time within the 30 years..
[/quote]
Now I again stand by my position that Islam was not a new religion. It was just a refined religion with more well structured laws and clarity.
Judaism was not fully rejected. Simply jews were offered a better religion which will make life simple for them. And they knew it.
Now, on this date Jan 31, 2011 can you tell me any dietary laws of any other religion which is closest to Islamic dietary Laws ?
There is one and only one :Jewish Dietary Laws !
Kosher food is next best thing to halal food. Beat that
Re: Why Allah chose Mecca for Last prophet.
Your question is not clear.
Is Judaism or any other religion for that matter is Legal/Right by Quran/Islam? ( by legal i mean is the follower of that particular religion are considered to be on right path and it is OK to be a jew, christian or Hindu ?) trust me, it will save you tons of time and effort... a simple yes or no will do
yes means, you agree that a person can be Jew and have no believe on Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), Quran and Islam... and yet he can be in Heavens in the after life
No means, you agree that a person cannot go to heaven unless he believes in the Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), Quran and Islam, and yes then only he can be considered for the heavens.
Re: Is Islam Was or Was Not....
Legal does not always mean right.
You drive with perfectly legal driving license on highway.
You get tired and started feeling dizzy while driving. It is not right for you to drive in this state, but again still then it is legal.
There are tons of other example for difference in legal and right
Muslims are allowed to marry four different women in same time. It is legal
Some Muslim men are not mentally prepared for this gigantic responsibility. So it is not right for them
So, the conclusion that being right is dependent of various variants. Being legal or illegal is written and defined.
Re: Is Islam Was or Was Not....
^^ So you don't want to answer the question but want to get into the debate.. which i normally avoid, i guess i have made my case, you are free to go in circles as much as you want... i rest my case here.
you can continue to believe that a jew is on right path despite the fact that he do not believe in Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), i know you have not said it but also i know that you have deliberately tried to not to answer it in simple terms, and your reply, reminds me of the Jewish habit of having unnecessary debates over the issues which could have been resolved simply...
Thank you
Over and out
Re: Why Allah chose Mecca for Last prophet.
I think you belong to set of people you do not take no for an answer neither they tolerate any difference of opinion.. had you red my posts, you may not need to lecture... but go ahead and type on... without knowing what i had posted....
anyway, before doing that, would you mind answering a simple question ( one line answer would be enough) Is Judaism or any other religion for that matter is Legal by Quran/Islam? ( by legal i mean is the follower of that particular religion are considered to be on right path?) trust me, it will save you tons of time and effort...
I added word obsolete because this is what Allah has done (unlike Microsoft in my example). The later OSes have refined build codes (if you know the build no. of kernel), more features and add ons to keep up with the latest demands of the users and applications.
Now if you apply this analogy you will get your answer. Isn't Windows XP based on earlier NT4 kernel, yes it is with more refined kernel build. But it is based on same kernel, just more refined and tweaked for performance and stability. Hence its called new version in software terminology. Microsoft did not write it from scratch, why would they when they have invested 20 years developing their best approach to an OS for PCs. Same thing with Islam. Its same message (why the basics be changed, its tawheed, the core of Allah's message right!) but more refined and ad-ons (sharia laws). Now to answer your question above, can you upgrade from NT 4.0 to Windows 7? No, MS requires you to install Windows 7 on a barebone system because there is no upgrade procedure from one build to another (unlike XP to Vista upgrade as Christianity was suppose to be a refresher of Judaism for Jews). So for acceptance of Islam one needs to acknowledge that the message prior to Islam was true but was corrupted or outdated to serve people of whole world till judgment day, just like you cannot run latest apps on NT 4.0 for compatibility reasons in 2011. NT was not designed for today's demanding apps and web-rich content, so didn't Judaism, it was not meant to be complaint for all times and it is evident from the restrictions. Islam is the religion of all Prophets from Adam to Muhammed SAW and has carried the same message, just more refined laws.
Re: Is Islam Was or Was Not....
I wanted to post the aya and relevant hadees, but haven't got it here, so in mean time i'll be delighted if you can answer this simple question
I think know which hadees or event you e talkng about. Its where the Prophet SAW showed his anger when someone found something from pervious scripture and started readng it. Not sure where that hadeeth can be found and how. Need to search. But again, like I mentioned above that does not mean the it was true part of scripture nor it means the Prophet SAW rejected it. All it could mean he wanted Quran to be followed since this was the order from Allah himself.
Here I am beatng the word rejection for a reason.
Is Judaism or any other religion for that matter is Legal/Right by Quran/Islam? Yes they are. Like the authentic verdion of Windows 2000 or XP.
( by legal i mean is the follower of that particular religion are considered to be on right path Not now. Snce now we have Windows 7. Contrary to Windows versions example, islam is considered complete and final version by muslims. Other than few people as you might be aware of.
and it is OK to be a jew, christian or Hindu ?) trust me, it will save you tons of time and effort... a simple yes or no will do
Interestngly enough you brought hinduism here. Shows how much you are confused of the issue. Why bring completely different religion all together to compare with Islam????
yes means, you agree that a person can be Jew and have no believe on Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), Quran and Islam... and yet he can be in Heavens in the after life
No means, you agree that a person cannot go to heaven unless he believes in the Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), Quran and Islam, and yes then only he can be considered for the heavens.
*You draw your own conclusion there. I said NO with condition of time and not invalidating previous 'relgions' (excluding hinduism or related ones) *
I think you are slowly drifting from the position you started from. You used word rejected without any good reason then you said people strayed hence need for NEW religion.
You hve not read my above post carefully.
I asked why would same Allah reject his own teachings?
With Islam coming in to Arabia, the previous 'religions' were not condemened or rejected my friend.
I used word religion for simplicity but technically Judaism/Christianity and Islam are extension of SAME religion with modiifcaton/improvement.
As for your question, I already mentioned yes previous 'methods' were to be abandoned but basics were not rejected.
Quran is full of good words for prior prophets and their teachings. So how come a muslim can say Judaism or Christianity were REJECTED?
All muslims believe and you also mentioned that other scriptures were adultrated/changed and hence no pure teachngs of previous prophets are left ( some basics may still be same though), hence, no one now truely follows pevious teachngs and when improvised verson is available and is emphasized (as per islamic teachings) then this improvised version need to be followed.