Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

[ak47]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@anjjan

picoico, I damn care how you interprete the word of God(?) every time to your satisfaction and take shelter of contexts. I understand what i read, that you state the religion of modern world, science etc. I did not know that God maent a ‘little patting’ when it says ‘beat your woman’.

Yes, AK, may be I am jeolous, how you can declare the modern world following your quotes. I think the word ‘laundi’ is used for lady slave in Quran and it tells to use her for satisfaction.

The thread is ‘Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.’

i knew you was jealous your posts say it all

[picoico]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@anjjan

picoico, I damn care how you interprete the word of God(?) every time to your satisfaction and take shelter of contexts. I understand what i read, that you state the religion of modern world, science etc. I did not know that God maent a ‘little patting’ when it says ‘beat your woman’.

The point was all that matters is how Muslims interpret these versus. From the outside, it’s mere petty polemics.

The word in arabic means “lightly tap”. Not beat like an animal. Further, the dynamic is much more complicated than what you would suggest (as if YOU have no motivations here)…and the Sunnah is a huge factor.

Context is important. Your berating it as some kind of excuse simply admits to the intellectually vapid approach to Islam that one can’t take seriously.

[desinum1]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@picoico

The point was all that matters is how Muslims interpret these versus. From the outside, it’s mere petty polemics.

The word in arabic means “lightly tap”. Not beat like an animal. Further, the dynamic is much more complicated than what you would suggest (as if YOU have no motivations here)…and the Sunnah is a huge factor.

Context is important. Your berating it as some kind of excuse simply admits to the intellectually vapid approach to Islam that one can’t take seriously.

First it was beating..then tapping…then lightly tapping…100 years from now a new picoico will say it meant ..gently caressing!!! Islam is changing with time!!
So…is there a consideration for built and weight of the “tapper”? do you think a skinny 100lb “lightly tapper” is same as 300lb “lightly tapper”?

[desinum1]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@RashGuy

I understand that I am hitting a raw nerve here. I am not a muslim, but to the so called pure muslims I have a few questions. I dont intend to hurt your sentiments, but these are genuine doubts and I need the clarifications…

1. Isnt taking and giving interest(banks) haraam. Is it really possible to survive in this world without the concept of interest. I would rather prefer usury to be banned rather than banning the concept of interests. I know that there are banks which cater to the interest free concept. But how many muslims would bank that way.
   ** - it is possible; many GOOD muslim in pakistan never pay interest on the goverment/bank loan. Sometimes, they don’t even pay back the capital borrowed, ask accountability bureau, if you don’t belive me **

2. A female should be accompanied by a male relative when she goes out. Is this feasible.
   ** - sure if they are both unemployed **

3. I know that is a debateable question. Isnt music haraam. True there are different schools of thought regarding this, but if Islam is a perfect religion why do we still have doubts about such basic issues.
   ** - religion is perfect but as human being we are unable to interpret it, only true muslim was mohammad and he died years ago **

4. The concept of polygamy. True Islam lays down strict guidelines regarding polygamy. How many muslims really understand the guidelines and adhere to them.
   ** - it is very modern/capitalistic in this way, islam allows it only if you can afford it **

5. Four witnesses for a rape. Is it possible** - sure, as long as every rape is a gang rape with at least 4 or more criminals **

Almost every answer given on this question is different. that is the real problem. Muslim are mico-managing religion. Even while taking a dump they argue, what is proper way to do it as prescribed in hadith. Instead of looking at islam as a guide to a peaceful,tranquill and loving life, there are stuck in rituals/rules laidout for tribal people grounded in land of the camels 1600 years ago.

[desinum1]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@mAd_ScIeNtIsT

2. A female should be accompanied by a male relative when she goes out. Is this feasible.

Only some Muslim scholars think that’s a part of Islam. Others believe the restriction only applies to journeys that exceed a specified length or duration.
** - what is specified, length or duration of time? or both applied at the same time? suppose lenght is 1 mile, a woman must have company of man if she travels more than a mile. if she walks it takes about 15 minutes. what if she rides 60mph but travels the same distance, 1 mile? It will only take one minute, does she need company of a male? To circumvent this problem,Suppose you say it is distance or time which ever is greater. Is it fair? because a poor muslim woman with no vehicle at her disposal might be at disadvantage than her richer counterpart. Because a rich woman will be able to travel more (distance wise) than the poor muslim woman. But wait…where is the equity and fairness that the islam teaches. This is why all “pure” islamic country are backward, they are too busy interpreting the “correct” islam. Who has time to study? **

^

[picoico]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@desinum1

First it was beating..then tapping…then lightly tapping…100 years from now a new picoico will say it meant ..gently caressing!!! Islam is changing with time!!
So…is there a consideration for built and weight of the “tapper”? do you think a skinny 100lb “lightly tapper” is same as 300lb “lightly tapper”?

No, the interpretation is guided by Sunnah. It was never “beating” except by those who wanted to in fact beat. Period.

Nothing is changing, people just suck at making such clear distinctions or (alternativley) VERY good at subverting.

A tap is a tap, don’t be obtuse.

[picoico]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@ak47

Islam is political ideology correct

False.

killing people ? dont know where your going here

You think of everything in terms of ideology to such an extent it blinds you to the reason why Muslims are agitating: because people are killing them.

the verse regarding 2 woman witness is restricted to one aspect alone a financial transaction the verse never states that womans witness is worth half a mans this is your interpretation.

Abay, all schools of fiqh have this interpretation…leave me out of it. Let us call a spade a spade here. Sometimes, even honourable men are a victim of their day and age. Such was the case of interpreting this verse in the past, which has in fact been extended beyond financial transactions.

The point was, now days, you can have female Bankers who know the ins-and-outs of financial transactions. It is insufficent to have two gits off the street witness, say, a massive loan. Legal protection is there in the form of a document and YOU NEED a lawyer to do anything.

Things have gotten more complex, and are hardly “the same”.

[ak47]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@picoico

False.

You think of everything in terms of ideology to such an extent it blinds you to the reason why Muslims are agitating: because people are killing them.

Abay, all schools of fiqh have this interpretation…leave me out of it. Let us call a spade a spade here. Sometimes, even honourable men are a victim of their day and age. Such was the case of interpreting this verse in the past, which has in fact been extended beyond financial transactions.

The point was, now days, you can have female Bankers who know the ins-and-outs of financial transactions. It is insufficent to have two gits off the street witness, say, a massive loan. Legal protection is there in the form of a document and YOU NEED a lawyer to do anything.

Things have gotten more complex, and are hardly “the same”.

Islam is politcal ideology if the likes of Bush and Putin can see this i find it unbeliveable that you can’t see this obvious fact the evidence has been provided 10 times previous do a search if you can be bothered.

muslims are agitating ? i still dont know what you are talking about here.

Female bankers and loans and picking 2 people of the street oh sorry as you mention 2 gits and a lawyer. well firstly the transaction can be completed by a man secondly a binding contract between 2 parties(muslims) is enough and the witness does not have to be a lawyer.

you claim things are complex or tricky today things have moved from what i see its not complex or tricky at all just you want to make it that way when in fact islam is so simple you want to follow the winding road while the straight road you avoid question is why?

[RashGuy]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

//No, the interpretation is guided by Sunnah. It was never "beating" except by those who wanted to in fact beat. Period. //

So that means Islam is open to interpretations. I can interpret a light tap to be a brutal hit and get away with it.....

[anjjan]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@picoico

The word in arabic means “lightly tap”. Not beat like an animal. Further, the dynamic is much more complicated than what you would suggest (as if YOU have no motivations here)…and the Sunnah is a huge factor.
.

1. Ok, you tell me what is the actual Arabic word ‘beating or little tap’ in original Quran?
2. and what do you think that recommending a lady slave ‘laundi’ is ok in modern word?

AK, you must study Quran. So far your level is zero.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

And drinking cows urine can help establish a lucarative business with a brand name like urinola cowmata

[picoico]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@RashGuy

So that means Islam is open to interpretations. I can interpret a light tap to be a brutal hit and get away with it…

You can interpret it, but hardly get away with it if you have no logical coherence to your position.

The Prophet has spoken on the issue, and has set the example. Interpret against that if you must…now you must make the case why people should follow…

…and on the other hand, why do people follow interpretations made by the most ignorant of igorant people?

[picoico]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@anjjan

1. Ok, you tell me what is the actual Arabic word ‘beating or little tap’ in original Quran?
2. and what do you think that recommending a lady slave ‘laundi’ is ok in modern word?

1. The word is “idribuhunna”, which is a derriviative of “daraba” (to beat). Yet, the word itself has different meaning.

2. No one talks of slaves now days except bigoted sophists who have nothing better to do with their time…

[picoico]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@ak47

Islam is politcal ideology if the likes of Bush and Putin can see this i find it unbeliveable that you can’t see this obvious fact the evidence has been provided 10 times previous do a search if you can be bothered.

Actually, everyone seems to agree that what OBL and the hizb want is a pseudo-idelogy, as it has no concrete forms but only promises.

Islam is about God, every other concern is secondary.

muslims are agitating ? i still dont know what you are talking about here.

Rising up. Uprising. Taking arms against opression, not to take on your “ideology”.

well firstly the transaction can be completed by a man secondly a binding contract between 2 parties(muslims) is enough and the witness does not have to be a lawyer.

Yes, a witness doesn’t need to be a lawyer. You missed the point. How logical is it if a contract is written by a women, but she herself in another situation cannot witness over another similar contract?

from what i see its not complex or tricky at all just you want to make it that way when in fact islam is so simple you want to follow the winding road while the straight road you avoid question is why?

Abay, the world is more complex, the only people who don’t seem to think otherwise tend to live in caves and dream of a fitna-ridden state lead by Abu Hamza as “Khalifah”.

Why does complexity frighten you so? Because it requires education, and a fighting of ignorance? Why is it such a bad thing? Why is “simple” good?

[maddi]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

.

[ak47]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@picoico

Actually, everyone seems to agree that what OBL and the hizb want is a pseudo-idelogy, as it has no concrete forms but only promises.

Islam is about God, every other concern is secondary.

Rising up. Uprising. Taking arms against opression, not to take on your “ideology”.

Yes, a witness doesn’t need to be a lawyer. You missed the point. How logical is it if a contract is written by a women, but she herself in another situation cannot witness over another similar contract?

Abay, the world is more complex, the only people who don’t seem to think otherwise tend to live in caves and dream of a fitna-ridden state lead by Abu Hamza as “Khalifah”.

Why does complexity frighten you so? Because it requires education, and a fighting of ignorance? Why is it such a bad thing? Why is “simple” good?

I think you are the only moderate who claims there is no islamic ideology on here basically in simple terms they call it “your on your own”.

Logical you cannot apply logical arguments to every situation because somebody can always come up with a better logical argument than yours. Is it logical when wearing socks to wipe the top of your feet when doing wudu is’nt it more logical to wipe the bottom?

Living in caves maybe you live in cave i don’t know but this silly statement is tabloid trash i did’nt know you read that kind of rubbish but then i guess i know where these arguments come from now.

Complexity does not frighten me at all you claimed things are complex this is your view not mine. When moderates as yourself claim you wish to implemt a new islam with no polticial ideology you are trying to implemt the continuation of the corrupt system already in place and as can be seen in all the muslim countries this policy has been complete failure.

[picoico]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@ak47

I think you are the only moderate who claims there is no islamic ideology on here basically in simple terms they call it “your on your own”.

I don’t think you or any of the other “Islam is ideology” types understand what ideologies are…

Logical you cannot apply logical arguments to every situation because somebody can always come up with a better logical argument than yours.

Unless the arguments are illogical. Nor is there “always” a better argument…

Complexity does not frighten me at all you claimed things are complex this is your view not mine. When moderates as yourself claim you wish to implemt a new islam with no polticial ideology

Tsk tsk. No, we want the OLD islam. 'Tis you who are trying to innovate in matters of faith, namely by making Islam into a modern ideology.

you are trying to implemt the continuation of the corrupt system already in place and as can be seen in all the muslim countries this policy has been complete failure.

Muslims have been the failure more than anything else. Systems cannot be corrupt, only people.

[ak47]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

@picoico

Muslims have been the failure more than anything else. Systems cannot be corrupt, only people.

systems cannot corrupt are you for real is capitalism not corrupt man what are you talking about do you actualy know how the capitalist system works i don’t think so otherwise you would not make such a silly statement as systems are not corrupt. Benazhir bhutto prime examples of people who are educated in the capitalist thoughts from high profile western universities they have the exact same ideals as the likes of Bush of the US and Chiraq in france when they come to power first thing they do is implement there ideals and lining there pockets all the way to the bank. Secondly if the system is corrupt in the first place which capitalism is then you are trying to implement a false doctrine on people which will only lead to more problems. thirdly islam has challenge if you can proove islam to be false than provide the ayahs this is the challenge laid down in the quran. What is the challenge that democrohypocrisy/capitalism sets itself to test if it can be prooved to be a false doctrine or the truth it has none it says we are right even if you proove us wrong we are still right .

Lets face it as bush has declared its battle of ideologies between western imperialism vs islam you either with kuffar or with the muslims there is no in between the in between are the munafiqs(hypocrites)

[suroor_ca02]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

another stupid thread.

[maryum]

Re: Is Islam a followable religion in the modern world.

just testing 123 first time on this site