Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

queen_24 · March 26, 2012, 9:10pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Peace queen_24,

U heard na ‘Aik kharab machli sary gal ko ganda kr deti hy’. Similarly wearing ‘burqa’ and doing shameful acts also affect those women who have nothing to do with this shameful act and because of some idiot pplz they also labeled one of them.

Like I have long beard and while travelling, everybody looks at me like i’m a ‘suicide attacker’, they keep eye on me and watch my every moves etc., This is b’coz of some outer factors (false news, anti-Islamic media etc.,) make them believe that every beard person could be suicide bomber and somehow their attitude or the looks affects me, creating a disturbance whereas sometime I think I should remove my beard and there is no harm if I removed, although its just a Sunnah.

I think we should (or those who face problems due to that) should raise their voice of take necessary steps.

respecting the religion forum, verna apki baat p bohat hansi aayi, i even imagined your face when people see you that way

lethal_kamikaze · March 26, 2012, 9:11pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

^

queen_24 · March 26, 2012, 9:13pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

^ aray, I have all my sympathies :)
but seriously, iska ajar bhi milega aapko, because you don't care for people around and still follow the Sunnah!

Allah hum sab ko neki ki hidayat day amen.

lethal_kamikaze · March 26, 2012, 9:14pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Peace queen_24

Ameen & Halaal hugz

queen_24 · March 26, 2012, 9:31pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Coversation between you and LKK
LK: Peace my21098,
Before I start, could u plz tell me that whether you included any hadith also of just concluded based on Quranic verses.?
YOU: I didnt!

^ Also you said, you didn't mention any hadith in your book.
Would you tell me, when You dont believe in even a hadith provided (which's been said a weak one), how do you expect from people to get convinced on what You wrote in your book without providing any Hadith which denies the origin of pardah for covering head? !!

my21098 · March 26, 2012, 9:45pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Hmmm.....,I guess I was wrong, thank you brothers and sisters. I will get rid of my book right away. Thank you so much and please don't get angry at me Bye Salaam to you :)

lethal_kamikaze · March 26, 2012, 9:49pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Peace my21098,

Maybe I could be wrong but I would like to know more about your opinion. Plz do share.

queen_24 · March 26, 2012, 9:50pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

its alright, we always are here for such healthy discussions :)

my21098 · March 26, 2012, 9:54pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Yawwwwnnnnn ok guys I'm getting sleepy it's three am lol anyway tomorrow inshallah I will share my opinions good night have a nice night and don't sleep on your belly ;)

lethal_kamikaze · March 26, 2012, 9:59pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Sukar hy mein ne yeh point raise nahi kiya

U r always welcome.

queen_24 · March 26, 2012, 10:04pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

psyah · March 27, 2012, 9:24am

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Peace my21098

I think the idea of writing a book was good, but I think you have taken too many short cuts and jumped to too many conclusions in your study. I suggest you do it again and this time present a wholesome argument for both sides, include all references and - when I stated "gems" I meant "great/funny bits to read" ... :)

my21098 · March 27, 2012, 10:26am

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Thanks for the advice :)

lethal_kamikaze · March 27, 2012, 4:05pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Peace my21098,

If you need any help/assistance plz do let us know :)

firenze · March 27, 2012, 7:13pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

she is right. most of the sex workers on bus stops, schools/colleges gates, main chowks work under burqas..

Pakiiza · March 27, 2012, 10:00pm

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Bridal dress dilemma - Which one???

Everybody quotes that hadith, but fails to realize that Hadith is a weak hadith, Abu Dawud (May Allah reward him for his efforts) himself admitted that the hadith is a weak hadith and the second narrator is missing, Khalid b. Duraik did not see ‘Aisha (RA)’. And we can not and should not base our rulings on weak Hadith

The full verse is 'They should not reveal their ZEENAT (Bodily Beauty and Beautifaction, such as jewelry) ILLA MA ZAHARA MINHA (Except for what is apparent of it) ‘It’ here means ZEENAT

So women should not reveal their zeenat except for what is apparent of their zeenat. Now whatever is apparent must also be something that if uncovered wouldnt give an immodest look right? Now this changes from culture to culture, in Afghanistan, only the eyes can be apparent and I have no problem with it, if I was in Afghanistan I would have said covering the whole body is fard except eyes cause anything else if uncovered would give an immodest look. In KSA only face and hands can be apparent, if I was in KSA and if I was debating from KSA’s perspective, I would have agreed that covering the hair and everything else except the face and hands is fard, because anything else if uncovered would seem immodest. In Pakistan, if hair are uncovered, they wouldnt cause much fitna (Or atleast not in my society) and wouldnt make a woman ‘BESAHARAM’ ‘IMMODEST’, so they can be apparent. You get my point bro?

The part where Allah says ‘cast their outer garments over their persons’ is YUDNNENA ALAIHINNA MIN JALABIBIHINNA ‘Near/Wrap Over Themselves from their Outer garments’ but people forget to read the next part, which says ZALIKA ADNA AINYORAFNA FALA YUZAIN which is ‘So they may be recognized and not be molested/annoyed/disturbed’. Now lets analyze, why did Allah order the use of extra outer garments? So woman may be recognized and not be molested, now the main objective here is to be recognized, look at the Wisdom behind the verse, SO THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED, Allah wants you to be recognized. Now recognized as what? To understand this, lets see what we are NOT supposed to be recognized as: Allah says Recognized and NOT BE MOLESTED/ANNOYED. Who are the woman who get molested? Yes, Prostitutes and Sex Slaves. Now what is the opposite of a Prostitute/Sex Slave? Yes, A decent free respectable woman. So Allah wants you to be recognized as respectable woman. Now in 7th Arabia, the use of a Jilbab (The special outer garment at their time, a very loose large cloak/or piece of cloth) was their way of being differentiated from porstitutes and being recognized as free woman. This does not at all mean that in every era and time this will be the case, in fact where I live edited, the town where I live in, a burqa is actually worn by women when they want to do some sort of evil act, believe me, so this verse means that woman have to wear clothes which according to wear they live, would differentiate them from Prostitutes and give them a respectable look. You get my point bro?

The final verse you mentioned is acutally Surah Ahzab verse 33, the thing here is, this verse is taken out of context, (Im literally sighing so deeply while typing this, it saddens me so much how people change Allah’s words) here is the verse with the previous verse as well:

33:32 O Consorts of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear (Allah), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just 33:33 And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Apostle. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

Now you can see that this verse is specifically for the wives of the Prophet, and they are not like other woman, thus what Allah has ordered for them and not ordered for other women means that its only for them and not for other women. Even then this does not mean that they had to stay in their houses 24/7 they were permitted to go outside, just not too much and only for a good reason.

I hope you got what I mean, and please remain in a calm mood

The verse you are saying about,yes this is from surrah Ahzab,Ihave taken it from this site you can see
Pardah/Hijab according to Qur’an and Hadees | meSmarty

Ji bilkul Prophets wives were permitted to go outside,aisa kisny kaha ky wo 24/7 ghr main hi rhtin thin.

I dont know what you are thinking about pardah,kia ap Alim-e- deen hain?
main just simple way main poch rhi not rudely:)

psyah · March 28, 2012, 5:11am

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

Peace my21098

You might find this article somewhat helpful in your further studies:

The Veil In Islam - SunniPath Library - Articles

The second link is the Arabic lexical root for the word i`jtajarat … it takes the meaning:

wrap, drape, loosely define - wrinkly, hard, dry and twisted, covered - i.e. although these are the meanings in the lexicon it appears that the English “from head to toe” in the article is derived differently.

my21098 · March 28, 2012, 8:34am

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

ahem..Im a 'HE' :)

werewolf · March 28, 2012, 9:31am

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

my21098:

You dont get what I mean, what Im saying is that Allah says 'Do not reveal their beauty except for what is apparent', now the term 'what is apparent' changes from society to society. In India, if a woman wears sari, then her belly is apparent, and she wont be considered immodest but if she wears those same clothes in Arabia, then she would considered very very very immodest. You get what I mean? Like Allah tells us to use our stregnth to the utmost of our power and our best horses in war (in Surah Anfaal verse 60), now we in this era have planes and tanks, does this mean we should stop using planes and tanks and start using horses? Of course not, that verse is to be taken metaphorically in out era. Allah orders women to cover their Bosom with their Khimar, the order in this verse is not for the use of the khimar but the covering of the bosom with another piece of cloth over the shirts (such as Dobatta in Pakistan). Covering of the hair was an arab tradition, they were doing this before this verse even came down. It was their fashion, it was a way to protect oneself from the sunlight and it was a sign of modesty. In their era uncovering the hair was a very immodest act so much that even if the bosom was left uncovered, the hair should be covered. Then Allah revealed that NO your bosom must be covered. In our society uncovering the Hair is not immodest at all. Go through the book I have written. Allah has not specified the covering of the hair.

If you say that modesty comes from the society then where lies the "SUNNAH" and "HADITH"? These fashions of saris revealing their bosoms was in fact the ways of the non-Muslims and was adopted by the Muslims of India too. Dancing on the streets is very common in Hindu marriages in India and is not considered immodest in their religion and society so do you suggest that Muslim women in India should do the same?

Our religion does not restrict us to use horses and swords but the rules for modesty have been clearly laid out for all the nations to follow. Roaming in bikinis is not a factor of awe in western countries so do you suggest Muslim women should follow the same living there? Using facilities is not prohibited in Islam but misusing them is certainly not appreciated.

I think the perception that one should follow the culture of the society has mistaken people to amend their religions.

psyah · March 28, 2012, 10:28am

Re: Is covering the head really FARD? Or just an Interpratation? Convince me

werewolf:

If you say that modesty comes from the society then where lies the "SUNNAH" and "HADITH"? These fashions of saris revealing their bosoms was in fact the ways of the non-Muslims and was adopted by the Muslims of India too. Dancing on the streets is very common in Hindu marriages in India and is not considered immodest in their religion and society so do you suggest that Muslim women in India should do the same?

Our religion does not restrict us to use horses and swords but the rules for modesty have been clearly laid out for all the nations to follow. Roaming in bikinis is not a factor of awe in western countries so do you suggest Muslim women should follow the same living there? Using facilities is not prohibited in Islam but misusing them is certainly not appreciated.

I think the perception that one should follow the culture of the society has mistaken people to amend their religions.

Peace werewolf

It appears you didn't read the pdf document that my21098 had prepared. He didn't argue for following the culture you live in per se ... he has prescribed a minimum covering which is based on "his interpretation" of the minimum. Thereafter he argues there is a certain amount of freedom for interpreting the dress code as long as the minimum is maintained.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with him, but I do believe he is talking about an issue that is worth the extra effort and rethink. I feel his main point is about making hijab something that is exhibited rather than something that is worn. He argues that the "head covering" or "khimar" in particular is not part of the minimum requirements, except when it applies to over the bosoms, i.e. the head being covered by it was incidental due to the fact that it was a head covering before the ayat was revealed. And that the mandate in the verse regarding the khimar is about the bosoms and not the head itself.

Some merit may exist in that due to the idea that the private parts do not include the head/hair ... but rather the areas associated with sex and lower animals functions.

This is why I suggested he undertakes a proper study of the subject rather than using his "brain" as a reference, but to be fair to the topic at hand and present both sides of the argument and disclose his conclusions accordingly.