Is bin Laden the 'Mahdi'?Some Muslim followers believe he is prophesied ...

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Akhi, can you give me the hadith about the Mahdi and return of Isa. Jazakallahkhayr
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**Praise be to Allaah.

There are saheeh ahaadeeth that indicate that the Mahdi (peace be upon him) will appear at the end of time. He is one of the signs of the Hour. Among these ahaadeeth are the following:

  1. Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri reported that the Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "At the end of the time of my ummah, the Mahdi will appear. Allaah will grant him rain, the earth will bring forth its fruits, he will give a lot of money, cattle will increase and the ummah will become great. He will rule for seven or eight years. (Mustadrak al-Haakim, 4/557-558; he said: this is a hadeeth whose isnaad is saheeh, although it was not reported by al-Bukhaari and Muslim. Al-Dhahabi agreed with him, and al-Albaani said: this is a saheeh sanad, and its men are thiqaat (trustworthy), Silsilat al-ahaadeeth al-saheehah, vol. 2, p. 336, hadeeth 771)

  2. ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: ‘The Mahdi is one of us, a member of my family. Allaah will guide him in a single night.’" (Musnad Ahmad, 2/58, hadeeth 645, edited by Ahmad al-Shaakir, who said: its isnaad is saheeh; Sunan Ibn Maajah, 2/1367. This hadeeth was also classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’ al-Sagheer, 6735). Ibn Katheer said: "This means that Allaah will forgive him, grant him help, inspire him and guide him, when he was not like this before." (Al-Nihaayah, al-Fitan wa’l-Malaahim, 1/29; edited by Taha Zayni).

  3. Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: ‘The Mahdi is of my lineage, with a high forehead and a long, thin, curved nose. He will fill the earth with fairness and justice as it was filled with oppression and injustice, and he will rule for seven years.’" (Sunan Abi Dawud, Kitaab al-Mahdi, 11/375, hadeeth 4265; Mustadrak al-Haakim, 4/557; he said: this is a saheeh hadeeth according to the conditions of Muslim, although it was not reported by al-Bukhaari and Muslim. See also Saheeh al-Jaami, 6736).

  4. Umm Salamah said: "I heard the Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) say: ‘The Mahdi is of my lineage and family, from the descendants of Faatimah.’" (Sunan Abu Dawud, 11/373; Sunan Ibn Maajah. 2/1368. Al-Albaani said that it is saheeh in Saheeh al-Jaami, 6734)

  5. Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: ‘‘Eesaa ibn Maryam will descend, and their leader the Mahdi will say, "Come and lead us in prayer," but he will say, "No, one of them should lead them as an honour to this ummah from Allaah."’" The version narrated by Muslim says: "… Then ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam (Peace be upon him) will descend and their leader will say, ‘Come and lead us in prayer,’ but he will say, ‘No, some of you are leaders over others as an honour from Allaah to this ummah.’" (Reported by Muslim, 225)

  6. Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allaah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "He is one of us, behind whom ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam will pray." (Reported by Abi Na’eem in Akhbaar al-Mahdi. Al-Albaani said it is saheeh; see al-Jaami’ al-Sagheer, 5/219, hadeeth 5796).

  7. ‘Abdullaah ibn Mas’ood reported that the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "The world will not come to an end until the Arabs are ruled by a man from my family whose name will be the same as mine." (Musnad Ahmad, 5/199, hadeeth 3573. Another version says: "… whose name is the same as mine and whose father’s name is the same as my father’s." Sunan Abi Dawud, 11/370).

The ahaadeeth concerning the appearance of the Mahdi reach the level of Tawaatur in meaning (tawaatur refers to a hadeeth which was narrated by so many people through so many isnaads that it is inconceivable that they could all have agreed on a lie). The imaams and scholars of this ummah have stated this, and a few of their comments are quoted below:

  1. Al-Haafiz Abu’l-Hasan al-Aabiri said: "The mutawaatir reports from the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) describing the Mahdi are very many. They state that the Mahdi will be of his family, that he will rule for seven years, that he will fill the earth with justice, that ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam will emerge and help him to kill the Dajjaal, and that he will lead this ummah in prayer and ‘Eesaa will pray behind him."

  2. Muhammad al-Barzanji said, in his book al-Ishaa’ah li Ashraat al-Saa’ah: "The major signs and the signs that will be immediately followed by the Hour: these signs are many, of which the Mahdi will be the first. Know that the ahaadeeth that have been narrated about him in various reports are numerous." He also said: "You know that the ahaadeeth which speak of the Mahdi, his appearance at the end of time, and his lineage and descent from the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) via Faatimah reach the level of tawaatur in meaning, so there is no point in denying them."

  3. Al-‘Allaamah Muhammad al-Safaareeni said: "There are so many reports which speak of the appearance of the Mahdi that they reach the level of tawaatur in meaning; they are very popular among the scholars of Sunnah and have become part of their faith." Then he quotes a number of ahaadeeth and reports about the appearance of the Mahdi and the names of the Sahaabah from whom they were narrated: "Many reports were narrated from the Sahaabah whose names were mentioned and others whose names were not mentioned, may Allaah be pleased with them all, and from the Taabi’een after them, all of which proves that this is definitive knowledge. Belief in the appearance of the Mahdi is obligatory, as it has been confirmed by the scholars and is listed among the beliefs of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah."

  4. Al-‘Allaamah al-Mujtahid al-Shawkaani said: "The ahaadeeth that we have come across that speak of the awaited Mahdi reach the level of tawaatur, including fifty saheeh, hasan and da’eef munjabar ahaadeeth. There are mutawaatir without a doubt; indeed they are more mutawaatir than others, according to all the standards of usool. There are also many reports from the Sahaabah that speak about the Mahdi and that reach the level of marfoo’, so there is no room for individual opinions in such an issue."

  5. Al-‘Allaamah al-Shaykh Siddeeq Hasan Khaan said: "Even though there are different versions of reports concerning the Mahdi, they are so many that they reach the level of tawaatur in meaning. They are to be found in al-Sunan and other books of Islam."

  6. Al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ja’far al-Kattaani said: "The conclusion is that the ahaadeeth narrated concerning the Mahdi are mutawaatir, as are the ahaadeeth concerning the Dajjaal and the descent of ‘Eesaa ibn Maryam, upon whom be peace." (See Ashraat al-Saa’ah by Yoosuf ibn ‘Abdullaah al-Waabil, pp. 195-203).

You should be aware that some liars have fabricated ahaadeeth about the Mahdi, and others have even claimed to be he, or that he belongs to a group other than Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah. Some of these "false mahdis" have tried to deceive the slaves of Allaah for some worldly gain and to distort the picture of Islaam. Some have started movements and revolutions and gathered those people and supporters whom they were able to deceive. Then they were destroyed, and their lies and falsehood were exposed. None of this affects the belief of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah in the Mahdi, upon whom be peace, and that he will undoubtedly appear and rule the earth in accordance with Islamic Sharee’ah. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com)**
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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
^^ Well, the argument now is, is America telling the truth, or is Shaikh Osama?

Hmmm...Now let me see, on one hand, we have a person who has dedicated his life for justice and has left millions to aid and help the Muslims around the world with little regard to his own life...

On the other we have the American administration which has told lies left and right and in the end was found out to be after oil for which it has killed millions of innocents and says that Shaikh Osama did it...

Looking at the track history of both parties, I think I'll go with the most honest opinion of all...FOX news...Osama is guilty...
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Assuming you're being facetious I'd say that you think Osama is not "guilty". Thats good. I hope you stick to that position.

Please do elevate him to hero status now that we've established that he's no more than a wrongly accused man and not some hellraiser who singlehandedly crushed the might of amreeka.

(ofcourse "hero" is in context of Mahdi-lite or even Mahdi..he may be a very charitable person and everything..)

Please bear in mind that I hate imperialism like every other joe, but tempting as it may be, the Messiah-Rome analogy just doesnt apply to a man who may either have murdered hundreds of people or done precious little else..(to Rome..that is..)

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*Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *

Firstly, which part of the Prophet's (saw) name has 'Osama bin laden' in it? According to the hadith, the name will be exactly the same including the Qunniyat etc.
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Sorry I was not implying anything, when I said OBLs name has our prophets(saw) name in it, do you have the hadith wich says his name will be exactly alike.

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Secondly, i believe the hadith is authentic.
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Which one, the one regarding the "name" or the "eclipse", because when I said that the hadith was weak I was refering to the 'lunar eclipse' hadith.

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Thirldy, Do u believe Mahdi (as) and bin laden are the same?

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If you are asking me then no they are two different people.

<<quote:Originally posted by #let uz chat#:
i believe the text although brief nevertheless explains it all!!!

Imam Ali bin Umar D?r-e-Qutni states in his collection of ahadith:

My Ustaad Abu Saeed Istakhri narrates from his Ustaad
Muhammad bin Abdullah, who narrates from his Ustaad
Ubaid bin Ya?eesh, and he narrates from Yunus bin Bukair,
and he from Amar bin Shamir, and he from Jaabir who
narrates that Muhammad bin Ali said:

'Verily, for our Mahdi there are two signs which have never as yet concurred since the creation of the heavens and earth; first is the eclipse of the moon on the first night of Ramadan, and second is the eclipse of the sun during the middle of that same Ramadan.

This (concurrence of a solar and lunar eclipse) has never happened since Allah created the heavens and earth.'

hence bint laden isn't the mahdi and i don't think we will live to c the mahdi in our lifetime!!!!!!!

interistingly this has happened this year..........moon eclipse on 14 of ramadan and solar eclipse on 29 of ramadan .......(date may vary ) ..... >>


And again
The lunar eclipse occurred after sunset on the 13th of Ramazan (March 21, 1894) and the solar eclipse occurred on Friday, the 28th of Ramazan (April 6, 1894). Apart from the almanacs, there was mention of the eclipses in the Indian newspapers of the time Azad and Civil and Military Gazette. Even now, the dates (of the Christian era) for these eclipses can be confirmed from Oppolzer’s Canon of Eclipses by Prof. T. R Von Oppolzer, Dover Publications New York, 1962. And Nautical Almanac, London of 1894. The calculations based on the position of the moon show that the lunar dates of the eclipses correspond to the 13th and the 28th of Ramazan.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by johnd: *
<<quote:Originally posted by #let uz chat#:
i believe the text although brief nevertheless explains it all!!!

Imam Ali bin Umar D?r-e-Qutni states in his collection of ahadith:

My Ustaad Abu Saeed Istakhri narrates from his Ustaad
Muhammad bin Abdullah, who narrates from his Ustaad
Ubaid bin Ya?eesh, and he narrates from Yunus bin Bukair,
and he from Amar bin Shamir, and he from Jaabir who
narrates that Muhammad bin Ali said:

'Verily, for our Mahdi there are two signs which have never as yet concurred since the creation of the heavens and earth; first is the eclipse of the moon on the first night of Ramadan, and second is the eclipse of the sun during the middle of that same Ramadan.

This (concurrence of a solar and lunar eclipse) has never happened since Allah created the heavens and earth.'

hence bint laden isn't the mahdi and i don't think we will live to c the mahdi in our lifetime!!!!!!!

interistingly this has happened this year..........moon eclipse on 14 of ramadan and solar eclipse on 29 of ramadan .......(date may vary ) ..... >>


And again
The lunar eclipse occurred after sunset on the 13th of Ramazan (March 21, 1894) and the solar eclipse occurred on Friday, the 28th of Ramazan (April 6, 1894). Apart from the almanacs, there was mention of the eclipses in the Indian newspapers of the time Azad and Civil and Military Gazette. Even now, the dates (of the Christian era) for these eclipses can be confirmed from Oppolzer’s Canon of Eclipses by Prof. T. R Von Oppolzer, Dover Publications New York, 1962. And Nautical Almanac, London of 1894. The calculations based on the position of the moon show that the lunar dates of the eclipses correspond to the 13th and the 28th of Ramazan.
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so brother...what is ur point.....?what do the lunar predictions say when will this happen.......

Ravage is wasting all his energy on the assumption that osama may be involved in 9-11.......ravage why dont u see the thing otherway round......stop watching CNN

<< so brother...what is ur point.....?what do the lunar predictions say when will this happen....... >>

Point..... You have to open your eyes, brain and (never Mind) see if you can find a point. bb use your brain, try it.

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*Originally posted by johnd: *
<< so brother...what is ur point.....?what do the lunar predictions say when will this happen....... >>

Point..... You have to open your eyes, brain and (never Mind) see if you can find a point. bb use your brain, try it.
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No need to be defensive...He is just asking if you have any astronomical predictions when this will happen? The Eclipses...

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*Originally posted by bao bihari: *

so brother...what is ur point.....?what do the lunar predictions say when will this happen.......

Ravage is wasting all his energy on the assumption that osama may be involved in 9-11.......ravage why dont u see the thing otherway round......stop watching CNN
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DONT assume anything on what I believe. You dont know that.

I started with the assumption behind certain posters glorifying him to progidous heights and once i did blow that particular possibility to bits as a murderous assualt deserving criminal trial each of you immediately starts saying he actually did nothing worth talking about.

The least you people can have is intellectual honesty enough to stick to one point and not immediately deny things soon as you're cornered. I guess thats what Osama did, so yeah if he's your hero, then maybe you would do that. not me.

Jez you're the second person who's told me to stop watching propaganda when you know diddly squat about who i am, what i read, adn what my opinions are.

stick to the debate and bring on any points you have.

My argument:

  • if he did the act, then as my previous posts say, hes a murderous criminal who acted in Islam's name in completely unislamic ways and is in the same league as corrupe arab leaders who have brought our downfall.

  • if he didnt, the he doesnt deserve this thread. he doesnt deserve minions glorifying his name, nobody even fecking needs to talk about him.

dont assume anything about my position. stick to the debate and thats IT.

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*Originally posted by ravage: *

  • if he didnt, the he doesnt deserve this thread. he doesnt deserve minions glorifying his name, nobody even fecking needs to talk about him.

IT.
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He deserves this and more...

Why? Because he left the comfort of his millionaire status to fight for Muslims who are neither his family nor his relatives despite the odds, he fights for justice, for freedom and safety of the Muslims...He is the figure, the emblem of absolute selfless altruism...

What can you do for your fellow brother-in-faith?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *

He deserves this and more...

Why? Because he left the comfort of his millionaire status to fight for Muslims who are neither his family nor his relatives despite the odds, he fights for justice, for freedom and safety of the Muslims...He is the figure, the emblem of absolute selfless altruism...

What can you do for your fellow brother-in-faith?
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Lajawab, clearly that is not the context in which he is glorified.

And even if so, what exactly has his "fighting" been so far? As far as I know, apart from 911 he is associated with one bombing at the scale of Ramsey Yousef (pay attention to my words). He is clearly glorified more than that. Apart from that his "fighting" has been confined to issuing statements that arouse the american public at times when Bush needs public support for undertaking big missions or when big missions are failing, which seems to be to be counterproductive.

As for altruism I know for a fact that he hasnt done squat in comparison to say..edhi..both in terms of financial impact to the Muslim world and in terms of ACTUAL uplifting of the Muslim world. Why doesnt he get a squats worth of praise in comparison to this hermit?

"safety" of the Muslims?

over 20,000..maybe 50,000 if you count combatants Muslims have been killed because this man continues to be in hiding.

as for "freedom". two muslim countries have been occupied since him.

if he is so self sacrificing, if he left millions for our sake, then for the love of God why doesnt the bloke turn himself in?? phir hota woh mujahid.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *

interistingly this has happened this year..........moon eclipse on 14 of ramadan and solar eclipse on 29 of ramadan .......(date may vary ) .....
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The thing you are looking for, its NOT that one. This way, its happen MANY times before. Wasalam

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
If bin laden had considered himself the 'Mahdi', he would have declared as such by now. Since he hasn't, i presume he's still waiting, just like the rest of us.

Also, he cannot be Imam Mahdi, for several reason, one of them being that his full name and title would have been exactly the same as the Prophet (saw). 'Osama bin laden' would not be even part of his name.

Finally, from what i've read, there will be 3 revolts, the yamani, the sufiyani and the khorasani. I believe bin laden is the yamani, predicted to revolt just before the coming of the Imam(as).

ps>As someone already said, the eclipse sign has already occurred this year. So have many others, but itz interesting to see 'US military intelligence' involved. Dont they have other things to do?
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Osama and his kind of people EVEN dont believe in Imam Mehdi(AS).

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*Originally posted by inuit: *
Osama and his kind of people EVEN dont believe in Imam Mehdi(AS).
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Interesting.......any refrence to support the theory?.....

bao? lajawab? no counter arguments?

i still wait. will check in later. AH.

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*Originally posted by ravage: *
bao? lajawab? no counter arguments?

i still wait. will check in later. AH.
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inshallah will returm later at night...........wait till then....

BTW with osama ......in jihad for almost 24 years now..... and thousand of MUSLIMS consider him as mujahid...is'nt this enough for america to have his fear......osama is one of those few personalities to stand upright in front of america........he has left a wealthy life for jihad.......what else do u want.....

open ur eyes....

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*Originally posted by ravage: *
"safety" of the Muslims?

over 20,000..maybe 50,000 if you count combatants Muslims have been killed because this man continues to be in hiding.

as for "freedom". two muslim countries have been occupied since him.
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I presume the people who are carpet bombing a nation because of this man, have no sense of responsibility? FYI, Those countries would have been bombed whether Osama existed or not. They just needed a pretext.

Take Iraq as an example, first we heard saddam could attack us within 45 minutes, ok that wasnt true so then he was suppose to have material to make such weapons, they werent found either, then finally, Saddam was a brutal man and Iraq needs our democracy. I dont think they could give two hoots on either. Next it'll be Syria, lets wait to see what they can come up with.

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[if he is so self sacrificing, if he left millions for our sake, then for the love of God why doesnt the bloke turn himself in?? phir hota woh mujahid.
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1) Hes not doing it for 'our' sake. His reasons are his own. He doesnt represent the muslim world.

2) Even if he gave himself up, that wouldn't stop the nations being invaded and millions killed.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *

I presume the people who are carpet bombing a nation because of this man, have no sense of responsibility? FYI, Those countries would have been bombed whether Osama existed or not. They just needed a pretext.

Take Iraq as an example, first we heard saddam could attack us within 45 minutes, ok that wasnt true so then he was suppose to have material to make such weapons, they werent found either, then finally, Saddam was a brutal man and Iraq needs our democracy. I dont think they could give two hoots on either. Next it'll be Syria, lets wait to see what they can come up with.

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this topic isnt about the morality of the merikans. You will hear no opposition from me when you criticise american imperialism and their methods.

But the fact that they needed a pretext is whats important. Bush, according to his advisor, from day One needed a reason to invade Iraq. Likewise Afghanistan. Neither of these countries could or would have been invaded, because to launch a full scale war you need public support, you need a chunk in the budget.

911, and the WOT provided both of these.

Afghanistan atleast, is a direct consequence of Osama not turning himself in.

Now it might be unfair to judge a man for not being a hero, but that isnt the case being put forward here. The case being made here is that he IS a hero. Well then if he is, and if he was obviously in a position to keep a country from being invaded, possibly two, by simply turning himself in, why didnt he? Hero choro, koi zara sa patriotic banda kar deta.

You're right, the WOT has probably picked up enough steam to sustain itself on its own now, even if Osama does turn himself in. But that doesnt change the fact that should he do that, it will blow a big chunk out of the argument for the necessity of the WOT.

Especially if he does it on his own terms, and not on theirs.

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1) Hes not doing it for 'our' sake. His reasons are his own. He doesnt represent the muslim world.

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i certainly dont think he's acting in 'our' interests. But there are a bunch of people who do.

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2) Even if he gave himself up, that wouldn't stop the nations being invaded and millions killed.
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Arguable. It would certainly make it a lot more difficult for 'merika to argue domestically for the case to invade countries. I again cite afghanistan as a country that was invaded solely on the pretext of Osama.

You're right, the will to knuckle everyone in sight does exist, but even they need a reason.

If they didnt Pakistan would be amongst the first to be obliterated from sight.

Bao

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BTW with osama ......in jihad for almost 24 years now..... and thousand of MUSLIMS consider him as mujahid...is'nt this enough for america to have his fear......osama is one of those few personalities to stand upright in front of america........he has left a wealthy life for jihad.......what else do u want.....

open ur eyes....

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I presume your 24 years start from the Russia-Afghan war. I guess you realise that at that time he was using american bullets and american armour. They had no reason to be afraid of him then.

He may have had valiant reasons to go into Afghanistan, but so did others. Abdullah Shah Masood was a legendary jihadi. Did you venerate him? Countless names have been forgotten since that war, why would you only consider Osama your hero? Possibly because of his alleged connection with 911? Which ofcourse you say he didnt do.

Osama ney kuch nahi nuqsaan puhnchaya amreeka ka. Read humhaipakistani's post carefully. they need a pretext to invade muslim countries. Osama is that pretext. no more, no less.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ravage: *
**Bao
*

I presume your 24 years start from the Russia-Afghan war. A*I guess you realise that at that time he was using american bullets and american armour.* They had no reason to be afraid of him then.

He may have had valiant reasons to go into Afghanistan, but so did others. B**Abdullah Shah Masood was a legendary jihadi. Did you venerate him? **Countless names have been forgotten since that war, why would you only consider Osama your hero? Possibly because of his alleged connection with 911? Which ofcourse you say he didnt do.

Osama ney kuch nahi nuqsaan puhnchaya amreeka ka. Read humhaipakistani's post carefully. they need a pretext to invade muslim countries. Osama is that pretext. no more, no less.
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A-Osama stil is using american bullets... this time using it for amreeeecans.. :D
osama is feared by west as he oppose thier siege of harmain.....he is working against amrican interst before the jihad was over against russia when iraq invaded kuwait......
B-yes he was.......but then why he after afghan jihad...he seek helpe from russians and french.......just to oppose islamic rule.....

i think i've lost interest.

have a nice life.