is all sort of doodling haram?

hareem01 · July 7, 2009, 2:37pm

what is wrong with how I talk? Did I insult you, mock you? What do you want me to do when people say things which has no basis in Islam and then attribute it to Islam - sit back and have a cup of cofee and say everything is just fine? allhamdulillah, I have geerah for my deen and so should you! Not trying to be arrogant because everything comes from Allah and He bestows us wisdom, knowledge, guides us to haqq.

If you think this is harsh then you should refelct upon your statements and magntitude of those statements. I am not forcing you to adopt certain views but I do ask Allah that may He guide you to haqq, ameen. I have only advised you to not say things without knowledge and that is all and by no mean I am claiming that I am perfect. Whatever you do is your fair. But be ready for harsh cricitsm if you distort Islamic teachings or issue your personal fatawas. We are obliged to ask people of knowledge, so let us refer to them.

and I ask you and Allah to forgive me for unneccasry comments and unfair harshness.

because that is not a complete picture, is it? The hadith is talking about complete picture because that is immatating the creation of Allah. This is how the scholars have understood it:
1 - The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The image is the head; if the head is cut off, there is no image.” Narrated by al-Ismaa’eeli in his Mu’jam from the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Abbaas and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah no. 1921 and in Saheeh al-Jaami’ no. 3864.

The majority of fuqaha’ are of the view that if something is cut off from an image without which it could no longer live, then it is not a haraam image. For a detailed discussion of this issue and the views of other madhhabs, see Ahkaam al-Tasweer fi’l-Fiqh al-Islami, pp. 224-240.

Source: Islam Question and Answer - Ruling on drawing smiley faces when chatting on the internet

2 - Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: With regard to dolls made of cloth, where the image does not have clear features, even though it has limbs, a head and neck, but there are no eyes or nose, there is nothing wrong with that, because this is not imitating the creation of Allaah. Source: ]Islam Question and Answer](Is Drawing Faces Prohibited? - Islam Question & Answer)

3 - Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem said: But if the image is originally incomplete, such as a head-and-shoulders picture, etc., and there is removed from the picture that without which is could not live, then it may be understood from the comments of many of the fuqahaa’ that this is permissible, especially if there is a need for such partial pictures. Source: Islam Question and Answer - Ruling on making partial image in cases of necessity
subhaanAllah, how did you reach this conclusion? Do you know my in and out? when did I say that fathers can be harsh to their children in this matter? khayr, I care less about what you say about me. But I won’t tolerate people distorting Islam when they got no basis for it.

Muslims are suppose to be balanced and not extreme when applying the rulings nor extreme by rejecting them and calling the followers strict/extreme. What do people think Islam is: a bed of roses?

waAllahu A’lam (and Allah knows best)

all of above is what your scholars think of different ahadith…and i don’t agree with them.
islam is hard to follow and people like you make it even hard.

hubal_watan · July 7, 2009, 3:09pm

Re: is all sort of doodling haram?

Most Noodles are halal but always check the packet for ingredients

hareem01 · July 7, 2009, 3:40pm

It’s not Noodles we’re talking about, it’s doodles.

hubal_watan · July 7, 2009, 3:58pm

I know but still you ought to check the ingredients. The have these prohibited E nos and also ingredients made from pig fat are haram

hubal_watan · July 7, 2009, 3:58pm

Re: is all sort of doodling haram?

the list can be easily obtained from your local mosque in case you guys dont have the E list

AllahkaBanda · July 7, 2009, 4:54pm

that is fine and as I said before you are responsible for your affairs. Islam is not bed of roses that it should be easy and you should get everything without doing anything, nor anyone is making it hard to somehow suite their agendas or to gain something, wa auodbillah. Islamic rulings are clear and by definition Muslims are obliged to follow them and if they think it is hard then they should know that the reward for obeying Allah is great and nothing is easy.

The command (ahadith) and understanding of scholars is clear - whether you accept or reject it is your personal choice and you are responsible and accountable for what you do. I did not make these scholars at home that somehow they became "my" scholars. The scholars of Islam are hujjah for everyone and there should be an Islamic evidence to not accept understanding of certain scholars and not just because we do not like them or their understanding is "strict/hard" or because they are not "my" scholars. These kinds of issues have deep roots within our methodology and we start coming up with "my/yours" scholars due to our hold onto a hizbiyyah. May Allah Ta'ala save us all from such ta'ssub and partisanship, ameen

COLD_FIRE · July 7, 2009, 5:14pm

Yes, that's a very good advice on NOODLES.

hubal_watan · July 7, 2009, 5:20pm

Its entirely upto you. I have done my duty .

Jazakallah

a-town_boy · July 7, 2009, 7:30pm

:nono: they r not hujjah for everyone… maybe for many but not for all..

hareem01 · July 7, 2009, 9:52pm

Re: is all sort of doodling haram?

albani and alike aren't even scholars......or perhaps the self declared scholars.

COLD_FIRE · July 7, 2009, 9:57pm

Watan bhai… zara google per doodle ko search to kero aik baar. Bas AIK baar meri khatir.

psyah · July 8, 2009, 6:38am

Re: is all sort of doodling haram?

Peace All

There are a variety of rulings on making images the general position is that they are haram, there are specifics that down grade them to reprehensible and even acceptable, but these are specifics somewhat talked about in this thread. The lack of direct prohibition with regards to images as with music presents a reliance on the fiqh rulings of contemporary scholars.

AllahkaBanda · July 8, 2009, 1:24pm

lol, whatever flows your boat. yeh, even Ahmad, Shafi'i, Malik, Abu Hanifa (may Allah have mercy on them) are not scholars or what about Ali (radiAllahu anhu) because they all said playing chess is haraam.

hareem01 · July 8, 2009, 1:33pm

if pictures are haram then why don't those scholars remove their pictures from the internet? There are several pictures of albani and other saudis have been circulating on web.

AllahkaBanda · July 8, 2009, 3:42pm

^so you ignored my earlier comment about the 4 Imams of Ahlus Sunnah and a Khalifa ar-rashid. According to you, if a scholar does not issue a fatwa which pleases your nafs then he is not a scholar or “your” scholar. However, due to ta’ssub and partisanship only the saudi scholars will feel the heat of your fatawa. Like it is going to have any affect on their virtue and knowledge.

so you are saying pictures are not haraam? Is that what you have been trying to say from the start? And how do you know that Saudi scholars and shaykh albani asked awam to take their pictures and post them on web? yeh, Shaykh albani (rahimahullah) should come out of his grave to remove his pictures on the web, which are POSTED BY AWAM. Not surprised to hear this from you because in sufi world anything is possible.

and guess what, the traditional scholars (according to your definition), who got ijaazas and are not “self proclaimed” scholars like Shaykh albani or other saudi scholars, have to say:Playing Chess
Playing chess or cards: what is the reasoning behind its impressibility
Shaykh Faraz Rabbni says:The position taken by most scholars of the Subcontinent, and many great Arab scholars is that photographs fall under the rubric of taswir (picture-making) of living creatures and humans, which has been** explicitly forbidden in over 20 hadiths. This is the position of my main teachers, including Sheikh Nuh Keller.** This is certainly the more cautious position, as a reading of the hadiths on the issue, which are extremely stern, would indicate.

Source: Shaykhs & Pictures?
And here he mentions that drawn pictures, which are missing limbs, do not fall under the category of prohibition - and that is exactly what I said or “my” scholars:What is strongly impermissible is to draw the entire human body with all its details, or the face and neck with all its details (except when necessary for immediate educational purposes and the like.

As for drawing an outline of the human body, without detailed features, and labeling the various parts, or drawing the details of a particular part (such as the heart), this is permitted, and this is not disliked if for a reasonable purpose (such as education).

Source: Drawing Pictures for Educational Purposes
Please kindly issue your fatwa on Faraz Rabbni and Nuh Keller - the traditional scholars with ijazzas.

Lastly, an attitude of a Muslim is that he accepts the commands of Allah and does not make haraam halal or vice versa. He may fall into an error by not obeying the commands but at least he does not say that such command does not exist when there is clear evidence for it. Denying the rulings of Allah due to whims and desires is kufr. The ahadith are clear on prohibiton of drawing the pictures of animated beings and scholars have further explained the fiqh (i.e., is it permissible for education purposes or such). But again those who follow the path of Iblees will always come up with rubbish arguments to reject the rulings of Allah.

may Allah Ta’ala guide us all and keep us on haqq, ameen

hareem01 · July 8, 2009, 5:26pm

AllahkaBanda:

^And here he mentions that drawn pictures, which are missing limbs, do not fall under the category of prohibition - and that is exactly what I said or “my” scholars:
What is strongly impermissible is to draw the entire human body with all its details, or the face and neck with all its details (except when necessary for immediate educational purposes and the like.

As for drawing an outline of the human body, without detailed features, and labeling the various parts, or drawing the details of a particular part (such as the heart), this is permitted, and this is not disliked if for a reasonable purpose (such as education).

Source: Drawing Pictures for Educational Purposes
Please kindly issue your fatwa on Faraz Rabbni and Nuh Keller - the traditional scholars with ijazzas.

According to shaykh Rabbani for educational purposes it is allowed to draw the details of face or body. I don’t think you said this anywhere in this thread or may be I missed something?

hareem01 · July 8, 2009, 5:35pm

Re: is all sort of doodling haram?

AKB

This is the reason for Chess being haram on Sunnipath:

The reason why chess and backgammon is prohibitively disliked is that, the one who becomes busy with playing these games is relieved from the stress and hardships of this world (m, meaning it is useless and endless entertainment that only waists time and relieves one from the pressing issues of life) and the pains and difficulties of the hereafter come to him. Therefore, it is unlawful and a grave sin, according to us, to play backgammon and chess. And in permitting it, is assisting Shaytan in his ploys against Islam and Muslims�. (Radd al-Muhtar ala al-Durr al-Mukhtar, 6/394).

On these basis everything including watching TV, playing Computer Games and Cricket etc is haram, do you agree with that?

hareem01 · July 8, 2009, 5:37pm

Re: is all sort of doodling haram?

This is what I find a balanced opinion regarding playing Chess. Have a read if you want.

http://www.zaytuna.org/seasonsjournal/seasons5/3-15_Chess%20in%20Light.pdf

tum-badtameez · July 8, 2009, 5:42pm

Re: is all sort of doodling haram?

i think we are going a little off topic

anyways ,i have come to some conclusion after checking it with someone

according to the hadeeth posted it makes it pretty clear that drawing human images is not allowed.Coming to my question which was about making imaginary characters, i think is since we arent sure as to if its haram or not.its better to leave something which is objectionable and has a doubt in.
The person i checked with said making any living thing is included in sin but except for educational purposes :k:

hareem01 · July 8, 2009, 6:07pm

Kindly remove your mood expression beneath your nick. :k: