Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
If she cannot get on open merit, she automatically becomes eligible for contesting qouta seat.
Wow. Pearls of wisdom. haha.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
sure...but so is the petition...!
I said that because you are expecting non-Muslims to study Islam and pretend to be Muslims.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
Everybody here is missing the point. Hafiz-e-Quran should be made compulsory for all medical schools in Pakistan. In fact all the institutions of higher education (engineering, commerce etc) should make it a required pre-qualification.
I have no sympathy for the girl. Every Pakistani should have the right to have a doctor who is a true alim even if he is not perfect medically. A brain surgeon or a cardiac surgeon needs all the divine help to do his operation. We don't want some altu-faltu without proper divine assistance cutting up people.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
Everybody here is missing the point. Hafiz-e-Quran should be made compulsory for all medical schools in Pakistan. In fact all the institutions of higher education (engineering, commerce etc) should make it a required pre-qualification.
I have no sympathy for the girl. Every Pakistani should have the right to have a doctor who is a true alim even if he is not perfect medically. A brain surgeon or a cardiac surgeon needs all the divine help to do his operation. We don't want some altu-faltu without proper divine assistance cutting up people.
Are you sure that the Quran shows you how to do brain surgery or engineering? I rather trust an altu-faltu rather than some hafiz to do an operation on me because that altu-faltu.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
^ I think it was sarcasm.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
I said that because you are expecting non-Muslims to study Islam and pretend to be Muslims.
i didnt say the Non-Muslim has to pretend to be a Muslim. i've mentioned it twice before that in Pakistan, Non-Muslims do take up Islamiat as a subject in schools.
Technically, this Christian girl Could do Hifz. (unless there is a religious decree telling her not to, but i'm not sure about that).
anyways, some explanation is in order here.
for Pakistanis, or Muslims in general, Hifz is something very dear to our hearts. A lot of us would love for our children to be Hafiz. However, many people have the concern that it will take too much time in early years of schooling, and therefore the child will not be able to catch up later on with "normal" school. Therefore, measures such as these are necessary to put in place so that people do not think that if their child will do Hifz, he will be left behind in his career.
further, as already mentioned, Hifz indicates skills in the child which are valuable in any career (ability to be devoted to a goal, memorization). The Hafiz has spent a valuable time of his life on this, and he should be rewarded in the admissions process. Same as for example, if you apply to a western college, they will value you if you've done sports/community work for example.
if people can be given extra marks for NCC (military training), or if minorities can be given special consideration (putting them in a separate pool of applicants through quotas), then why is giving extra marks to Hafiz unfair?
every country/culture/society promotes its values in education. i think in most countries it is necessary for the students to study the history of the country to even graduate from high-school. now tell me, if they eventually want to become doctors, why is it necessary for them to have studied history?
it's not all so black and white. you have to look at the bigger picture. and in the bigger picture this totally makes sense.
also, the Convent is a pretty active institution in Pakistan educationally. why don't they open up some medical colleges and also give extra marks to people who are more learned in the Christian faith?
Pakistan has a right to define the laws in education sector in the country according to religious and societal values.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
^The whole issue is being misrepresented into a muslim vs christian issue. Firstly, in space of 20 marks there would be nearly 100 students may be more. In my session the difference of merit between KEMC and AIMC was 30 marks, which means there were nearly 200 tudents in space of 30 marks. So she is not competeing with 1 Hafiz but 100+ students who have more marks then her and are not Hafiz as well (as there are only few). Secondly, she has the option to apply on minority qouta seats, and be accepted with marks lower than open merit, in this aspect her being christian is a privilege not a setback.
Adding to this, tomorrow she will petition if a stronger person is equal to her, since there are seats for sports qouta, or if she is equal to a disabled or not, since there are seats for disabled etc
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
I don't think the problem is with quota system in general. Her objection was on an open merit seat being used for giving advantage based on religion.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
I don't think the problem is with quota system in general. Her objection was on an open merit seat being used for giving advantage based on religion.
the quota of seats that's been given to her due to her minority religion is also taken from the overall pool of open merit seats... should Muslim students start filing petitions against those too? k why did those Christians or those Hindus get into the med college via those special quota seats just coz they are Christian/Hindu?
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
Technically, this Christian girl Could do Hifz. (unless there is a religious decree telling her not to, but i'm not sure about that).
They take Islamiat because they have no other choice in the class full of Muslims, and school not willing to teach a different subject to just one pupil.
[quote]
for Pakistanis, or Muslims in general, Hifz is something very dear to our hearts. A lot of us would love for our children to be Hafiz. However, many people have the concern that it will take too much time in early years of schooling, and therefore the child will not be able to catch up later on with "normal" school.
[/quote]
But he DID catch up later. That's why he had good marks, to be able to get close to taking admission in a medical school.
Besides, time spent is not the issue here.
[quote]
Therefore, measures such as these are necessary to put in place so that people do not think that if their child will do Hifz, he will be left behind in his career.
[/quote]
Well then similar measures should be put in place for minorities as well. That if they do something special for their religion then they will get 20 marks in medical schools too.
[quote]
Same as for example, if you apply to a western college, they will value you if you've done sports/community work for example.
if people can be given extra marks for NCC (military training), or if minorities can be given special consideration (putting them in a separate pool of applicants through quotas), then why is giving extra marks to Hafiz unfair?
[/quote]
EVERYONE would have equal access to sports/community work, regardless of religion. This is not true in case of hifz.
[quote]
Pakistan has a right to define the laws in education sector in the country according to religious and societal values.
[/QUOTE]
Pakistan has every right to do whatever its people like. But then Pakistan should openly say that it does not consider minorities to be equal citizens of the country. That they are second class citizens. That Pakistani people do not agree with its own founder's vision.
Interestingly, this is what extremist Talibanic people like Jamatis actually want to do in Pakistan.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
I really want to see what would be the court ruling on this. Must be interesting
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
They take Islamiat because they have no other choice in the class full of Muslims, and school not willing to teach a different subject to just one pupil.
Not really, they can just choose to drop the subject altogether but they take it coz its an easy subject and they can get another passing subject under their belt. I am talking about the O level case as I'm more familiar with that, I am not sure how Matric works here.
But he DID catch up later. That's why he had good marks, to be able to get close to taking admission in a medical school. Besides, time spent is not the issue here.
Why is time spent and overall skill of the person not the issue? As I've mentioned, you don't Just look at the academic qualification when awarding college admission. This applicant who is a Hafiz has a valuable skill and is rewarded for that simply.
Well then similar measures should be put in place for minorities as well. That if they do something special for their religion then they will get 20 marks in medical schools too.
This is the job of countries who are based on those religions. Pakistan is Islamic Republic of Pakistan. For the minorities, you have minority quota. Maybe government will consider this if we want to abolish minority quota though?
EVERYONE would have equal access to sports/community work, regardless of religion. This is not true in case of hifz.
i don't want to repeat same thing again about Non Muslim doing Hifz.. but anyway, that is more of a technical point... but sure, Hafiz is getting extra marks, but minorities are also getting special care through minority quota.
Pakistan has every right to do whatever its people like. But then Pakistan should openly say that it does not consider minorities to be equal citizens of the country. That they are second class citizens.
If we did not consider minorities to be equal citizens, we would not be going out of our way to make special laws to ensure their protection. Pakistan has a minorities ministry. And for educational admissions, there is minority quota. Islam ensures that minorities are taken care of in an Islamic state, and consequently the laws of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan are trying to emulate that..
That Pakistani people do not agree with its own founder's vision. Interestingly, this is what extremist Talibanic people like Jamatis actually want to do in Pakistan.
Ok... well... this is a different topic altogether so I will not comment on this here... :)
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
I really want to see what would be the court ruling on this. Must be interesting
This is the part I am afraid of. These days with most of the government class trying to bend backwards to appear "enlightened" and "liberal" and trying to enforce secular culture in Pakistan, we just can't be sure what the ruling will be.
Personally, I think this petition is highly dumb and totally baseless.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
the girl is absolutely right. this is discrimination. people who memorize the Quran should not be given 20 points unless students from other religions are also given points for devotion to their respective religions.
this girl has been robbed.
Sure go ahead and recommend it to our minority people so they can come up with a proposal to promote following within their own religion could earn some points and then lobby it to make it law just like Hifz-e-Quran.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
Sure go ahead and recommend it to our minority people so they can come up with a proposal to promote following within their own religion could earn some points and then lobby it to make it law just like Hifz-e-Quran.
if I was going to lobby for something, it would be for the removal of the 20 bonus marks for memorizing the Quran. we need to get rid of the jahaalat of religion (all of them) - not further inject it into our society.
but then again, I'm a lowly kaafir... not a guaranteed heaven bound momin like yourself.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
but then again, I'm a lowly kaafir... not a guaranteed heaven bound momin like yourself.
pahle dafa aap nay sensible baat ki hai is Forum par hats off
took you long time to realise that but eventually you did.
thank you
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
thank you, clad.
I'm sure your peer - that rat Altaf Terrorist Hussain is also on the fast track to heavenly bliss. hope he gets there soon. Inshallah. lets join hands and pray for this good cause.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
BABA SAIEEN read and post READ and post ..
JAZBAAT ko qabu main rakhO
us larke ka naam SHEEREN REHMAN nahe tha 
and that boy who is hafiz-e-quran is not from MQM
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
yeah no kidding... MQM wallas don't have time to go to school. they're too busy with target killings, spreading terrorism and collecting bhatta for Altaf Terrorist Hussain. we don't want Altaf Terrorist Hussain to have to start driving a cab again now do we.
once we're done with the taliban, the state must take care of Muttahia Qaatil Movement and its terrorist activities.
Re: Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
Another thread of Quran and Islam Bashing... Lagay rahoo
You have to understand that this thread has nothing to do with "Quran and Islam Bashing" yet it is an effort to limelight a social evil that has been ingrained into Pakistani society for ages, hence it must be rooted out right now ----- or it will be too late for all of us.