It is just appalling however that during Saddam's regime Muslim voices were silent as to his attrocities. No one dared voice a concern at his murder of Muslims. Do you think he and Uday and Qusay did it all themselves? Thirty five years of Saddam have left some very bad people there, and the refusal of many guppies to even acknowledge their crimes is stunning. Whats worse is that all of the sudden the "iraqi freedom fighters" have been miraculouly cleansed and transformed into Muslim heros becuase they are resisting Americans. Anything is forgiven as long as you are against Americans.
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OG. I was among the first, if not the first, to rejoice the deaths of Uday and Qusay, and the arrest of Saddam. And so were a lot of Iraqis.
Saddam did not have as wide a following in Iraq as we are led to believe. Iraqis stayed quiet because of a government that ruled by brute force. Now they are being ruled by invaders that are ruling by brute force. The scenario is still the same, except the rulers are outsiders this time around, which is what inflames most iraqis, not just Saddam supporters. True, Saddam has a lot of leftovers remaining in Iraq, but you cannot carpet bomb Fallujah and expect all the dead to be Saddams men.
Again, a lot of the 'freedom fighters' in Iraq actually have nothing to do with Saddam or his party. They come from a varied background, of people who were affected by the war personally. Many lost their loved ones, many lost their limbs, many lost their livelihoods, their homes, etc etc. These common 'personal' losses have united a lot of non-baath Iraqis to take up arms as well, and they are being cast in the same group as Saddam loyalists, even though they have nothing in common as far as ideology is concerned. The only thing they have in common is opposition to the invaders. Remember, for many, this animosity goes all the way back to '90 Gulf war.
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*Originally posted by Stu: *
3 of them were american's. I think it's about time for an a$$-whooping in Fallujah
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whoa! this is just going to cause more scenes like this...
the way to end all this is for the foreigners to leave...
doesnt the american administration get the message? the iraqis dont like these foreign invaders in their country...their are sick, tired, frustrated, helpless and are now resorting to such things...
you cant suppress a whole nation with violence and force...for how long? it will erupt and these things will happen
BTW how come this news made top headlines in all major international news channels, but when iraqi soldiers were killed in barbaric inhumane ways, that was not even covered?
Please find an instance where Iraqi soldiers were killed and treated inhumanely-in the way those men were.
The horrific shooting of the family at the checkpoint on the bridge, was covered widely. And the soldiers who made this horrible ** mistake** were griefstricken by it. Osama himself would find some protectors were he to be spotted walkin in Times Square. The savages in Fallujah were not oppressed by America, they’re just pissed off animals. I now must run the disclaimer that I know that their behaviour is not allowed in Islam and that all Muslims are not rabid savages. But let’s give credit where credit is due. These scumbags represent the worst humanity can offer up. No ifs ands or buts.
You think drunk american soldiers don’t do that with captured iraqis? Believe me, its no Trump Taj Mahal treatment. Unfortunately those atrocities you will never see or hear about, I guess they don’t exist huh?
There was a story of a somalian boy and his treatment, torture, mutiliation and death at the hand of canadian soldiers. Canadian soldiers are boy scouts compared to american. It was 5 years before anyone even found out. By that time its all forgotton.
Don’t compare 1 gram’s worth of atrocity with a tonnes worth of atrocities, put it on the same scale.
Yeah yeah, 2 wrongs don’t make a right, if 1 is wrong, the other has a right to be wrong also. Simple…why should muslims go by the rules if others don’t. Yeah yeah… I hear someone saying ‘Then whats the difference between us and them’. Then go ahead, let your brothers, your family and everyone else be killed unjustly and do nothing. Sit back and watch and wait for a just world, then fight! And thank the american killers for respecting the dead bodies they kindly return to your doorstep after blowing them up. pathetic…
You think these “rules of humanity” they (americans) apply to themselves? they have no rules. Who is there to question them or enfore them? DUH!
Seems these rules only apply to muslims these days, like a hurd of obedient sheep. But thanks to a few devoted tigers, the a$$ being whooped will not be iraqi’s. Inhallah…Isn’t that how its always been in islamic history? It was always a devoted few who defeated the kafir and defeated injustice.
devoted to what? they’re openly going against islam and the rules it sets. show me where its allowed to desecrate dead bodies. and lets not kid ourselves. the people we saw are not the type of muslims that make us proud. they are cowards. i mean, beating up a dead body. you have to be sick to do that. and the ‘rules of humanity’ are of no concern to me. we’re talking about the rules in Islam.
Oh God, the usual expected responses, ‘show me where it says this, show me where it says that’. Man, when it comes to islam and muslims, we have to go by the book don’t we? Kind of like the british rule in India, the law and rules only applied to ‘indians and dogs’ nobody else.
Yep, bring islam into every atrocity commited, and read, I do call it an atrocity! But dont EVER bring christianity or ‘american way’ into atrocities commited by americans, I forgot, they have no rules or atrocity doesn’t apply to them. Rules only apply to muslims and islam, because we are only humble servants of kafirs. Kind of like the difference between humans and animals. Got news for you, muslims are human also.
Why arent ‘rules of humanity’ of concern to you? why is only rules of ‘islam’ a concern? I guess rules only apply to muslims, everyone else can do whatever the hell they want. I wonder where islam would be today if all muslims were this ‘obedient’ to the kafir. Probably just like the armenians.
Had this event not been a repeat of Mogadishu, then perhaps the reation might be different. OBL often stated that the US would turn and run from any conflcit when faced with this type of atrocity. Thus the event may have been extensively planned for a maximum shock effect.
In retrospect however the turn-tail-and run in Mogadishu only served to encourage OBL, so that is precsiely what will NOT happen this time. I get the sense that Americans have expected this type of behavior, but no matter how well prepared you are for this type of thing, the horror of it is still shocking.
The contractors killed were ex-military, guarding a food shipment. whether retired or not, the military is a very close family, and they do not like bodies desecrated. The military will react strongly, but to their credit they have not crushed the town in a knee jerk fashion. Hide the women and children, if the Fallujah elders do not hand over the killers the military will go after them. it will not be pretty.
The arrogance of the Amerikkkan GLobocops is simply unbelievable they talking like this is happening in chicago or miami beach.
this is Iraq occupied land Amerikka break every human rights rule known to man in guantanamo bay you abuse iraqis daily when few of your occupiers get killed you complain.
Simple solution get out of iraq and mind your own business.
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*Originally posted by little human: *
As far as I know muslims aren't suppose to mutiliate bodies even of enemies.
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In theory, muslims are supposed to be peace loving and tolerant. In practice........
Keep Islam out of this, this is war and the rules of law do not apply. The first casualty of war is "TRUTH". Great master Sun Tsu's 2000 year old classic, "The Art of war" this is what it states.
** The first rule of war is that there is no rule. **
You are welcome to go through the logs of Geneva Convention and see who the biggest violater is. Beside rules are for humans not for animals or terrorist.
You must have heard people of Far East eat anything that moves! I am referring to Chinese, Vietnam, and Koreans etc... Sorry if I offended any one from that region, no intention of insulting. But what I am getting to is an interview I saw of a Vietnamese officer who had the honor of raping yanks and driving the low lives out of their country... He said there was no shortage of food in the forest. During tough times they killed an American and ate ITS meat. I don't know if it was an isolated incident or the norm but given the circumstances I won't be surprised if it was business as usual. In SK a GI Joe crossed the 38th parallel for what ever reason; he was chopped up with an axe and handed back to the yanks. You won't hear such stories for obvious reasons, terrorist deserve worse and mark my words the scums will run but only with media spin. Iraq may be sitting on worlds 2nd largest oil reserves but it aint gona be walk in the park. The myth that Iraqis will welcome the gals with open arms and showering them with flowers is shattered.
No insurgency or freedom movement can survive without popular local support. This incident lends support to that theory. I have not seen any pics but I hope the scums were hanged by their balls. This is the result of being somewhere you do not belong and are not wanted.
^ Isnt it sad, Muslims during the times of the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) treated their enemies with such respect, even during wars. This incident reminds us how the Muslim ummah is travelling backwards in time.
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
There is no denying that Iraq has a flux of homegrown terrorists who supported Saddam as well as foreign terrorists such as al 'Qaida. The U.S. will protect it’s interests be it in Iraq or anywhere else.
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Underthedome,
I have to disagree with calling the Iraqi's terrorists. It was us Americans that attacked Iraq. I disagree with calling them freedom fighters as well. The title "freedom fighter" should be bestowed only if one promotes freedom of their fellow countrymen. It appears that fellow Iraqi's are also often earmarked for attack.. so what should one call them? Not sure. Bathists maybe? What do they call themselves?
It's been stated by many who work/worked for the U.S. government that Iraq had no ties to Al Quada prior to our attacking them. I think its definately possible that today there could be Al Quada in Iraq ...but if so...probobly as a result of our attack IMHO.
As I recall Iraq seemed to have cooperated for the most part , at least agreed to allow our renewed search for WMD's before the war started.....Do ya wonder there are angry Iraqi's about? Especially those who lost loved ones? I think things would be different if we were invited to take out Saddam.
Not that Saddam being gone isn't a good thing. Not that democracy in Iraq isn't a good thing. As long as democracy is what the Iraqi people want, not because its what we Americans want. The wants of the people of Iraq should be first concideration. I just don't think its fair or right to enforce democracy on a people if the priority is to benefit another.
Keep Islam out of this, this is war and the rules of law do not apply. The first casualty of war is "TRUTH". Great master Sun Tsu's 2000 year old classic, "The Art of war" this is what it states.
** The first rule of war is that there is no rule. **
You are welcome to go through the logs of Geneva Convention and see who the biggest violater is. Beside rules are for humans not for animals or terrorist.
You must have heard people of Far East eat anything that moves! I am referring to Chinese, Vietnam, and Koreans etc... Sorry if I offended any one from that region, no intention of insulting. But what I am getting to is an interview I saw of a Vietnamese officer who had the honor of raping yanks and driving the low lives out of their country... He said there was no shortage of food in the forest. During tough times they killed an American and ate ITS meat. I don't know if it was an isolated incident or the norm but given the circumstances I won't be surprised if it was business as usual. In SK a GI Joe crossed the 38th parallel for what ever reason; he was chopped up with an axe and handed back to the yanks. You won't hear such stories for obvious reasons, terrorist deserve worse and mark my words the scums will run but only with media spin. Iraq may be sitting on worlds 2nd largest oil reserves but it aint gona be walk in the park. The myth that Iraqis will welcome the gals with open arms and showering them with flowers is shattered.
No insurgency or freedom movement can survive without popular local support. This incident lends support to that theory. I have not seen any pics but I hope the scums were hanged by their balls. This is the result of being somewhere you do not belong and are not wanted.
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Abdali,
I had an uncle in DaNang and other hotspots in Vietnam. He said in the jungle villages peoples heads were sliced off and put on polls to show control of a village by the Viet-kong. He told me of nightmares after he came home where he nearly strangled his wife waking up from a bad dream.
Spock why do you see it as a US vs Islam thing? this war is not in Islam ... a nation attacked another nation.. if you are now to appeal to the collective religious sensitivies of the Iraqi's show me where true Christians attack another country and kill civilians and then want total control over the political structure and oil reserves?
Don’t give this incident an Islamic flare; Islam is not the key factor here.
Every thing between turkey and Burma is neck deep in ignorance, illiteracy, poverty, customs and social values that suit the dark ages.
As I am not an Iraqi ,I wont comment on that subject , but as far as Afghanistan and Tribal areas of Pakistan go, I would like to say....
These people do not speak your western lingo, The only language they understand is Brutal force.
Words like "wining their hearts" or "peaceful negotiations" are totally meaningless to them.
If you treat them inhumanely not only will u all gain their respect but also their loyalty.
PS:Americans this time the advice is free , next time I will charge u.
