.....
The whole terrorist soup in Pak these days is run by Saudi/gulf charities ....
Do you have any evidence for that?
Re: Iran accuses pakistan of suicide attack
Burqaposh, i have said enough but wud like to make a final point..............takfiri/al qaeda/taliban/wahabhi etc...........all these terms are interchangeable and their characteristics common..........all the best
interesting vdo sister…Rigi Abdul Malek who is the brother of this fellow and founder/chief of Jundullah, stayed for a long period of time at Binaori Town, Jahangir Road, Karachi…Pakistani authorities know their operations and their sponsors quite well but are handicapped at the moment to do anything abt it…will be interesting to see what course of action the parties involved will take now…
TNFJ's stance is very close to Jamat e Islami, ..........in fact some of the Sunni groups like Jamaat e Islami, specially when it was under Maulana Maududi, operated very closely with the Iranian revolutionary regime.........
In my opinion that is even more reason to be sceptical of pro Iran groups. Their rhetoric sounds too similar to JI and JUI.
what do you mean by "defend violently"!? How is it possible to defend oneself from a terrorist attack?........Pakistani Shias have gone through a very rough time already.........apart from Parachinar and a few odd bombings things ve been much better for them since the event of 9/11 and the whole crackdown on the Takfiri outfits......
I mean defend Iran violently by attacking pro Saudi groups in Pakistan. Shias in Pakistan have already been under attack from the pro Saudi group already (like Parachinar etc). They, also, have perpetrated violence at times (again, like in Parachinar). Attacks on Iran and now with Iran publicly taking a stand means escalation in violence in Pakistan.
Re: Iran accuses pakistan of suicide attack
In my opinion that is even more reason to be sceptical of pro Iran groups. Their rhetoric sounds too similar to JI and JUI.
remember, that i was talking of the pre-Zia era when Jamat e Islami and Tehreek were both fairly settled organisations with pragmatic leadership and a practical vision to work for...... now its not the case anymore and the political environment of our country is not the same either.......... religious parties are in dire need of reform and somehow need to pull back the educated brains back to their ranks (which looks like a mission impossible at the moment).
[quote]
I mean defend Iran violently by attacking pro Saudi groups in Pakistan. Shias in Pakistan have already been under attack from the pro Saudi group already (like Parachinar etc). They, also, have perpetrated violence at times (again, like in Parachinar). Attacks on Iran and now with Iran publicly taking a stand means escalation in violence in Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]
Ajju, go back to the 90s when Afghanistan was ruled by Taliban...........there was a time when tension between Iran and Taliban was at its peak...........it was after the Talibans had kidnapped and killed the Iranian ambassador and i think the massacre at the Mazar i Sharif had also taken place by that time..........there was a lot of talk of Iran attacking Taliban but the Iranian supreme leader came out and said that despite Taliban being on the wrong, Iran will not kill their fellow Muslims as it only serves the interests of the enemies of Islam........
u must observe every group that is in good terms with Iran..........Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas in Gaza, SCIRI in Iraq, TNFJ in Pakistan, Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt etc.........promote cooperation and unity not only between the Muslims but also the local Christians, Jews, Druze and the other minorities.........Sunnis and Shias have lived for the past 14 centuries with theological and history related differences and as i tried to say before, both branches very clearly reaffirm the point that its prohibited to kill another human being, let alone another person who utters the name of Allah and his Prophet (irrespective of whats in his heart)..................it is neither Shia, nor Sunnis but a Najidi group that says its not only OKAY TO KILL in the name of God but a service to God...........this group might think that its doing a great service to Islam but they are the ones providing all the opportunities for our enemies............I'd recommend a book: Two faces of Islam by Stephen Schwartz...
What happened in Parachinar was an act complete war on the Shias........all the roads leading to them were closed down and they were attacked from the hilltops.......they fought a defensive battle against an invading force........you have on record a Lashkar e Jhangvi molvi sahab, whose video can be found on the youtube, saying that this time the shias escaped but the next time they wont!
.........Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas in Gaza, SCIRI in Iraq, TNFJ in Pakistan, Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt etc...........
Nussairee.
This is strange. You seem to be supporting terror organizations. And that could get you in trouble. At the minimum it is against the forum policy to support terror.
Re: Iran accuses pakistan of suicide attack
^lets leave it for the local populations of the countries, where these ogranisations operate, decide what they think of these orgs .........
i know that u like to keep things simple and wish to chuck everyone, who the powers of the day define as the "terrorist org", into the terror-bin.........somehow i dont think the moderators/rule-writers of this forum are that.....lets just say 'simplistic.......
^lets leave it for the local populations of the countries, .........
Yeap. And the local populations say they are terrorists, unless off course one is slave of Mullahs.
Re: Iran accuses pakistan of suicide attack
^ yea sure, local populations must really hate them.....thats why in Lebanon, Hezbollah had ALL of its candidates successful in the last elections.......SICRI is part of the winning coalition in the last national elections of Iraq.........Hamas handsomely won the elections in Gaza, despite the local population receiving many threats from the big powers insisting they must not vote for Hamas...........In Egypt, Mr Mubarak has to consistently crack down and suppress Ikhwan and God knows how many of their members and leaders are in the jail..........
being a slave to the mullahs is bad but being slave to the ignorance can be worse..........
Zia was a Jamati too. Pre-Zia or post, The Jamat philosophy is the cancer and poison Pakistan is afflicted at the moment. That TNFJ is of the same bind, shows it in similar poor light, again IMO.
Iran did threaten full fledged war against Taliban and posted several divisions on the border. They did not attack but continued arming and training their favored group like Hizb-e-Wahdat, Dostum and Masood. Iran was very much involved in the civil war in Afghanistan, which was more a war by proxies between Iran, Central Asian States on one side and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia on ther other. All parties involved their had their hand in bloodshed and perpetrated in their fare share in massacres and bloodshed. It will be very naive to beleive a propoganda line of not wanting to kill fellow muslims.
True, Shias have been target of extreme brutality in Parachinar. However, they are not completely innocent themselves. Before the ongoing seige of Parachinar began, Shia groups had attacked sunni tribesmen living in Parachinar and forced them to leave Parachinar. These people still cannnot go back to their homes. Read this article titled “Life in Kurram” by Farhat Taj in Daily News Oct 19 2009.
Ajju, I personally do not support the case of these religious parties but I respect any party that does not adopt illegal or underground means to acquire to power…in early years of Pakistan…Jamat i Islami was not the same party that it was in the 80’s…i will agree that it had been poisioned…
Yes, Iran did back Northern Alliance against the Taliban…do u consider the Talibans, or any group that spills the blood of innocent human beings, a Muslim? what did the 4th caliph do with the kharijiites?
the link that you ve provided is not working so kindly repost…anyway…do u reckon then that Shia triggered the whole war then? are there any Sunnis living in Parachinar now or they were all kicked out?
Shia Sunni difference is on a very flimsy point. People who were converted by Shias became Shia and people who were converted by Sunnis became Sunnis.
Yet the essence of both sects is very similar. both believe in Allah and Paighambar. Other small differences erupt in every family but so much bloodshed and hatred still exists even out of the history of Islam books. God knows when will it stop. Both sides are strictly adhering to their points and never relenting. Non violence- till now unknown in Islam, only can bring peace when two sides meet and sit and accept the differences of each other.
Re: Iran accuses pakistan of suicide attack
I agree that a Muslim can not kill another Muslim. May Allah (swt) help us get rid of the Fitnatul Wahabiya
Yes, Iran did back Northern Alliance against the Taliban..............do u consider the Talibans, or any group that spills the blood of innocent human beings, a Muslim? what did the 4th caliph do with the kharijiites?
Yes the schism is that old, unfortunately the barbarism and bloodshed has only increased. The last thing I want to do is to declare who is ans who isn't a muslim.
the link that you ve provided is not working so kindly repost........anyway.....do u reckon then that Shia triggered the whole war then? are there any Sunnis living in Parachinar now or they were all kicked out?
It is useless to argue who did what first. Anyway, here is the article.
Monday, October 19, 2009
By Farhat Taj
Until recently when I heard about Sunni IDPs in Kohat from Parachinar, my own perception was that Parachinar was a 100 per cent Shia town and the Sunnis living there were Afghan refugees. I had this perception despite the fact that I belong to a Pakhtun area with mixed Shia-Sunni population that is not far from Parachinar. Moreover, I have seen Shias from Parachinar becoming victims of most barbaric acts of terrorism committed by the Waziristan-based Taliban.
I decided to meet the Sunni IDPs from Parachinar in Kohat. Later, I also had separate meetings with Shia and Sunni tribal elders from Parachinar. It turned out that there is a native Sunni Pakhtun minority in Parachinar: about 6,000 people. They belong to Zazi, Ghilji, Parachamkani, Ali Sherzai, Mengal, Muqbal and Utayzai tribes. The biggest tribe in Parachinar is Shia Toori. The Shia section of the Bangash tribe also lives there.
For centuries both Shia and Sunni tribes lived in peace under the tribal code of Pakhtunwali. Most disputes were peacefully resolved through jirga. Clashes were tribal rather than sectarian. In April 2007 there was a brawl in Parachinar among people linked with external sectarian organisations. The clash soured relations between Shai and Sunni Pakhtuns in the town. In November 2007 there was another clash in which many Sunni tribesmen, women and children were killed, their houses and businesses were burnt and a number of them were made to flee Parachinar. They now live as IDPs in many parts of NWFP.
In Kohat there are 120 IDP families from Parachinar. They live in a deplorable condition in rented houses. I saw sick children whose parents had no money to buy medicine. There were widows with no one to care for and children who wanted to attend school, as they did in Parachinar, but have ended up doing child labour. The IDPs alleged that the extremist elements within the majority sect in Parachinar rumoured that there were Taliban among them, encircled their neighbourhoods and staged the carnage. It makes it easier to kill your adversary if you name them as the Taliban, because the word Taliban has become a symbol of hate among the tribal people. They said that in some houses there were no men at the time of attack and minor children and women were besieged and fired upon. A mother told me of her son, Azam Khan, who she made to take up a machine gun and fire in defence. The boy was 14 years old at the time and a student of class seven. She said that she asked her son to kill her and his sisters before the attackers broke into their house. She wept and said that she wished to see her son become a doctor and never thought she would make her take up a machine gun.
They told me that for seven days they remained under siege. There was no food and water. No one came to help them. After seven days, a colonel came and ordered a house search in the neighbourhood in which he found no Taliban. Everyone was a permanent resident of the area. The residents were evacuated by the security forces to Sadda, a Sunni majority area outside Parachinar. From Sadda they went to various parts of NWFP where they now live as IDPs. They were of the opinion that the Shia extremists punished them for atrocities committed against Shias in other parts of Pakistan.
Later I had separate meetings with Shia and Sunni tribal elders from Parachinar to discuss the situation. There were accusations, counter-accusations, claims and counter-claims. Both sides showed me video clips depicting acts of terrorism committed against each side. Unless there is a proper impartial investigation, it is difficult to say who did what and how.
The fact is that both Shias and Sunnis have greatly suffered in sectarian clashes. Parachinar remained cut off from the rest of Pakistan for three years while Shias were publicly beheaded in areas outside the town. The other fact is that both sides have been abandoned by the state. For seven days the Sunnis were fired upon and no state help came. In two years many IDPs have not even been registered by the government. Those who have been registered by the government have received little state help. For Shias of Parachinar it is still very unsafe to travel on Parachinar-Peshawar road.
Both Shia and Sunni tribal elders hold state policies vis-a-vis Afghanistan responsible for the death and destruction in Parachinar. The Shia elders said that Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists ran into Waziristan after the US bombed them in Afghanistan. The terrorists sought passage via Parachinar to Kabul, because this is the shortest route to the Afghan capital. The Toori tribe flatly refused to provide the Taliban this safe passage and hence its current predicament where it is being punished by the Taliban.
Both sides hold individuals in official positions for playing a role in the ongoing tensions in Kurram and in particular Parachinar. The Shia elders alleged that two political agents of the area asked them to facilitate the Taliban’s movement or be ready for the consequences. Fortunately however, elders from both sides are keen to restore the excellent relations that the two groups have always had in the past. They agreed that in essence the sectarian tension in Parachinar is the tribal rivalry between the Toori, who are Shia, and the Mangal, who are Sunni, over resources like land and water. Had there not been so many external forces involved, the Toori and Mangal tribes would find a solution while the rest would act as bystanders. Due to external pressures, both Tooris and Mengals have dragged other tribes into the rivalry along sectarian lines. One group of tribal elders accused a foreign-funded jihadi madressah around Parachinar of spreading sectarian violence. The other group of elders held a religious scholar from Gilgit and interference by one of Pakistan’s neighbours as being behind the atmosphere of intolerance. Elders of both sects also alleged that a local, with links to the Sipah-e-Sahaba, was fomenting the sectarian disharmony.
The mainly Sunni Ali Khel tribe in Orakzai agency stood up to the Taliban when they threatened the Shia section of their tribe. Both Shia and Sunni tribal elders met in a grand jirga to work out the details of an anti-Taliban lashkar. The jirga was attacked by a suicide bomber, killing over 100 tribal elders. Orakzai was taken over by the Taliban after the mass killing of the Ali Khel tribal leadership and everyone — the majority Sunni and minority Shia and Sikh communities — suffered under the Taliban occupation.
In any civilised society the majority has a responsibility to protect the minority. It is the turn of the Shia tribal elders of Parachinar to do what the Ali Khels did in Orakzai.
The writer is a research fellow at the Centre for Interdisciplinary Gender Research, University of Oslo, and a member of Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy. Email: bergen34@yahoo .com
Re: Iran accuses pakistan of suicide attack
Insurgency in Baloch regions of Iran has been going on since 19th century, was Pakistan responsible for that too. Iran should look at its own problem and solve them rather than blaming Pakistan.
Has Iran ever had terrorist attacks like this since when this insurgency began?
It is all those khariji-terrorists inside Pakistan who have now started threatening Pakistan government and army as well. Every neighbor of ours, including ourselves, are the victims of these kharijiites.
Re: Iran accuses pakistan of suicide attack
^Bcoz suicide bombing is a recent phenomenon, if it was prevelant in in 19th century, Iran would have got one at that time too. The baloch insurgents in these areas (as well as in Pakisatn) want their own state, they are least concerned with doctrinal issues. But ofcourse you can always blame US and Britain being behind this, like AhmediNijad does.
[quote]
Bcoz suicide bombing is a recent phenomenon
[/quote]
This is a recent phenomenon, which was started and is still based in Pakistani areas.
This is why it is our responsibility to remove this terrorism. Because it threatens not only Pakistan's neighbors but Pakistan itself.
The last thing I want to do is to declare who is ans who isn't a muslim.
Ajju.......thats exactly where we get confused and terrorists get the better of us.........any individual or a group that sheds the blood of fellow human beings, according to most of the sensible religious laws as well as the man made laws, gets the denouncement that they deserve............the basic aim of the religion is to separate the 'good' frm 'evil'...........and i guess if we cant see the 'evil' as big as this, then i am sorry to say...........we kind of deserve to be where we r at this stage............
[quote]
It is useless to argue who did what first. Anyway, here is the article.
[/QUOTE]
will read it later and then respond..........
This is a recent phenomenon, which was started and is still based in Pakistani areas. This is why it is our responsibility to remove this terrorism. Because it threatens not only Pakistan's neighbors but Pakistan itself.
No it was not started by Pakistan but by imported fanatics. Jundullah has been involved in many crimes in Karachi as well like robbing some banks. Authorities should exterminate them, but, if Iran does not want people from its provinces to be recruited into such organisations, it should get its own house in order.