Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

According to the Bible Soloman was already king (although young) when he was approached by God :slight_smile: . God told him “Ask for whatever you want and I will give it you”. Solomon replied “Now, O Lord my God, you have made your servant king in place of my father David. But I am only a little child and do not know how to carry out my duties…So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong”. God then answered “Since you asked for this and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor the death of your enemies…I will give you a wise and discerning heart…moreover, I will give you what you have not asked for - both riches and honour…”.

The only place where the Israelites could worship and some sacrifice to God was at the Tabernacle and the Temple which replaced it once it was built by Solomon. It is an absolute fact that synagogues only came on the scene during the exile of Israel about 600BC. If the Qur’an or the prophet Muhammad referred to Solomon that build a synogogue, the reference is an error as can be proved from archeological point of view. Could your understanding on this issue rather be in error? (Not being sarcastic or blasphemous).

But, you have to concede, that the Qur’an does not mention ALL that Solomon did and therefor might have excluded this fact as being not important. It is a known fact that the Israelite nation did split after the death of Solomon and surely harsh taxes and hard labour could have caused it.

42

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

According to Islam a soul does not have a soul? What would the reason be for Muslim’s not to eat/drink an animals blood? According to the Bible it is because the life/soul is in the blood.

But another (or third person) can’t be “breathed” into a human being?

Does Islam believe in demon possessed people?

43

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

Ok. The reason for mentioning this was to check whether there is any mention of Jinns in the bible because it is very clearly stated in the Quran. So this is marked difference.

44

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

I think from the Quran you cannot tell whether this was new to them or not. There might be historical account though, which I am not aware of or may be I can research somewhat to find out.

I will post the verses from Surah Jinn for this and relevant ahadith.

I disagree. Adam is not God, so we cannot sin towards him. Satan actually sinned in his attitude towards Allah SWT because he disobeyed Allah SWT command to prostrate out of arrogance.

Another point taken as difference. How are magical happenings attributed in the bible though e.g. Miracles performed by Moses PBUH and those magical acts performed by Pharoahs magicians. In fact what is magic attributed to in Christianity? How do humans attain magical powers or do wonders especially those who do them against prophets as in the case of Moses PBUH.

45

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

In that case, can the blood of a living person be transfused into a dead person to give them a soul?

Actually I would like to comment here that many believe that every prohibition in Islam has some kind of scientific reason, this may be true to a great extent however what most people fail to understand many prohibitions imposed upon us are to test our obediecne to Allah SWT. Therefore many people who ignore this important fact and cling to pure scientific reasoning for haram in Islam are sometimes left agape infront of scientific advancements whereas a lot of things that were not clear 1400 years ago and depended on true faith are becoming clear.

So for blood besides havig harmful effects on human health is a prohibition Allah SWT has imposed on us and may be able to find tons of scientific reasons as to why but in the end its about do we obey Allah SWT or not and that makes the difference on us being sinners or not.

Now based on the reason you gave for Christianity, it makes me think that Christianity is evolving according mankinds needs and is not really divine decree. If tomorrow someone could prove or convince large masses that there is no soul in blood, would Christianity change to allow consumption of blood. My point being, the prohibitions or regulations are driven by mankind and not divine intervention. There is no aspect about obedience or disobedience to God. Furthermore, then salvation is ever changing according to evolution based on this line of reasoning and this conflicts with the universality and timelessness of a divine message.

Not necesarily third person but something that is third in existence at the time i.e. Allah SWT, Clay form of Adam PBUH and third a soul.

People can be possessed by Jinn, which is like saying demon possessed people if the Jinn are causing harm to the person.

46

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

AOA
anybody who r here ever seen a jin?
if jin are made up of naar mean fire why wont we see them?tell me honestly if u put up ur hand in fire will u say tht fire is cold and didnt give me a pain?
think about tht Jinn shaitaan Rooh R arabic words u should learn them before and discuss them
I m confused and people make fool us ke yaar jinn hai yaar molvi ko bola loo jinn jism main ghoos gaya shaitaan ko kisi nay nahi daikha lakin ek Donkey daikh laita mujhe aaj taak is main koi akaalmandi wali baat nazar nahi ayee
Agar jinn ke bare main jaana hai
tu araab main qabila hai bani jin in ko daikh laina jinn samjh main ajaye ga

47

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

Piyaray bhai, please do not come to this thread to start arguments. We are having a peaceful dialogue here, this is a series of threads. Unless you can contribute to it positively as others have and within the bounds that have been set for it, it would be better to avoid posting in it. And for your information, here is the reference from Quran about Jinn being made of fire:

“And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud. And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire”
[al-Hijr 15:26-27]

48

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

I would really appreciate it if you could find out.

I suppose it would be interesting for Muslims to also know whether the topic of Jinns was a complete new revelation and whether it just confirmed/correct what beliefs existed.

Maybe I didn’t express myself well. According to Islam Satan sinned w.r.t. the object Adam while according to Christianity Adam was not in the picture. Of course Satan sinned against God if he did not obey God as Islam teach.

According to your remarks that “we cannot sin towards Adam”, must I understand that a person can’t sin against another person but only God?

Magic is either illusion, use/knowledge of something not normally known to people at the time (killing someone with a gun when guns unknown, disappearing ink, etc.), or by invoking the help of demons and Satan to assist with supernatural (naturally unexplained) feats/knowledge. This last can normally only be done when one has a close relationship with these supernatural beings.

Miracles occur when people ask God to somehow interfere with natural science/laws, or ask these other supernatural beings (Satan and his demons) to perform a feat similar.

Pharoah’s magicians used mainly illusion and could not stay the course with Moses’ feats which were outside the natural laws of science (by the power of God). That is why they disappeared after a few attempts.

Quiz Night
49

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

No. Blood per se are not the soul of man.

What ahrmful effects?

It is an impossibility to prove/disprove as the soul can’t be measured/detected/touched/etc. No-one can exist without blood which is life itself. According to the Judeo-Christian teaching, God has a special view of “blood”. We see it in His attitude towards the killing of other beings, sacrifices, and commandment not to digest blood. As a command, it can’t be questioned but merely obeyed.

And how does Islam stand w.r.t. exorcism?

50

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

And for your information, here is the reference from Quran about Jinn being made of fire:

“And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud. And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire”
[al-Hijr 15:26-27]
[/quote]

Yea u r right man but u should analyze tht quran saying this because Allah has made all unverse all alone There Is no Ila(means All alone)except Allah.And Allah knows everything.Now science is saying(sorry people i m giving a fact of science)The temerature of universe at it intial time was so high in other word u can say The temperature was like heat so we people called Insaan Cant live in tht world or earth So Allah revealed tht We made the jinn from Naar (Fire)but this quran telling us tht at time when there was no possibility of life in earth we made the jinn Jo ke aag se banye hoye thai.yahaan lafaz araaha hai thai ka is ka matlab hai in ke qayamaat barpa hoo gaye abb ko jinn kahin nazar nahi ayee ga.The chapter of jinn has been closed.Agar app ko koi shaak hai tu dhoondh loo Jinnat ko Jin ka lafzi means na nazar anay wali chiz ha yea lafaz ka mada Jinnain se nikla Jinnain Har chooopi hoye chiz ko kahtay hai.Islam ka Matlab hi samjh main Quran se ata hai.Aur quran ka balagh yea hai ke woh haqeeqat ko samnay lata hai CHistani baatein nahi karta.

51

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

Jinaab, ager aap Jinnaat per behas karna chahtain hain to upna aloag thread shrue keijiay or main wahan aap se is baray shoq se behas karoon ga. Is thread ka kuch or maqsad hai.

BRIDAL PICS.
52

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

I will see what I can find. Just one comment though, since muslims believe the gospel was changed, it is also highly possible that any mention about Jinns was omitted or changed to angelic creatures.

:), maybe this time I did not express myself well. I think my point was that our sins are held accountible in front of Allah SWT not humans. You are held accountible towards the person or being whose law you are breaking, in this case, Adam was not even a living being so how could have Satan transgressed against him or caused him any harm. So the action of prostration was commanded by Allah SWT and when Satan did not prostrate he disobeyed a command issued by Allah SWT not Adam PBUH.

So what was Satans sin towards God in Christianity?

Meaning Pharoahs magicians were aided by unseen beings to perform magic. I say this because tricks to me are not magic but rather deception, not genuine magic.

I like that you mentioned miracles are performed when people ask God to interfere in natural laws or do wonders through unseen beings. I will discuss this when we discuss Jesus PBUH, just wanted to raise the point so we don't foeget it.

53

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

Harmful effects, lets not discuss this otherwise we will end up making this a scientific debate ... :)

This brings me to interesting thought, but first I must ask, does Christianity believe Angels or Satan or Demons have a soul?

We believe in it may be not exactly as Christianity does but somewhat similar I might say. Since we believe Jinn can take possession of humans, naturally there exist ways to make the Jinn depart as well. Usually those methods are called Ruqyah. We believe in the evil eye as wel, is there any such concept in Christianity.

54

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

It would have to be a concerted global effort to remove it so completely. Anyway, the Scriptures is next up and then it can be discussed…

I thought Adam at that time already was alive and conscious. My mistake.

Quite different. The Bible is not clear WHY, but Satan led a rebellion against God and claimed himself to be God’s equal (many men since have also thought so and they are all dead). All happened before the “creation” of mankind.

Tricks for the person that is in the know is not magic but it might appear to someone else as such and might be described by the person as “magic”.

55

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

There is different views. Firstly, the issue of angels/demons are not as important for most Christian theologians as the more important issues for Christians such as e.g. Salvation. Some theologians take the viewpoint that angels/demons are spirit beings in a “special” body similar to what resurrected Christians will get after the Judgement day. Other believe that they have a soul as well because they can reason, have emotions and have a free will. Myself…I haven’t really made any study on the issue.

Can you elaborate more on the methods? (Who/how/where/when/etc.).

I don’t think so. Who has the evil eye and what are the consequences?

56

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

Not if done at an early stage.

So this means the events around Adam PBUH creation are quite different between Islam and Christianity.

57

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

Ok. My question would have been does the soul for angels and humas differ according to Christianity. Anyway moot point for now.

I would rather point to a good link for this as it might long answers. There are different methods, check www.islamqa.com and Subcategory Belief in Jinn.

Evil eye is attributed to other peoples jealousy or them not well-wishing for you. For instance, if you have a very beautiful child and people come and see the child and keep saying the child is beautiful, some may be jealous if there own children are not so. Eventually some harm comes to your child.

58

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

Problem is that the Old Testament were written over hundreds of years. When would be an “early stage”?

Does seem so to me as well.

59

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

Harm just because someone else is jealous?

If someone curse someone else, maybe. Christianity teach that actions by deed and word can cause damage to others. Curses therefor can ultimately have an effect on someone else (as well as the utterer). If one is a follower/believer of God Almighty, He becomes your protector and one can’t be touched or harmed unless by His permission.

These curses and also ancestral ties can though be cut off and made null and void.

Christians that practice exorcism are normally more prone to attacks from Satan and his hosts. If they don’t follow and adhere closely to what God expects from them, they can be easily fall from grace.

60

Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Angels and Jinn) - Islam and Chrsitianity

Could not find the reference.