Intellectual Intercourse

[Demilitarize]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@chaibiskut

Ah, but you went out of your way to pick definition 3, because let's face it, everybody loves to talk about SEX! No shame in that.

Only because you went out of your way to choose a word which the general layman easily associates with sex rather than discourse, which has nothing to do with sex whatsoever.

[chaibiskut]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@Sehrysh

I agree with chaibiskut eleventy billion percent! (borrowed from @Milly )

Being able to have a conversation, whether it be a pretentious high-brow existentialist pseudo-intellectual one or a low-brow gossip fest is critical for the success of any relationship.

A couple has to be comfortable with exchanging words with one another as well as know how to enjoy comfortable silence in each other’s company. What they talk about is specific to the couple, but it has to be mutually satisfying.

I had a feeling you’d like this discussion. Ditto, you know you’ve got something good when the silence is comfortable. I don’t know what’s worse though, talking at each other, or waking up and realizing you have nothing left to say to your spouse.

PS. I’ll take high-brow pretentious over monosyllable grunts any day

@Sehrysh

Each person is different, there may be some who can survive without that conversational/cerebral connection, but for others that conversation is like water on parched earth - you need it to thrive.

Get outta my head.

[Southie]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

..

[chaibiskut]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@_MuNiYa

Let me throw a wrench in the conversation -

what if the person has everything else. Is a looker, will be able to provide well, edcucated etc etc

but there is just no chemistry in your conversation. Is conversation that important that you don't marry him/her?

I imagine that could become depressing eventually. How does one live under the same roof, let alone sleep and share DNA with someone you don't love talking to/understand. Plenty of marriages like that work though. For most, marriage is a conduit for progeny and security in old age. Nobody wants to die alone. And there's nothing wrong with the same if that's what this life amounts to.

@njgal

I can't even fathom what a marriage would look like without stimulating conversation.

Basically this.

[chaibiskut]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@psyah

Intellectual intercourse is not the most important factor in marriage

For people the most important factor is to share the same "values and principles"

Don't the two feed off each other. The basis for intellectual intercourse has to be similar values/principles, compatible thought processes, similar interests and larger life goals, in addition to the capability to agree to disagree. I think you've simplified what Nietzsche himself meant by marriage being one long conversation. It's no different from what our parents and elders tell us - that after the dopamine high, after you're familiar with the good, bad, and the mundane, conversation is all that's left. For some couples that means one long, boring conversation, for others it's a lack thereof, and for the lucky minority it's like discovering something new everyday.

[QUOTE]
since Nietzsche treated good and evil in an arbitary fashion it meant his most "valued" position was the ability to "argue one's point" - this is the ability to "have an intellectual intercourse" ...
[/QUOTE]

I don't know that he's argued that marriage should be the union of 2 debaters indulging in polemic. It seems you and others take "intellectual" to mean pretentious ivory-tower academic.

[QUOTE]
For many people spouses are not always on level pegging intellectually with their other halves - but for sure they need to share an appreciation for each other's set of values and principles and attempt to share with them their own.
[/QUOTE]

True. I'm far from arguing it should be the same for everyone. Let's face it, not everyone wants a mental equal, not everyone wants someone interesting, and not everyone deserves the same.

[chaibiskut]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@blackforest_360

Intellectual conversation seems to matter most to intellectuals themselves. Smart and intellectual aren't really synonymous as intellects have a more complex mental capacity almost to **need *to be able to converse on more than just sub-par topics. Some couples don't feel the **need* to discuss the honor suicide of japanese samurais or analyze the movie fight club because that is not where their interest lies

What Sehyrsh was saying.

AndIdontneedanymorefemalecrushes.

[queer]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

a lot of what gets termed "chemistry" ends up being the ability between two individuals to keep a lively flow going without awkward pauses and distractions. this is a significant reason why fairly average-looking people can suddenly be charming and attractive up close (so despair not, ye fellow dark-skinned ones of life1).

my guess is at least the folks who have been exposed to co-ed socialization post-puberty will definitely value the ability to carry on an engaging conversation at par with looks. maybe more.

can people who bore each other be happily married? sure why not. especially if their neighbours are fun.

[chaibiskut]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

To the peanut gallery associating 'intellectual' with flatulence, I just wanna say your spouses/SOs are incredibly lucky.

[psyah]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@chaibiskut

True. I'm far from arguing it should be the same for everyone. Let's face it, not everyone wants a mental equal, not everyone wants someone interesting, and not everyone deserves the same.

Peace chaibiskut

I just wanna further clarify what I was saying ... For a successful marriage - what is needed is the "tolerance" for a certain amount of disparity from oneself and in turn from ones expectations of the other... that if you have a certain expectation for beauty but can tolerate so much, that if there is a certain expectation for intellect but see there is a certain amount that you can accept, that for wisdom and that for values and other things ... if all are acceptable or tolerable then marriages can be successful on this basis.

I feel the most important thing for Nietzsche was his desire to "reason" so I was not necessarily talking about a person who debates, but a person who can say "yes, I believe you are right" after he arrives at each conclusion he draws. For some reason I don't think he was the sort of person who would take kindly to being challenged intellectually - for it would be possible to have someone equal in intellect but draw very different conclusions to his own. Ultimately he would need some sort of alignment with his reasoning from his mate and hence it is not about being intellectually comparable but about sharing similar values.

[MissFreudian]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@_MuNiYa

Let me throw a wrench in the conversation -

what if the person has everything else.
Is a looker, will be able to provide well, edcucated etc etc

but there is just no chemistry in your conversation.
Is conversation that important that you don’t marry him/her?

I would have asked the same question. This is a very likely scenario in an arranged marriage! How do you determine the intellectual compatibility exists in an arranged marriage? Because let’s face it, it is still a very popular way of getting married.

Also Chaibiskut, I don’t know how things were with all of you children of the 90s, but when I was growing up in the 80s, intellectual discussions were confined to the men, while the women slipped in to the kitchens to fry the samosas! My mother, (who I believe was quite intellectual) and the other women folk never took part in those discussions at home because they were not expected to. Intellectual discussions were firmly the men’s domain. It was almost always gender based and not interest based. My dad and his friends would be shouting over each other in the Sitting room, ( and as a little girl, I used to love listening to them) while the aunties would be in the dining room discussing hair, makeup and clothes. Despite this, my parents are still very close and happily married.

My point is, intellectual stimulation is a need which varies from person to person and your spouse is not the only one who can fulfil it. In fact there are disadvantages. Sometimes your spouse and you might have a fundamental difference of opinion and if neither of you will budge from your position then you go round and round in circles. The whole experience is far from intellectually stimulating. I’m talking from personal experience!!

[Demilitarize]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@psyah

I feel the most important thing for Nietzsche was his desire to "reason" so I was not necessarily talking about a person who debates, but a person who can say "yes, I believe you are right" after he arrives at each conclusion he draws. For some reason I don't think he was the sort of person who would take kindly to being challenged intellectually - for it would be possible to have someone equal in intellect but draw very different conclusions to his own.

I completely agree Psyah :)
What he wouldve needed, is someone who can understand what he's saying, but ultimately a "yes man"

That is not a marriage, or a life partner.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

Marriage means a lot more than having a stimulating discussion in a chai biscuit shop.

magar yahan tu jisey dhang ka boyfrend nahin mila ho wo bhi relationship expert bana betha hai

[Demilitarize]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@Iconoclast

Marriage means a lot more than having a stimulating discussion in a chai biscuit shop.
magar yahan tu jisey dhang ka boyfrend nahin mila ho wo bhi relationship expert bana betha hai

[Ghost14]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@chaibiskut

Good point. We usually measure intelligence with IQ and aptitude tests. You can be intelligent but dull. You can be intelligent but lack curiosity. You can be intelligent but disinterested in a higher purpose. You can be intelligent and be apathetic to the world outside the 10 mile radius that sums up your meaningless existence. Take Mr. Eligible - he was intelligent on paper, generally well-spoken, good looking for desiman standards, but 30 mins in you realize an Oxbridge education doesn’t always translate into a sexy mind. Social intelligence is another factor - knowing when to stop talking so the girl can get a word in, not using every silent pause to conduct a rapid-fire interview, not making her uncomfortable by staring intently. It was a lovely evening otherwise.

How dare ye?!

Lol but seriously good point about social interactions. That’s why I think being too smart can be a hindrance sometimes. I’m in engineering so there is no shortage of social misfits. Really nice people but they just march to their own beat and have little interest in socializing a lot.

@psyah

Peace chaibiskut

I just wanna further clarify what I was saying … For a successful marriage - what is needed is the “tolerance” for a certain amount of disparity from oneself and in turn from ones expectations of the other… that if you have a certain expectation for beauty but can tolerate so much, that if there is a certain expectation for intellect but see there is a certain amount that you can accept, that for wisdom and that for values and other things … if all are acceptable or tolerable then marriages can be successful on this basis.

I feel the most important thing for Nietzsche was his desire to “reason” so I was not necessarily talking about a person who debates, but a person who can say “yes, I believe you are right” after he arrives at each conclusion he draws. For some reason I don’t think he was the sort of person who would take kindly to being challenged intellectually - for it would be possible to have someone equal in intellect but draw very different conclusions to his own. Ultimately he would need some sort of alignment with his reasoning from his mate and hence it is not about being intellectually comparable but about sharing similar values.

This is a good point. A little humility and acceptance of others for who they are, goes a long way.

[stoppit]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

in·ter·course[in-ter-kawrs, -kohrs]
noun
1. dealings or communication between individuals, groups, countries, etc.
2. interchange of thoughts, feelings, etc.

Alanis used the phrase "Intellectual Intercourse".

chai - dunno why you bother.

[psyah]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@Iconoclast

Marriage means a lot more than having a stimulating discussion in a chai biscuit shop. magar yahan tu jisey dhang ka boyfrend nahin mila ho wo bhi relationship expert bana betha hai

I don't wanna boyfriend ... am I still allowed to be a relationship expert? ;)

[Iconoclast]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@Iconoclast

Marriage means a lot more than having a stimulating discussion in a chai biscuit shop.
magar yahan tu jisey dhang ka boyfrend nahin mila ho wo bhi relationship expert bana betha hai

@Demesne

i don’t know who said it but here it goes
there a person i would like to have a dinner with
tgeres a person i would like to watch a sunday game with
theres a person i would like to have a conversation with
and then there is a person i would like to spend rest of my life with

[Iconoclast]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@Iconoclast

Marriage means a lot more than having a stimulating discussion in a chai biscuit shop.
magar yahan tu jisey dhang ka boyfrend nahin mila ho wo bhi relationship expert bana betha hai

@Demesne

i don’t know who said it but here it goes
there a person i would like to have a dinner with
tgeres a person i would like to watch a sunday game with
theres a person i would like to have a conversation with
and then there is a person i would like to spend rest of my life with

[Enigmatic]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

people change with the passage of time..priorities change, choices and views change. One should be able to have a good conversation but just an intellectual intercourse isn't the only thing that makes a couple perfectly compatible.

[Milly]

Re: Intellectual Intercourse

@chaibiskut

True. I'm far from arguing it should be the same for everyone. Let's face it, not everyone wants a mental equal, not everyone wants someone interesting, and not everyone deserves the same.

Redded and bolded for truth.

Some people deserve exactly what they get, it's a shame denial doesn't teach them that.