Insult of Islam is Muslims

[psyah]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Its common knowledge that in Islamic theory, a true muslim should be trying to do the best in whatever he/she does. Half-arsing things is not something that Allah would be proud of.

You guys are arguing about "power" - everyone knows there are multiple meanings of Power. Power like Allah has? Or Power like a sense of authority that any leader would have? Or Power as in the power you get from knowledge? Or Power from courage through belief? I can go on and on.

I'm sure only one of the above would be haraam for a person to persue and that's Godly Power. You can't pursue it anyway, so it doesn't matter arguing about it.

Peace Sister PyariCgudia

I wholeheartedly disagree that the Holy Book of Allah tells us to get power.

003.026
YUSUFALI: Say: "O Allah! Lord of Power (And Rule), Thou givest power to whom Thou pleasest, and Thou strippest off power from whom Thou pleasest: Thou enduest with honour whom Thou pleasest, and Thou bringest low whom Thou pleasest: In Thy hand is all good. Verily, over all things Thou hast power.

PICKTHAL: Say: O Allah! Owner of Sovereignty! Thou givest sovereignty unto whom Thou wilt, and Thou withdrawest sovereignty from whom Thou wilt. Thou exaltest whom Thou wilt, and Thou abasest whom Thou wilt. In Thy hand is the good. Lo! Thou art Able to do all things.

SHAKIR: Say: O Allah, Master of the Kingdom! Thou givest the kingdom to whomsoever Thou pleasest and takest away the kingdom from whomsoever Thou pleasest, and Thou exaltest whom Thou pleasest and abasest whom Thou pleasest in Thine hand is the good; surety, Thou hast power over all things.

Power is a thing that is bestowed on to us as a result of whomsoever Allah chooses. We have not right to assume it for ouselves. I understand the gymnastics of terminology that you have presented but quite obviously the most emphatic answer is contrary to point #10 above.

[USResident]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

@SlaveofAllaah

SAlamvalekum brother,

I have a complete soft copy of Lane Lexicons dictionary got it in a dvd. If you want it i can with the available resources will try to attach it and provide a link to you as well as other guppies. FYI its in 8 volumes and each file is about 400 mb, if anyone around here has better ideas please do let me know.

I wont promise but will try my best.

Regards,

SOA PM me about it.

[psyah]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Peace SlaveofAllaah and USResident

Thanks for your help on the lexicon link

JazakumAllah Khair

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Well that is great that you consider this as common knowledge. I was saying that this has a specific word for it in Arabic and that is the intended meaning from a Quranic perspective.

Did not understand you here... I was not talking about power. I was saying that you rise above all creation by doing best what you are designed to do (TASBEEH) and that is how Glorify the Name of your Lord (SABBIH ISMA RABBIK)

I am agreeing with you in this issue. But people here are arguing against you and saying that its not a muslim's duty to do the best in whatever you're doing. Its the sad mentality that if you have a job, its okay to half-arse things as long as you read your namazein and come online and do bullying and throw gaaliyan to get people to think like you.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Peace Sister PyariCgudia

I wholeheartedly disagree that the Holy Book of Allah tells us to get power.

003.026 YUSUFALI: Say: "O Allah! Lord of Power (And Rule), Thou givest power to whom Thou pleasest, and Thou strippest off power from whom Thou pleasest: Thou enduest with honour whom Thou pleasest, and Thou bringest low whom Thou pleasest: In Thy hand is all good. Verily, over all things Thou hast power.

PICKTHAL: Say: O Allah! Owner of Sovereignty! Thou givest sovereignty unto whom Thou wilt, and Thou withdrawest sovereignty from whom Thou wilt. Thou exaltest whom Thou wilt, and Thou abasest whom Thou wilt. In Thy hand is the good. Lo! Thou art Able to do all things.

SHAKIR: Say: O Allah, Master of the Kingdom! Thou givest the kingdom to whomsoever Thou pleasest and takest away the kingdom from whomsoever Thou pleasest, and Thou exaltest whom Thou pleasest and abasest whom Thou pleasest in Thine hand is the good; surety, Thou hast power over all things.

Power is a thing that is bestowed on to us as a result of whomsoever Allah chooses. We have not right to assume it for ouselves. I understand the gymnastics of terminology that you have presented but quite obviously the most emphatic answer is contrary to point #10 above.

It is clear to me that getting "power" as I've defined it, is permissable in Islam and even encouraged. These surahs support what I'm saying, interestingly, because obviously God is granting SOME people power, and others not. So if you work hard at your job or at school to get good grades, and you pray to Allah to assist you in your work, and he CHOOSES to grant you your wish and make you the next President of Pakistan or promote you to CEO of your company, then there is NOTHING haraam in that!

Its people like you guys who twist the meanings of the Quran to basically excuse your own pathetic performances in life. Oh its okay beta if you flunked all your classes because you were too worried about your hair and your new Nike sneakers and your new Gameboy, you're still a muslim and you're still going to heaven because you know what? Doing well in this life and avoiding being a financial drain on your family is not something Allah wants of you anyway!

[picoico]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Peace Sister PyariCgudia

I wholeheartedly disagree that the Holy Book of Allah tells us to get power.

This attitude needs to be killed. It is incubant upon all members of the Ummah to prop it up...socially, economically, militarily, etc.. If this means seeking power on an individual level, then so be it.

Power for personal gain, and without any recognition of where it comes from and with no concern for our community is something we should avoid.

Do not think for a second we are meant to be passive in this, and that we should take whatever fate has in store for us. The whole exercise and theory of Jihad (at any level) is fundementally one of empowerment for the secure establishment of Islam.

[hareem01]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Where does it say in the Quran " get power "? May be someone who don't twist the meaning of the Quran to excuse her/his pathetic performance in the life can answer.

[hareem01]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

The whole exercise and theory of Jihad (at any level) is fundementally one of empowerment for the secure establishment of Islam.

But thats " Strive or struggle in the way of Allah.....to be among the muflihun(successful) " . It doesn't say " Strive or Struggle to get power "

[USResident]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

@hareem01

But thats " Strive or struggle in the way of Allah…to be among the muflihun(successful) " . It doesn’t say " Strive or Struggle to get power "

Sis

Actually I think I agree with what picocio said. It depends on how you look at it. The muslims are the vicegerants of Allah SWT on the earth. You cannot establish Allah SWT deen without gaining a measure of power needed to spread it and defend it. It depends to what end Jihad is done. The basis for having an Islamic state during the time of the Prophet SAW was to consolidate power and organize in order to spread Islam rather than be an unweildy group of believers. The cause for which power is used determines its legitimacy.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

I agree with poic. How are these sorts of things not obvious to people?

[psyah]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Peace All

Picoico, USResident and PyariCgudia

I'm going to address the red-herrings in the answers that have collectively been presented.

For clarification:

I am not of the anti-Jihad mindset nor do I promote that passive mindset.
I am not anti-effort or anti-struggle I am for excellence, indeed I promote excellence and encourage it in every halal act in all persons.
The basis for the Islamic state was because of establishment of the Deen at a social and cultural level. It has never been about the assuming of power, though a convenient side-effect may have been consolidation of power.

Now let's get back to the topic:

This is my stance on

"Quran - Book Says get power - Mulla says, we are going to die any way, why bother"

I don't agree with this statement. I have not heard this from any "Mulla" nor have I understood the taking of power as a mandate for a Muslim.

It is however, a requirement to do dua for becoming leaders of the pious in Surah Al Furqan towards the end you can read this.

Also, with the previous ayat in Surah Aal-e-Imran verse 26 ... Allah (SWT) tells us that Power is something bestowed by Him. We can not possibly take it, nor should we try to take it at all costs.

We should understand that the leader most worthy is the one who does not take glory in the authority of it, but fears the responsibility in it. It will be a characteristic of the Mahdi that he will refuse so much to accept bayah that he will need to be forced to accept it. Incidentally the secular voting system of self-campaigning is geared towards the exact opposite of what Islam requires. The people should choose those people most qualified and least wanting of that position.

Look at the example of the Imams

This does not mean that we should not try to be our best. Of course we should.

When Allah (SWT) says He gives power to whomsoever He Wills this is not a roundabout way of saying that He gives power to all who strive for it.

The understanding in it is:

If a tyrrant is given power then that is because of the state of the Ummah, not because he deserves it the most.

If a pious person has been given power then that is reflection that the people have selected a good person to lead them. Allah (SWT) has rewarded them with a leader who represents them in the best way.

Ultimately power can only be received by Allah (SWT) therefore I can't see how Allah (SWT) is telling us anywhere to seek it out. So this logical derivation that Allah (SWT) only gives power to those who have earned it is a false derivation. Bush of all people has done nothing to earn his power, but he has it. It has been given to him by Allah (SWT).

The Shari'ah is only the system that puts Rule and Power in the Laws of Allah (SWT), and Jihad is the struggle to put all things beloved to Allah (SWT) in great priority over other things. This includes the Law of God over the love over our lives.

Now, as far as an answer goes ... "Mulla says we are going to die anyway why bother"

I can't see this being said anywhere. Many "Mulla" types are actually very stern and power hungry creations of Allah (SWT). It is more like the passive sectarian groups who say the statement above. You see when we disagree with something we need to look at the whole thing for consistency. Then this 'die anyway' ... part makes no sense to me either. Death is an integral part of our belief system. We need to remember it always for it is that that will keep us from the harm we inflict upon ourselves and others.

Many prophets were not given power but were overpowered by their enemies, it is not to say that they were lazy auzdubillah, rather Allah (SWT) gives power to whomsoever He Wills.

[psyah]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Its people like you guys who twist the meanings of the Quran to basically excuse your own pathetic performances in life. Oh its okay beta if you flunked all your classes because you were too worried about your hair and your new Nike sneakers and your new Gameboy, you're still a muslim and you're still going to heaven because you know what? Doing well in this life and avoiding being a financial drain on your family is not something Allah wants of you anyway!

Peace Sister PyariCgudia

I try my hardest in life. But this means according to you above, I must be a liar, or if I am what you say, one of the flunked pathetic performers, then please pray for me that Allah (SWT) increases my wisdom and knowledge and gives me tawfiq to be a muhsin (excellent).

Jazakillah khair

[hareem01]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Please someone show me the ayah that says " get power "....I will accept it without any argumentation.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Like I said, it depends on how you define "power". If you're talking about money grubbing and just-for-the-fame type power, then of course, that's not encouraged. If its the type of power that just boosts your prestige, like a title or an honor just to make yourself feel like you're better than everyone, then of course, its not encouraged. But everything is not black and white, and that's where your problem is. You demand that either power is haraam or its halaal, and you are not willing to see all the subtle gray areas in between.

I define power as knowledge. As being able to control your inner beast. As being noble and good to people. That kind of power is very acceptable in Islam, and you'd be hard pressed to find something in the Quran that asks you to avoid becoming knowledgable, in control of yourself and good.

I think Psych probably agrees with this.

[picoico]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

But thats " Strive or struggle in the way of Allah.....to be among the muflihun(successful) " . It doesn't say " Strive or Struggle to get power "

If what you mean is that there was something falsely attributed to a statement in the Quran, it wasn't my point to question that.

But it's folly to think that we shouldn't empower ourselves or seek it as part of our struggle. It's not an end goal, but a means to the goal...

[hareem01]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Like I said, it depends on how you define "power". If you're talking about money grubbing and just-for-the-fame type power, then of course, that's not encouraged. If its the type of power that just boosts your prestige, like a title or an honor just to make yourself feel like you're better than everyone, then of course, its not encouraged. But everything is not black and white, and that's where your problem is. You demand that either power is haraam or its halaal, and you are not willing to see all the subtle gray areas in between.

I define power as knowledge. As being able to control your inner beast. As being noble and good to people. That kind of power is very acceptable in Islam, and you'd be hard pressed to find something in the Quran that asks you to avoid becoming knowledgable, in control of yourself and good.

I think Psych probably agrees with this.

You have explained the word " power " in good and bad meanings quite nicely. But I think instead of saying " Quran says get power " it should've been " Quran says strive or struggle in the way of Allah " . As the word " power " can be misleading especially for the non-muslims. Hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Uh yeah, that would be why I DEFINED power and went to the extent of emphasizing that the word "power" has different meanings. If we hold to that, then it is only common sense that our Ummah should be trying its best to attain some power in this world.

Now, if you wish to keep disagreeing just to keep disagreeing, then fine. But anyone who's really reading the statements here is clear on the fact that we're all in agreement on one thing. Muslims need to get off their duff and make achievements in this world, and that there is NOTHING wrong in someone who is ambitious for the right reasons.

[USResident]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

@psyah

The basis for the Islamic state was because of establishment of the Deen at a social and cultural level. It has never been about the assuming of power, though a convenient side-effect may have been consolidation of power.

Br. Psyah

I think this part was a reply to what I had stated. I think you misunderstood what I had meant. The establishment of the deen at a social and cultural level is not possible until you have the power to defend it from the external influences. I do not mean that we strive for power in the sense that people fear the power of a muslim nation (imperialistic desires) but in the sense that we are able to keep our own while still co-exist peacefully. We must be prepared to meet any eventuality that meets out faith. Such power needs to be harnessed in all significant aspects of life i.e. faith, military, justice, economy, technology and politics. Individual ambitions as long as they do not cross the boundaries set by Allah SWT are permitted and useful to the ummah.

[deedawar]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

@Tariq_Akhtar

Some key ones are missing:

Quron says think - to many believe mullas saying otherwuise

Quron says believe and be faithful - mulla interprets it as stop thinking and blindly follow

Quron says Respect..many interpret it as command others

How about:

Quran says: Read. (The first revelation)...but we look for excuses including blaming mullah/moulvi for our shortcomings and laziness.

" Mulla made me do it" type of analogy is getting old now.

Find new excuses.

Nice post by hanibal.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Insult of Islam is Muslims

Of course its getting old. Its time people stop listening to self-proclaimed maulvis and try to understand Islam by actually picking up the Quran and reading it own their own for a change.