INS registration (merged)

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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From Kelli Arena
CNN Washington Bureau
Tuesday, December 17, 2002 Posted: 9:08 AM EST (1408 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) – Male nationals of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan visiting or studying in the United States must report for fingerprinting and photographing by February 21 as part of an anti-terrorism program, the Justice Department said Monday.

Men older than 16 from 18 countries in the Middle East, Africa and Asia had already been ordered to register with the Immigration and Naturalization Service or face arrest and deportation. Monday was the deadline for men from five countries – Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Sudan.

The Justice Department had been criticized for not including Saudi Arabia – home of 15 of the 19 September 11 hijackers – on the original list of countries falling under the program.

Justice officials said Monday’s additions were the result of an ongoing review process and that more countries could be added.

The registration requirement applies only to non-immigrants residing in the United States, including students and visitors, who arrived before September 2002. Since then, visitors from the listed countries have been registered when entering the country.

January 10 is the registration deadline for men from 13 countries – Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Eritrea, Lebanon, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen.

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Confusion over Pakistanis’ registration in US
By Khalid Hasan

WASHINGTON: There is confusion over whether certain categories of Pakistanis visiting the United States are required to register with the Immigration and Naturalisation Service (INS) or not.

“We have checked with the INS and so far Pakistan is not on the list of countries requiring registration,” Mohammad Sadiq, deputy chief of mission at the Pakistan Embassy, said on Monday. However, Imran Ali, an officer dealing with immigration matters at the embassy had a somewhat different story. He said most Pakistani males between the ages of 16 and 46 had been ordered to register while entering the US. He said there was no deadline in such cases. Each was told on entry by what particular date to register. He advised those who had been asked to do so at the nearest INS office to comply, since the discretion of the INS official at the point of entry into the US was “unlimited”.

Reports circulating Tuesday assert that men from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan will be required to register with the government under a programme intended to fingerprint and photograph citizens of countries suspected of exporting terrorists. However, according to UPI Jorge Martinez, an INS official, on Monday denied reports that INS has added Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Armenia to the list of 18 countries whose nationals require registration while visiting the US. However, other reports claim that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan were added to the list Monday, bringing to 20 the number of countries covered under the registration programme.

According to AP, “Both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are considered US allies in the war on terror, but both have also had questions raised about their levels of commitment. In particular Saudi Arabia was recently put on the defensive against allegations it was doing a poor job of disrupting terrorist financing and even may have inadvertently made payments to one of the September 11 hijackers.”

The latest registration notice affects males from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan who are age 16 or older and entered the United States on or before September 30, 2002. If they plan to stay in the United States into late February, they will have until February 21, 2003, to register and provide documentation to the INS about their visit.

The announcement coincides with a registration deadline Monday for a similar programme affecting men from Iraq, Iran, Libya, Sudan and Syria. Men from Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Eritrea, Lebanon, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen face a registration deadline of January 10, 2003.

According to the INS, those who fail to register can be deported. The requirement does not apply to permanent residents, men with INS Green Cards, or to naturalised citizens from those countries. Diplomats are excluded, as well as those who are seeking or have already been granted political asylum in the United States. Women and children are excluded because their numbers would have made the programme impossible to administer, Justice Department officials have said.

UPI has estimated that more than 3,000 men from the five countries on the first list need to register by Monday evening. Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan and Syria are also on the US State Department’s list of countries that sponsor terrorism. More than 7,000 males from the 13 nations on the second list are required to register. North Korea is the only non-Muslim country on this list.

The Muslim-American community is in an outrage at yet another instance of what it calls ‘racial and Muslim profiling’. Jason Erb of the Council on American-Islamic Relations says the government has done little to spread the word in the Muslim and Arab-American community about the registration requirement. Many people may find themselves in violation of the law without realising it.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_18-12-2002_pg1_4

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Talwar, have you ever tried obtaining the Passport? This is not the ID card we are talking about, getting a passport isnt so easy son.

As for this news, although nothing can do be done now, but we should all thank musharraf for blindly supporting the Americans... I am not siding with the Mollahs or the Fundos (or even that osama creature here) but Musharraf should have made sure that before offerring full support to his real masters, he should have made sure such things would not happen later on.

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Yes Spock, I know it is not easy. You have to steal them first :smiley:

http://www.dawn.com/2002/02/08/nat8.htm

**2,000 blank passports stolen in Peshawar **

By Shafiq Ahmad

PESHAWAR, Feb 7: Two thousand blank Pakistani passports were stolen from the post office at railway station, Peshawar Cantonment, sources in police department disclosed here on Thursday.

They said that on Jan 30 a mail guard of the railway station post office, Aqil Mir, received 6,000 blank passports in six boxes, which was sent by the Security Printing Press, Karachi, by Khyber Mail.

On the next morning when hewas relinquishing his charge to his colleague, two boxes containing 2,000 passports were found missing from the godown where he kept them the whole night, they said, adding that the robber neither broken the door nor the lock.

Taking immediate action, Pakistan Railways Police, arrested Aqil Mir and on-duty sorter of the post office, Mohammad Asim. The railway police remanded both the suspects for two days and later sent them to the central jail, Peshawar. No clue to the theft was found during the remand, sources said.

They opined that an international gang dealing with travel agents were involved in the crime, adding that all the investigating agencies had started probe but all of them were still clueless.

An official of the Peshawar Passport Office, requesting anonymity, expressed his concern that there must be an international gang which would use these passports to send illegal aliens abroad. “The robbers can also use these stolen passports in other countries as all the concerned agencies were given their numbers for strict vigilance,” he added.

He said that the weight of 1,000 passports box was 41 kilograms and it was very difficult to take away two boxes by a single person. He said that the worth of these stolen passports were about Rs 40 million in black market as some criminals in the guise of travel agents sell one passport for at least Rs 20,000 to Afghans and other countries’ nationals living in Pakistan illegally.

The General Post Office (GPO) Peshawar has taken departmental action and suspended five of its officials including superintended Jamshed Khan for showing inefficiency, sources added.

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Pakistani passports have been harder to get recently, but with events like this theft, one can only wonder what happened to them.

Back in the 80's many fghans who could afford it bribed passport officials to get passports. We had Pakistani passports in circulation which were as counterfeit as a picture change, or a passport under soemone's name but then the holder assuming the identity of this person i.e. rafiq khan asks adeel ahmed to get him a passport, and now travels on a passport with adeel ahmed name with with his own picture, to as solid work as the entire passport process being manipulated. Does anyone recall afghan drug traffickers being caught with Pak passports?

hopefully with bettertechnology and controls these things could be stopped. now with high tech counterfeit or fake or stolen passport detection svcs etc

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Pakistan City Known for Passport Trade

“Anywhere you go in the world, if you find Pakistanis with fake documents, you’ll find someone from Gujrat,” said Mirza, who runs a travel agency on the grounds of Gujrat’s sports stadium and has six British Airways outstanding sales performance certificates on his wall. He wouldn’t give his last name.

…an official from Pakistan’s Federal Investigative Agency says some 70 percent of fake travel documents come from two cities just 30 miles apart – Gujranwala and Gujrat.

This is what the United States fears: that in the serpentine bazaars of Pakistani towns like Gujrat, out of investigators’ reach, fake Americans and fake American visitors are being created with cameras and laser printers and the intricate work of forgers’ skilled hands. While many of the illegal travelers are simply looking for better-paying jobs, it is a route open to terrorist exploitation.

“They have very good printing presses. And they have very good forgers,” Javaid Shani, a supervisor in Gujrat’s police department, said Saturday. “If the inspectors at the airport have a difficult time identifying the fakes, how can our people do it well?”

Reported prices in Pakistan have ranged from $220 for a fake Egyptian visa to $25,000 for customers who want to go to the United States.

“If the embassies treated Pakistanis right, they wouldn’t need to forge visas,” said Sajid Syed, manager of the al-Tayyab Travel Agency. “I know my country is not full of terrorists. Why don’t other governments realize that? We simply want new opportunities.”…

“Countries like ours, we are underdeveloped. Our people want new opportunities,” said Nishat ul-Haq, a Gujrat native who has family in England. “We’re not all bad people, us Pakistanis.”

Though many say relaxing visa requirements would solve matters, that’s unlikely any time soon. Besides, says Shani, the police officer, that could cause another problem entirely.

“If there were not these restrictions,” he said, smiling wanly, “half of Pakistan would leave.”:rotfl:

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http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_6-1-2003_pg1_3

Pakistanis want Musharraf to rush to US to get them off the hook

By Khalid Hasan

WASHINGTON: Pakistanis assembled at the Pakistan embassy here on Saturday demanded that President Pervez Musharraf should travel to the United States to bring an end to their “hunting and harassment” by the US immigration, police and intelligence officials.

And here ist he reason why this SOS for Musharraf to come to rescue of Pakistanis : Daily Jang: Urdu News - Latest Breaking News update Pakistan - jang.com.pk
Read the second letter
Waiting for help

Mannan Kaukab

I am a Pakistani student in Atlanta, USA. I want to direct your attention to a very serious problem current to our community in America and to our nation in future.

Fact No 1: Despite all of our cooperation and efforts to be a frontline state in war against terrorism, American Department of Justice has included Pakistan in its list of suspected enemies and has declared Pakistanis an enemy nation.

Fact No 2: Pakistani citizens in America who are required to register with INS are about 250,000 to 300,000, according to a survey conducted by Pakistani students association in Atlanta.

Fact No 3: Out of this stated population about 85 percent Pakistani immigrants. Are either out of status or have some deficiencies in their visa documents and therefore, they are subject to removal before February 21,2003 according to new INS laws. (Indian, Bangladeshi and other nationals are not subject to this scrutiny.)

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"fact#3 " makes no sense...how can 85% of 200000 to 300,000 pakistanis be of questionable visa's or out of status? Where did these numbers come from?

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85% may be an exaggeration by the writer, based on his own visa status (and probably the friends he moves around with in US), but even a drastic reduction from that figure to say 25-25% would mean a lot in terms of repatriation, if that comes to that.

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If this report is to be belived there are only 50,000 odd pakistanis in US. And planeloads of Pakistanis have already been deported.
"With several plane loads of Pakistanis already deported, there is understandable panic that some or all the 50,000 may face a similar fate. "

Barefoot to US

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Jagjeevan: *
"fact#3 " makes no sense...how can 85% of 200000 to 300,000 pakistanis be of questionable visa's or out of status? Where did these numbers come from?
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, just as exaggerated as Dhirs claims of an American Intelligence Acency (which operates in India ;) ) that was almost about to invade Pakistan after sept 11th, haha

What a bunch of jokers...

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Seeker, while you ponder who is saying what and who to blame, meanwhile this will help you a bit to keep you in high spirits
http://www.paknews.com/main.php?id=2&date1=2002-12-29
You land up in JFK and they look as if we are coming from Afghanistan. **One INS official even pointed out “why do you all make so much trouble man everywhere ??” **

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There are more illegal Indian immigrants than Pakistanis. Go figure.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Jagjeevan: *
how about answering the question?
[/QUOTE]

Ok Ok...yeh man you dont look fat in that dhoti of yours...khush...mil gaya jawab..

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http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/world/4914685.htm

Immigration Rules Confuse Pakistanis
NAOMI KOPPEL
Associated Press

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Sometimes it’s difficult, Pakistanis say, to remember they’re supposed to be citizens of a U.S. ally.

In return for their support in the U.S.-led war against terror, many say they have faced only discrimination. Now, by forcing Pakistani nationals in the United States to register with immigration authorities, some here complain Washington is effectively accusing all Pakistanis of being terrorists.

“We don’t deserve this treatment from America, especially when we did everything for the Americans,” said Sabir Shah, who lives in the eastern city of Lahore.

Foreign Minister Khursheed Kasuri says there is a “deep sense of disappointment and concern” that Pakistanis living in the United States are among those from 20 countries whose nationals must be photographed and fingerprinted at Immigration and Naturalization Service offices.

“Highly humiliating,” complained Shaukat Ali, 38, who runs a cloth shop in the southern port city of Karachi’s Saddar bazaar. “The Pakistani government should also make registration mandatory for Americans, like it is for Pakistanis in the United States.”

The countries named are ones whose citizens are considered most likely to create a risk to U.S. security. Pakistanis were added to the list in December and have until Feb. 21 to register or risk deportation. When the deadline for visitors from five other countries expired last month, hundreds were detained for not complying.

There are hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis living in the United States, many of whom are believed to be illegal immigrants who face deportation if they are caught. Among those living legally in the country, only men aged 16 and over are required to come forward. Permanent residents who hold green cards are exempted.

Despite heavy opposition from some Muslim clerics and concerns even from moderates, Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf decided after the Sept. 11 attacks to ally the country with Washington in its war against terrorism.

The action against Pakistanis living in the United States has led more people here to question that policy.

“The rulers sided with America against people’s wishes and now they are so helpless that they cannot save their own people from American hatred,” said Maulana Usman Yar Khan, 52, a leader of the Jamiat-e-Ulema Islam party in Karachi.

In the streets of Pakistan’s cities, ordinary people also said they were worried by the move.

“The Pakistanis who are working in America are not criminals,” said Lahore shopkeeper Tashir Qayyum, 35, his face covered with a scarf against the cold. “They should not be harassed or punished just because they are from Pakistan.” :whine:

In Peshawar, near the Afghan border, former government worker Mohammed Zaman said people like his son, a student and part-time restaurant worker in the United States, should be appreciated, not harassed.

“Pakistani immigrants make a very positive contribution to American society,” he said :hehe:. “America is a nation of immigrants. If they continue with such discriminatory policies, they will be negating their own philosophy of democracy and providing equal opportunities.”

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The whole idea of INS registration is a crap idea. Why INS think that terrorist or people with terrorist links will admit their guild and their attentions???

I think it more to do with collecting the information on people living in the US from those countries where anti-american feelings are growing. I guess they want to stop another case like Amil Kansi.

As far as pakistan is concern, In think it is more to do with state of security of our country. In a country where anyone can get passport or id card and all sorts of fake documents can be made, and authorties have no or little attention to address these problems.

These feeling are not in US, but shared by many countries including muslim countries that it is very easy in pakistan to get pakistan passport or id card. Just at the thousands of afghans who have travlled on pakistani passport. Out of these thousands, I know few who travled on Pakistani passport and now seeking asylum in UK.

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I find it a bit odd to read comments from people in Pakistan which say "We don't deserve this treatment from America, especially when we did everything for the Americans". Correct me if I am wrong, but the people of Pakistan did zilch for America except to take out protests outside airbases used by United States. It was the government of Pakistan (a non-representative dictator government to boot) which sided with US and helped them in the war in Afghanistan.

I bet, any poll conducted in Pakistan (at any time) will say that an over-whelming majority of people in Pakistan oppose US and its policies (notwithstanding that they will still want to stand in line for hours to get the cherished US visa or immigration).

And oddly enough, it is also true that our own Pakistani police regularly publicizes arrests of people in Pakistan (many of them Pakistani citizens), who are charged with planning terrorist activities (against Pakistan and/or US interests).

If I were a US law-maker or INS decision-maker, none of these give me any comfort-feeling about a green-passport carrying person who is arriving in the US. Trust me, as a Pakistani who had to register with INS, I feel the whole thing sucks, but its a no-win game. We gotta admit that there are many citizens of Pakistan who are either planning to or wish to do damage to US.

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Its not the INS which chooses to do these registrations
Homeland Security .... theyre running the show

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by D500s: *
Its not the INS which chooses to do these registrations
Homeland Security .... theyre running the show
[/QUOTE]

Whoever is running the show, does not matter. The main thing is idea completley non sense. It is causing lot of missery to other nationalities and specially to the muslims.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by D500s: *
Its not the INS which chooses to do these registrations
Homeland Security .... theyre running the show
[/QUOTE]

Nopes..It is the Justice Dept...Attorney General John Ashcroft