Infoman and his intellectual reasoning

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

Changez_like Bhai, I dont need a faith. I hve reason and some things make sense and some dont. I accept what makes sense to me and reject those that dont.

Logically there has to be a god as the origin of everything. Beyond that God and me dont owe each other anything. But, I do admire Gods work. Just think about the Cosmos, "Kamaal kar diya hai" So much to know and understand. "But not from people who have a hot line with God"

Regarding kissing flies and mosquitos. they are too small. But, yes I kiss the people and pets in my life.

42

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
**Changez_like Bhai, I dont need a faith. I hve reason and some things make sense and some dont. I accept what makes sense to me and reject those that dont.

Logically there has to be a god as the origin of everything. Beyond that God and me dont owe each other anything. But, I do admire Gods work. Just think about the Cosmos, "Kamaal kar diya hai" So much to know and understand. "But not from people who have a hot line with God"

Regarding kissing flies and mosquitos. they are too small. But, yes I kiss the people and pets in my life. **
[/quote]

So you don't beleive in "reward and punishment" concept? and you don't beleive that God would interfere in any of its creations' matters?

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

43

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
*The gene machine that makes proteins in our body is very much similar to the gene machine in animals. The insulin that we make in our body is no different - with minor variations - from the insulin that is made in pigs or other mammals. You see the evolutionary connection here. *
[/quote]

why would this connection necessarily be a 'evolution' connection? In our own "vast science" field, we use one design as basis for making other products, don't we? does it prove 'evolutionary' theory? NO, but it might prove 'creativity'.

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

44

INfoman and others on this thread, tell me one thing where in the Quran God is referred as "He". Don't tell me about the translations in to English and other languages. In the Arabic text Allah is not referred ad HE, She or any such thing. Infoman sorry to inform you this but your question is baseless. Allah (GOD) is neither he or she and this is spelled out very clearly in Quran.

45

Changez_like Bhai, "Rewards and Punishments" are used by Humans and even Animals to encourage and discourage certain type of behaviour in other animals.

People, society and governments offer rewards and deliver punishment because they want something to happen. This want makes them needy. God is above and beyond that. He has no need or wants.

So why would God use "Rewards and Punishments" as tools for "Behaviour Modification" of humans.

Zara soocho yaar!, Allah miya ko kya zaroorat hai Insaan say Panga laynay ki?

Kya kisi nay Allah Miya ki duty laga dee hai ke 24 ghante "Tanhaa" ko gor-e-nazar rakhain?

Luckily I am a good guy, so he has thrown lots goodies my way. But do I thank him, No Way. He doesnt need my thanks. He is just doing his job.

46

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
**Changez_like Bhai, "Rewards and Punishments" are used by Humans and even Animals to encourage and discourage certain type of behaviour in other animals.

People, society and governments offer rewards and deliver punishment because they want something to happen. This want makes them needy. God is above and beyond that. He has no need or wants.

So why would God use "Rewards and Punishments" as tools for "Behaviour Modification" of humans.

Zara soocho yaar!, Allah miya ko kya zaroorat hai Insaan say Panga laynay ki?

Kya kisi nay Allah Miya ki duty laga dee hai ke 24 ghante "Tanhaa" ko gor-e-nazar rakhain?

Luckily I am a good guy, so he has thrown lots goodies my way. But do I thank him, No Way. He doesnt need my thanks. He is just doing his job. **
[/quote]

hmmmm, let me think. Then if Nawaz Sharif loots national wealth, he should be okay. If all these dacoits kill and loot, it should be okay as thats ALL THEY GOT. If US and UK bomb Iraq it should be OKAY. If Osama bin Laden really had struck US embassies, it should be okay. If Tim McVeigh bombed government building in Oklahoma, it should've been okay. Why did human being need all these laws.

Government laws learnt lessons from religious books, and made laws for punishments to straighten out human behavior, not the other way around.

If God didn't want HUMANKIND to be "good" human being, why do we find civilizations that are destroyed? Moenjo Daro, Harappa, and many many more civilizations we find worldwide. All of them were "victims" of 'natural disaster'??? Why did God not protect them?

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

47

Changez_like Bhai, we were talking about God. As far as Nawwab Sharif and others go, they are humans, they have treated fellow humans badly, and fellow humans can punish them according to human beings laws, rules and regulations. Can we keep God out of it.

After all who knows what God wants?? You think its guys "who have a hot line to God" ???

For me Its better not to know, than to to know and be wrong( like the people with a hot line to God)

[This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 07, 2001).]

48

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
**Changez_like Bhai, we were talking about God. As far as Nawwab Sharif and others go, they are humans, they have treated fellow humans badly, and fellow humans can punish them according to human beings laws, rules and regulations. Can we keep God out of it.

After all who knows what God wants?? You think its guys "who have a hot line to God" ???

For me Its better not to know, than to to know and be wrong( like the people with a hot line to God)

[This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 07, 2001).]**
[/quote]

so you prefer "ignorance?

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

49

Every thing Relative my friend.

Ignorance is better as compared to listening to someone saying "God told me this and that? "

Believing that "God told someone something" is worse.

Forcing people to believe that you have heard it from someone, who heard it from some else, and who heard it direct from God is not even funny.

"Total hearsay evidence"

Choro in baatoo-n ko. Mazhab ke alaava Duniya main aur bhee bohut say gum hain.

Chalo yaar ab aur koi gum galat karte hain . Ek baat aur hai Changez_like Bhai. I enjoyed our discussion. The best part is that we did not stoop to name calling. Its always quite satisfying when we can agree to disagree and be friends.

[This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 07, 2001).]

50

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

Actually, this is my beleif too “everything is relative”. So when you said about hear-say and ‘heard from GOD’ is worse, you are ridiculing several religions there, I suggest to keep these type of comments to yourself, otherwise we’ll be back to where we started “who is better” discussion.

In your beleif being away from ‘hear-say of Allah words’ is better, than be it, I beleive in Allah’s words in Quran and people who researched on this book from different perspectives also beleive it to be true (that it is ‘word of God’). So you stick to your claim, and I’ll stick to mine.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/soldier.gif

We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?

51

Im sorry Changez_like Bhai, if you felt that I was rediculing many religions. That was not the intention.

I was suggesting how I evaluate information. Strictly on the basis of logical analysis and discussion of the subject. Who the author is and from where the information came, to my mind, does not carry too much weight. For me the Bible , Koran the Geeta etc, are all good books and invaluable because the content makes sense. Not because it is the word of God as told to some one. I hope you appreciate the distinction.

Again I'm sorry if you felt I implied that my logic is any better than any one elses.

We all have our own ways of accepting and rejecting data for our own personal use.

[This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 07, 2001).]

52

Tanhaa

Just in case you missed the point, Muslims use the Qur'aan as a form of Guidance. We make a statement that noone in the world has been able to disprove. Including much more
learned scholars than you.

The Qur'aan is the only scripture on the face of the earth that is still in it's original format.

The Qur'aan in the only Book that is personally protected by it's Creator.

015.009 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

The Qur'aan IS the Word of God.

036.007 The Word is proved true against the greater part of them: for they do not believe.

003.003 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

What do you use as guidance! Please elaborate.

Secondly, there is a challenge in the Qur'aan, which to date is still outstanding for 1400 years:

002.023 And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

The shortest Surah is only 4 lines long. The Qur'aan is not asking for a whole book, only 4 lines!

The Qur'aan also states:

002.002 This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

002.003 Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;

002.004 And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.

002.005 They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.

As far as you are concerned, please do not despair. The Qur'aan has also mentioned you as well:

002.006 As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

002.007 Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

Whether you owe your Creator anything or not is for you to decide.

I'm sure you woke up one day and decided what was right from wrong without resorting to any teachings.

I wish I could say the same. I would of avoided Parents, School, University, Work and the whole Human race.