Infoman and his intellectual reasoning

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
All religions are man made, nobody has ever seen God. If there is God (a power or a creator) he doesn't care whether we worship him or not...human beings are small potatoes in scheme of things.
[/quote]

Everything is done for a purpose ain't it, say your father brings you up...does he expects anything of you????

Do you really think you are evolved from APES....In other words you ancestors were APES.

[This message has been edited by kingshah (edited August 06, 2001).]

Kingshah Bhai. Why stop at apes! Before apes were other species and before that were single cell life forms and before that were viruses and before that inanimate matter and before that the elements, and before that electrons , and protons and before all that was energy , and that energy is my ancestor and creator.

we evolved from apes it is common sense
of all the animals whic is close to
humans?

Hindus have been able to reconcile their Vedantic monism ( with their Vedic polytheism: All the individual Hindu gods (who are said to be saguna,”with attributes”) are subsumed under the godhead (nirguna,”without attributes”), from which they all emanate.

Tanhaa,
You have interesting things to say.

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
*Baby Doll, The all mighty has no need or want or desire to be loved, worshipped or feared. *
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I agree wholeheartedly with this.

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
These are human traits and of value only to humans.
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Agreed! Worshipping God is human trait and has Value only to us but not to GOD.

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
** If the almighy needed or wanted any thing, then he/she/it is not almighty any more. Wants and desires are shortcomings of man.**
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YES!

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
The questionas to why he made Man!..
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Why not? Does GOD have to have reason for creating anything? And if GOD has a reason then what makes you (&me) think that we will be able to have a full grasp and understand it perfectly.

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
well, was it a mistake?
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GOD is capable of committing a mistake?

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Was he lonely?
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You are thinking like a human and answering on behalf of GOD.

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did he need some one to worship him? Who knows ? It really pathetic ignorance when someone says I know what god wants of us.
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NOPE. HE doesn’t need us.

Now, if GOD is in front of you telling you what he wants you to do. You have a choice to either obey him or not obey him. And if someone say I've seen GOD and GOD wants me to do this and this and this, then it is his/her freedom to follow their conviction.

And if you haven’t seen GOD and have no believe in him whatsoever then you too have your freedom not to believe in anything

[quote]
*And my way is the only way to reach him. What arrogance! *
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I just don't know how to answer this. I guess GOD should be able to answer this.

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
*we evolved from apes it is common sense
of all the animals whic is close to
humans? *

[/quote]

Then that is the only difference between our ancestors and yours.

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
*we evolved from apes it is common sense
of all the animals whic is close to
humans? *

[/quote]

Then why don’t all apes evolve to Human Being? Why do we still have apes today?

RVIKZ

I've explained in a previous thread, that Darwins theory is impossible. However, because you have committed yourself to this theory by confirming your Evolution from Apes. (That is why some Hindus worship the Ape looking God).

I now challenge you to prove Darwins Theory.

I am reposting my response, just in case you need some help:

Charles Darwin a clergyman, graduated from Christs College, Cambridge University and with no previuos background in medicine or biology, claimed that man was an animal who had evolved from unicellulor organisms and had descended from the apes. A lot of scientists jumped on this bandwagon, and soon the myth called evolution was going full speed. This view was taught for years in all educational institutions as if it were a fact of science.

Not only do Scientists such as Duane Gish, R.B Geldshmidt, Jeremy Rifkin, C.H. Waddington, Pierre Paul Grasse, Stephen Jay Gould and Professor Macbeth disagree with Darwin, but modern facts also crush the theory.

1 - Cellulor structure is identical and not primitive or evolved as evolutionists originally claimed.

2 - According to evolutionists, evolution cannot be observed today as it takes place gradually, in millions of years. However, in recent years a new island (Surtsey) was born near Iceland in submarine volcanic upheavals and hundreds of thousands of insects and plant species emerged there within ONE year.

3 - Evolutionists believe that evolution occurs through MUTATION. The fact is that MUTATION is never constructive; it is DESTRUCTIVE! Up to this day, noone has obtained a new organism from the Mutation of another.

4 - The skeletons that evolutionist claimed to link man and primates ( Piltdown Man) was proven to ba a FAKE. The brain of a primate weighs 130g and that of a human 1350g.

I can go on and on and on, but it will be a bit too deep for some people.

There can be no evolution in Physics as heavier elements cannot be formed by Hydrogen.

Mathematically Evolution is IMPOSSIBLE. For a worm to be formed from an amoeba, 39x10x20 squared alterations are needed in its genetic code. Which would take 10 trillion years at a rate of one change per second or to be more precise, 500 times the age of the universe!
For an ape to evolve from a man, it would take 3x10x520 squared alterations. This number of years would be so great that we cannot even approach the figure, even if we were to take a fourth of that figure.
Just for comparison, the total volume of the universe in terms of diameter of an electron does not exceed 10x124 squared. No you know why it is mathematically impossible.

Biologically Evolution is IMPOSSIBLE. To this day noone has been able to change ONE CISTRON using scientific methods.

The fact remains that there is NO such scientific creature as evolution like Darwin describes. It is an imaginary theory and philosophy.

In other words they are UNTRUE.

I'd get started if I were You!

A worldwide research program has come up with astonishing evidence that humans have come so close to extinction in the past that it’s surprising we’re here at all.
Pascal Gagneux, an evolutionary biologist at the University of California at San Diego, and other members of a research team studied genetic variability among humans and our closest living relatives, the great apes of Africa.
Humanoids are believed to have split off from chimpanzees about 5 million to 6 million years ago. With the passage of all that time, humans should have grown at least as genetically diverse as our “cousins.” That turns out to be not true.
“We actually found that one single group of 55 chimpanzees in west Africa has twice the genetic variability of all humans,” Gagneux says. “In other words, chimps who live in the same little group on the Ivory Coast are genetically more different from each other than you are from any human anywhere on the planet.”

The branch lengths illustrate the number of genetic differences, not only between species, but among species as well. The pruned bush for humans shows how little genetic diversity exists. (Marco Doelling/ABCNEWS.com)

The Family Bush
“The family tree shows that the human branch has been pruned,” Gagneux says. “Our ancestors lost much of their original variability.”
“That makes perfectly good sense,” says Bernard Wood, the Henry R. Luce Professor of Human Origins at George Washington University and an expert on human evolution.
“The amount of genetic variation that has accumulated in humans is just nowhere near compatible with the age” of the species, Wood says. “That means you’ve got to come up with a hypothesis for an event that wiped out the vast majority of that variation.”
The most plausible explanation, he adds, is that at least once in our past, something caused the human population to drop drastically. When or how often that may have happened is anybody’s guess. Possible culprits include disease, environmental disaster and conflict.

Almost Extinct
“The evidence would suggest that we came within a cigarette paper’s thickness of becoming extinct,” Wood says.
Gagneux, who has spent the last 10 years studying chimpanzees in Africa, says the implications are profound.
“If you have a big bag full of marbles of different colors, and you lose most of them, then you will probably end up with a small bag that won’t have all the colors that you had in the big bag,” he says.
Similarly, if the size of the human population was severely reduced some time in the past, or several times, the “colors” that make up our genetic variability will also be reduced.
If that is indeed what happened, then we should be more like each other, genetically speaking, than the chimps and gorillas of Africa. And that’s just what the research shows.
“We all have this view in our minds that we [humans] started precariously as sort of an ape-like creature” and our numbers grew continuously, adds Wood. “We’re so used to the population increasing inexorably over the past few hundred years that we think it has always been like that.”
But if it had, Gagneux notes, our genetic variability should be at least as great as that of apes.

A Stormy Past
Gagneux is the lead author of a report that appeared in the April 27 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The study, carried out with researchers in Germany, Switzerland and the United States, is the first to examine large numbers of all four ape species in Africa.
“We can do that now because new technology allows us to non-invasively take some hair, or even some fruit that these apes chew, and then we get their DNA from a couple of cells that stick to a hair or a piece of fruit they chewed.”
Then they compared the DNA variability of apes and chimps to that of 1,070 DNA sequences collected by other researchers from humans around the world. They also added the DNA from a bone of a Neanderthal in a German museum. The results, the researchers say, are very convincing.
“We show that these taxa [or species] have very different amounts and patterns of genetic variation, with humans being the least variable,” they state.
Yet humans have prevailed, even though low genetic variability leaves us more susceptible to disease.
“Humans, with what little variation they have, seem to maximize their genetic diversity,” Gagneux says.
“It’s ironic,” he notes, that after all these years the biggest threat to chimpanzees is human intrusion into their habitats. When he returned to Africa to study a group of chimps he had researched earlier, Gagneux found them gone.
“They were dead,” he says, “and I mean the whole population had disappeared in five years.”
Yet as our closest living relatives, chimps still have much to teach us about ourselves.

Lee Dye’s column appears Wednesdays on ABCNEWS.com. A former science writer for the Los Angeles Times, he now lives in Juneau, Alaska.

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The gene machine that makes proteins in our body is very much similar to the gene machine in animals. The insulin that we make in our body is no different - with minor variations - from the insulin that is made in pigs or other mammals. You see the evolutionary connection here.

Baby Doll, just a little bit of analysis.

We like all living beings do things, say things with a purpose, either consciously or sub-consciously. Our survival depends on these activities.

God the all-mighty CANNOT have any needs wants or desires. Because then he wont be all-mighty and will be like humans.

Therefore from the above, it should be obvious to us humans that, God should be quite aloof of mans activities. AT least it is impossible for Man to know about his plan , if there is a plan.

Therefore , any human being who says " I know what god wants of us, because God has spoken to him" is sadly mistaken and deluding himself and others. Because God by definition CANNOT have a desire to communicate.

The above analysis does not mean that the Bible, Geeta, Koran, Torah etc are not good for humanity. They have a lot of wisdom but are obviously mans work and can be improved upon as circumstances change. By invoking them as Gods work that cannot be changed, we find ourselves open to so many contradictions.

So when someone says that "God has spoken to him and he has the one and only way to Salvation" then that is the height of hipocracy and arrogance. Anyone who believes that, without using his own brains, will always be a puppet in the hand of such people. Its like the blind leading the blind.

One last point. We should be good, not because God says so. We should be good because then others will be good to us. Its in our own self interest to be good fair and honest. Social and Political and Governmental rules and regulations are made by people for their own self interest and good. Shouldn't we leave God out of the picture and keep him/her/it hidden in our hearts??

[This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 07, 2001).]

Sholay: Why so bitter? You are the one who called me illiterate and I just provided you with my literacy qualifications.

Nudniks like yourself are the reason why the world just cannot “evolve” into a higher level of thinking.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

As far as the query on “he” said. “she” said. I have given my understanding. The mere fact that you said bible and the torah refere to god as “he” and they are written by man, directly points to quran being written by man as well, if it is the culmination of the books and refers to god as “he”.

there are things ultimately we cant explain
that where religeious theory comes in fills
the vacum.

God must be illiterate.
It is Hindu or jew religious books, quran and Bible, all of them are full of incorrect notions and theories. Only out of fear or and to establish supremacy we interpret all these versions at our ease.

When Bible was being created the native people had no information of American land. So is with Quran that its geographical information is very limited.
In all religious books a lot is written about stars, moon, sun etc only because these things were always visible. And we boast that our so and so prophets had all knowledge of cosmos long long back.

why india china and africa never mentioned
in religious book which is not in another planet? why not these truths are not
revealed in similtanesly and live so that
we humans have no doubt about it.

If god loves us so much, why did he wait so long to send his messenger and reveal the truth? What happened to all the people before Jesus, Ram, Mohammad and Buddha? They were doomed for no fault of theirs. Is that Gods Justice? Why did God reveal himself to only a few. Why not the whole human population. Why didn't he/she/it make all of us good in the first place? There is no end to questions which have no answers.

Yet, there are people who think they have a direct hot line with God. And there are other people who swallow that stuff happily.

[This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 07, 2001).]

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
**If god loves us so much, why did he wait so long to send his messenger and reveal the truth? What happened to all the people before Jesus, Ram, Mohammad and Buddha? They were doomed for no fault of theirs. Is that Gods Justice? Why did God reveal himself to only a few. Why not the whole human population. Why didn't he/she/it make all of us good in the first place? There is no end to questions which have no answers.

Yet, there are people who think they have a direct hot line with God. And there are other people who swallow that stuff happily.

[This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 07, 2001).]**
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again, you are ignoring the Islamic claims.
Allah has sent more than 100,000 messengers. First human being was a messenger. Few of last are Ibrahim AS, Mosa AH, Jesus Christ(Essa AH), Mohammed PBUH. does it make clear to you that Allah didn't wait for such a long time???


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
*Kingshah Bhai. Why stop at apes! Before apes were other species and before that were single cell life forms and before that were viruses and before that inanimate matter and before that the elements, and before that electrons , and protons and before all that was energy , and that energy is my ancestor and creator. *
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Tanhaa, then you might wanna kiss these flies and mosquitoes as they might be your relatives. j/k
Science is a study of ???
Science as of today is not fully matured, why'd you want to base your faith towards CREATOR on science?


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
why india china and africa never mentioned
in religious book which is not in another planet? why not these truths are not
revealed in similtanesly and live so that
we humans have no doubt about it.

[/quote]

because in religion, there is no boundary limit. religion is not for a specific country/boundary. it is universal. Quran does not even say Arabian peninsula, does it? Does it talk about Syria, Jordan, Sudan, Somalia? NO.


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[quote]
Originally posted by Tanhaa:
**If god loves us so much, why did he wait so long to send his messenger and reveal the truth? What happened to all the people before Jesus, Ram, Mohammad and Buddha? They were doomed for no fault of theirs. Is that Gods Justice? Why did God reveal himself to only a few. Why not the whole human population. Why didn't he/she/it make all of us good in the first place? There is no end to questions which have no answers.

Yet, there are people who think they have a direct hot line with God. And there are other people who swallow that stuff happily.

[This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 07, 2001).]**
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and there will be people who'll beleive in EVOLUTION.


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?