and mr. abdullah, i am an ahmadi and i woud be pleased if you do not associate wrong beliefs with my religion.. thank you...
......yehee ho ga na woh ghussay main hum ko gaaliaan dain gay?
sunaain gay humain woh kuch jo na pehlay suna ho ga!
hum un kee talkh guftaaree pay hur giz kuch na bolain gay...
jo bigray ga to moon un ka, hamara hurj kya ho ga?
I think there has been a lot of trouble due to the fact that some terms have not been defined at the start.
Who is a muslim?
Who is a non-muslim?
Who has the authority to (interpret the hadis and Quran and)decide this?
Unfotunatley, like many people who hold strong beliefs, we forget that if we really believe in Allah then we should realise that our duty is to live as well as we can and leave the final decision to Allah. It is harder, much much harder to be tolerant, upright, and honest in all our daily dealings with other people and ourselves than to criticise others. My dear brothers and sisters, I would like to issue you an invitation and a challenge. For this month of Ramadan, let us not look at the wrongs committed by others but by those which we do ourselves. At the end of every day let us think what we could have done better. Let's try and be more generous, more loving, more forgiving and less judgmental of others, whatever their declared beliefs. Let's remember we are all human beings, and the only life over which we have control and responibility is our own. Allah Subanahu'Ta'la will only judge us on our actions and not of others.
alhumdullilah!!
i applaud you shirin, for these words of wisdom, which i hope we will all reflect upon...
Dosto
Asslam alakum
I do say like many of you have said before noone have the authority to say who is a muslim and who isn't. I also say that everyone should have the right to have his own religon. And also belive that none should be judged by who he is what color he have and what is his religon. And sure I also apreciate that a few of westren contries (not westren colture) have laws like a Islamic state should have. and yes I know that our country don't have yet the true Islamic culture developed.
BUT I am sorry. NOONE should ever think that the laws described by Allah brought us by Quraan can be changed cause some looser says that it is against humanity? to kill someone cause he have killed an innocent person. is it justice?
and if it is than what should we do? cangratulate him? or send him to prison so when he gets back he can kill the rest and give those who have the criminal minds an aproch that nothing will happend?
sorry for you people who think that you are more intelligent than Allah (Nausu-u-Billah)
None can decide that what is good for us than Allah.
and Allah have told us what to do In Qurran.
Now it is up to us We obey or disobey.
Adnan Younas
Assalam O Alaikum
Many of the people here are Mashallah well educated but have no sense of what Islam is or what Quran is and what Sunnah is. If you ask them anything they will tell you like if they are the most learned Alim in the world but infact what they will tell you is the essence of Christian / Jewish cultural education given to them without their knowledge which most of them will not agree with.
For example, if we say Parda is must in Islam, many sisters and even brothers will be against it and will refer the Women Rights and will try to play with words to convince their point without any proof from the Quran / hadith. This is because the lack of religious knowledge but if you tell them this, they will laugh and say they have more knowledge then you.
Sister Shirin presented a very good essay but from islamic point of view it gets zero marks because of its non islamic contents.
In Quran Allah SWT mentions about a nation which was destroyed (wrath) and all the people good and bad suffered, the good ones because they didn't stopped the bad ones. So sister shirin if you are good you have to stop the bad one.
There is one hadith of Prophet SAW in which he says that all of you are responsible and which one of you will be asked about his / her responsibility. So our reponsibility are our children, our subordinates and everybody who is effected by us. So Sister Shirin will you follow your rule in case of your children also, i mean let them do what ever they do, just keep an eye on yourself. No, i am sure you will not do that, then why you dislike the idea of a Muslim brother / sister advicing his/ her brother / sister about Islam, may be because you do not believe in Islamic brotherhood.
Prophet SAW says no one of you is Muslim unless he likes for his brother what he likes for himself.
Allah SWT will judge us on our deeds not on other deeds is also WRONG, who told you about this, He will ask you about your children also, that Did you told them to follow Islam, Did you stopped you brother / sister from doing a bad deed, which you would not do and know is harmful for him and many others ... Please for God sake learn the truth before saying anything which will misguide / mislead others also.
As far as you think that a person cannot be termed Muslim and non Muslim by a MORTAL human being then i think everybody in the World can be termed Muslim, no need of any religion, because the identity of religion is lost, the conditions of beign a Muslim is lost, anyone can be a Muslim and no one can be a non Muslim.
Why we support this thought ? So that no one can point a fingure on what we believe / act. Take an example of Ahmedis, the first and foremost point they will raise is no one is allowed to say a Kalima sayer Non - Muslim.
I think its time that we should learn about our religion, learn what Quran says, learn what Sunnah says and then think like a Muslim and then comment on a religious issue.
I hope everybody will understand this.
Assalam O Alaikum
[This message has been edited by Abdulla (edited December 23, 1998).]
Assalam-o-Alaicum
I don't want to offend anybody. I am writing
this because I love you brothers and sisters
for the sake of Allah.
I support br Abdullah 100%. We
should educate ourselves about Islam. If
someone try to give us advice, analyze it
according to Islam ( Quran and Sunnah).
Quran and Sunnah is base of our religion. If
we try to argu based on something else, it
will go on and on, and we won't get results.
There is one thing that if we are not
practising something, it does not mean that
we oppose it. No one here is perfect Muslim,
but if someone is convaying us verses of
Quran, and hadiths of our beloved prophet
SAW, listen and try to impliment on our
life. I have seen statements given in this
discussions that are totally against the
orders of Allah SWT and Sunnah of Prophet
SAW. I assume these statements are given by
our Muslim brothers and sisters not knowing
that they are denying the orders of Allah
and Way of Rasul-ullah SAW. Had we had
enough knowledge about this, we had not
dared to say it. One of the condition of
being Muslim is TO ACCEPT ALL THE
COMMANDMENTS OF ALLAH BY CONFIRMING BY
SAYING AND ACCEPTING THEM BY HEART ( WA
QABIL TO JAMEEAH AHKAMI, IQRARUM BIL LISANIH
WA TASDEEQUM BIL QALUB). May Allah forgive
us all.
Br. Abdullah
Please be kind with people. I know what ever
you have qouted ayaha of Quran and Hadiths
of our Prophet are true, but do not call
them names. As they are claiming themselves
a Muslim, atleast they consider themselves
Muslim. It's our duty to educate them in a
good manner so they can become good Muslim.
They can correct their basic idealogy about
Islam. Majority of Muslim population don't
have enough knowledge of Islam. It's a duty
of those who have knowledge to teach them(
with hikmah).
I agree with abrar, but Abdulla, I can also understand your frustration at some of the replies to your comments. True, we can never see inside the heart of a person to know whether they are muslim or not - but as muslims we should not dismiss something which Allah has said simply because we don't like it. Allah (swt) has revealed:
"Fighting is prescribed upon you and you dislike it, but it maybe you dislike a thing and it is good for you. And it may be you like a thing and it is bad for you. Allah (swt) knows and you know not." [TMQ 2:216]
The Prophet Muhammad (saw) said, "None of you truly believes until his desires conform with what I brought". (Muslim)
Dear Muslims,
The self-proclaimed protectors of faith often forget that learning is a two way street. In their zeal to parrot traditions they overlook the human factor of change and time.
When the discussion reaches a point of conflict accusations will fly. The classic and most recently used is "You are not a Muslim". The personal attack is a symbol of defeat. When men resort to such low behavior and claim exclusive rights to divine Wisdom, I smell hypocrisy.
Then we have our usual Traditionalists with their favorite Chant :
" You either Obey or Disobey"
But I think what they wish to say is:
"You either obey my Perception of Orthodox Islam or you are a Kafir "
Frankly I remain Disobedient to the perceptions that hands be cut, women be stoned and Homosexuals be killed.
I do however remain Obedient to Compassion and several other references in Koran and Sunnah that call for logic, forgiveness and human kindness.
I would also like to remind our dear Traditionalists that this argument is not recent. It took place centuries ago in Iraq under the Glory of Islam.
The Mutazilites who favored interpretation of Islam through Reason were in philosophical conflict with the Traditionalists.
So just to let our emotional Brothers know that we liberals are not soley a product Of the West but our views lie deep in compassion and the history of Glorious Islam.
Stud
Stud>Frankly I remain Disobedient to the
Stud>perceptions that hands be cut, women be
Stud>stoned
Stud>The Mutazilites who favored
Stud>interpretation of Islam through Reason
Stud>were in philosophical conflict with the
Stud>Traditionalists.
Br. Stud according to you orders of Allah in
Quran about theft, and adultary are not
logical, and hence (naozu billah) not valid.
[This message has been edited by abrar (edited December 23, 1998).]
There is no compulsion in Islam to follow a certain method of punishment.
I view the cutting of the hand, stoning for adultery and killing of homosexuals as unesesary for our times.
I do not suport stealing or Adultery and I think the Quran lays emphasis on morlaity.
No where in the Quran does it say that If hands are not cut or people are not stoned such a state is wrong or imoral.
I think it is high time we move away from our obsession to kill, cut and stone and try and adapt the essence of Islam which is personal morality.
Why is this so hard to digest ?
Stud
Assalam O Alaikum
Shaikh Ibrar, brother i just want to tell them that rejecting anything from Quran or Sunnah will make them Kafir. Wallah i have nothing with them and like you i want there betterment only.
Brother Special2
Mashallah, exactly the ayat i wanted to show them, thank you very much. Now i hope they will not have anything to say.
One more ayah for those who believe some and reject some is presented below:
002.088
YUSUFALI: They say, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah's Word: we need no more)." Nay, Allah's curse is on them for their blasphemy: Little is it they believe.
PICKTHAL: And they say: Our hearts are hardened. Nay, but Allah hath cursed them for their unbelief. Little is that which they believe.
SHAKIR: And they say: Our hearts are covered. Nay, Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief; so little it is that they believe.
Brothers and Sisters
ISLAM is submission to Allah SWT completely, to be a Muslim, you HAVE TO believe everything in Quran and said by Prophet SAW. Nothing less nothing more.
There is nothing like ORTHODOX ISLAM, or MODERN ISLAM or TRADITIONAL ISLAM or CONSERVATIVE ISLAM. There is only one Islam which is same as it was at the time of Prophet SAW and it is for upto the day of Judgement. You CANNOT reject or change or mould anything to your liking or to fit what you believe or do.
Stud
As far as personal morality is concerned, I guarantee you, you act what ever is there in the Quran / sunnah, you will be one of the best person on the Earth and on the day of judgement one of those on whome Allah SWT will shower His blessings.
Wa ma lainaillalbalagh
Assalam O Alaikum
Br. Stud.
Assalam-o-Alaicum
I have to disagree with you. Our beloved prophet SAW himself orderd hands to be cut ( on theft), and to stone a woman ( on committing adultry). Had there any alternatives according to Quran and Sunnah, he would have adopted that alternative. As far as this time and age is concernd, Quran and Sunnah is for all the times til the day of judgment. If it was not the case, Allah would have told us in His Quran. May Allah give us right understanding of Islam. Br. we should always ask Allah to guide us to the right path, as He is the one who guides us.
Br. Abdullah
I did not mean that you are being rude, or you do not love them. Indeed you love them that is why you are trying to convay Ayas of Quran, and hadiths of Rasul-lah SAW. All I was asking to be patient. Because when you convey the truth, hardships come and we are being commanded to have paitens.
Vassalam
I am not an Islamic Scholar. I am a product of asian muslim roots and western culture.
No-one who lives in this world is a product of pure islamic influences. By definition, if you are using e.mail, you have some western influence in your life.
Admitted, I probably know much less than you learned people.
BUT:
your way of speaking is not going to increase love for islam or understanding
AND:
even a learned person can learn something from someone who knows much less than them.
AND:
there is no end to the lessons of learning or humility in our lives.
I am very hurt by the rigidity and hate shown by those who call themselves Muslims. I pray that Allah will illuminate all our paths.
Assalam O Alaikum
Sister Shirin
If you are pointing towards me, i am sorry if i was harsh in conveying the message. You said very true that even a learned person can learn from someone who knows less, but again if you are pointing towards me, i want to clear that i am not an Alim or a scholar, or any shaikh, i am just a very normal person like you and you know Allah SWT says in Quran "Allah knows and you know not". So true that no one has complete knowledge and we learn until the day we die.
Prophet SAW once said "addeeno naseeha" "religion is advice (naseehat)" three times. So you can imagine the importance of advicing our brothers and sisters.
Again if anyone is hurt by my way of talking, i am very very sorry.
Assalam O Alaikum
Wstern influence means what? West is not monolithic. Arranged marriages were not uncommon a hundred years back in Jewish and some other communities in Europe. Children stay with their parents till they 30 in Italy and even after that in Russia. One should say modern values vs. orthodox values.