Assalam O Alaikum
Brothers and Sisters
As i can see most of you are from the West [US, Canada, Europe]. I just want to know from you people what do you think how the west has influenced you. In what way has it helped you and what are the disadvantages. And how would you compare yourself with someone living in Pakistan or any other Muslim country ?
Assalam O Alaikum
Salaam Brother,
This is a really good question. When I was younger I considered England to be great, absolutely fabulous. I was growing up with non-muslims who obviously had no religious beliefs and therefore had no limits in their lives.
It was when I started Secondary School, that I began to feel out of place. Well, so did many others, but we put it down to our Culture. We dressed according to our culture, we had a different up-bringing then the non-muslims, for example they would go out after school, often to parties, discos, and messed about. So we often felt that we should also be doing these things, why wern't we allowed, it wasn't bad.
I then began to question everything, and I didn't stop until I got the answers, it wasn't our culture - which we were slagging off, but it was a mixed up version of our religion. So I began to study Islam and came to a conclusion that what all these people were doing was in fact incorrect. Many of my class mates who were from the same background as myself, began to imitate these others, and started going out a lot, seeing boys/girlfriends, which they believed to be correct.
It is only now that I know that the West is so corrupt. They make you believe one thing which is totally incorrect.
For example do you really believe that people like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair along with a string of others are dealing with the worldly affairs - I don't think so!!!
I believe there is a few people sat up there making all these bloody decisions and 9 out of 10 will be based on Islam. They will make Islam look like a craze, a daft religion that has no meaning. Woman are kept indoors and have no equality, etc, etc. all so that everyone believes this notion. They just use people like Tony Blair as puppets, so they get critised and people would hate them and their ideas, whereas the real culprits are sat there watching.
I can go on, but I won't. When I studied Sociology, it did give me an insight to what really happens. People are classed under different classes, gender, ethnicity, age, etc. even though they make out that we are equals - and go on about equality laws - huh.
dear freind, there is nothing called a west
it is all our imagination...
do not be so intolerant towards people of other races and color
look into your own problems instead of looking for others faults
why do we have to compare ourselves always with others?
what is our problem?
there is no culture that is true!!!
everything has a right to be here
and be tolerant again
do not be so square minded and fanatic
I think most of u people om this site need to learn tolerance
I think that is the true purpose of all religions
be more humanistic
read more of Krishnamurthi
do not condemn others
and learn to look above your own nose
preach love
and harmony
not hate and intolerance
but first of all understand yourselves
and you will understand others
lots of love Assia
please I do not want to receive fooolish commnents!!!
Salaam!
I have been living in New York for 15 years now. A lot of people have this stereotype about the younger generation of Muslims here being corrupted and being "Americanized". I don't blame them for thinking this way because the majority of them are. But I consider myself much better off then people back in Pakistan.
My parents, since the beginning, have set down rules which I made it my duty to follow. While all the kids hung out after school, went to restaurants to eat, movie theatres, parties, etc. I was expected home right after, not a minute late. If I was going to be late for some reason, I had to call and let my parents know, and they would also follow up on this.
I am not complaining about this. I am very lucky that my parents have treated me like this even in a country where there are so many temptations.
Being in college now, in my first year, I see the effects of people who have had much more freedom than me. I know a girl who has been here for 15 years as well and she's engaged to a guy, without her parents knowing. When I asked her how is she going to tell her parents, she replied that I know they are going to take it hard but what can I do? I was awed by the fact that this girl has no morality. The same girl usually stays after her classes hanging out with friends, going to bars on Fridays, when you are supposed to be praying. Her mother thinks that she stays after to study. I can't believe that how can these parents let their children go like this.
I am not saying that I am an angel. I still had times where I would rebel against my parents and lie to them. But now I understand why they did what they did.
Despite all this I have had a very good tarbiyat. I haven't forgotten how to speak Urdu as most people do, once they come here. I can also read and write it.
Summing it up, even though the Western culture has influenced me in many ways, I still haven't forgotten "our" culture, something that I will pass on to my children and hopefully raise them up well.
Chillin' like a Villain
Stylin' and Profilin'
The western Culture is superior to our Desi Culture. The sooner we adapt to it the better it is for all of us. Freedom for women, prosperity for all. That is the west.
Stud
Stud,
Every culture has its cons and pros...that doesn't mean every thing that glitters is gold...if u want to c the real face of western culture...go to those night clubs and nude bars...where a women is made to display her nude body just so that she can feed her hungary childern...is that what u want to adopt my friend???
[This message has been edited by Muzna (edited December 14, 1998).]
This is a valuable discussion thread.
Please refrain from posting irrelevant messages so that it can progress in a sensible fashion.
Thank you.
[This message has been edited by Admin (edited December 14, 1998).]
Assalam O Alaikum
Brothers and Sisters
Thank you all for your comments.
One thing which most of the people here complain is intolerance but they do not look themselves, i mean just take an example of sister Assia Khan Jee (with due respect) she gives a very fine description of her thought and in the end .. well and i know i am being intolerant now :)
The reason for this is (i am sure everybody will agree with this) we do not love each other any more and as a result of this we do not respect each other, we have forgotton the values of our religion and our culture (which again is related to religion only). Islam teaches us brotherhood which we need the most today.
Har baat pey kehtay ho tum key tu kia hay
Tumheen kaho key yeh andaaz -e guftagu kia hay
Assalam O Alaikum
[This message has been edited by Abdulla (edited December 15, 1998).]
Muzna G!!
ye kia zulm kia aap ne, meri posting kis khosi mein edit ki??? I don't thing there was
any thing objectionable in my posting...infact I've seen rather vulgar postings on this forum and no one notices it
I just tried to explain my point of view...
its simple nonsense that just cuz u have previlages, u can cut out any even a sensible
postings based on your personal likes and
dislikes...I strongly register my protest!!!
Muzna, What is sensible...you think you got all the senses of the world, haan...
WEST IS THE BEST! :)
I have often thought about this.
It is human nature to think that whatever we don't have or have lost was best. Look at the way people talk about the past, golden ages etc. but if you really look hard you will see that people lived in miserable conditions and were worse off than us.
WE all want life and its choices to be simple. They never were and they never will be. Human beings complicate everything with their ideas, biases, etc. Well that's life.
People often ask me here whether there is spiritual superiority in the East. I always say that there is good and bad everywhere. The world we live in is to a great extent our own making and choosing. There are fine people in the most materialistic and corrupt societies, and there are criminals in highly spiritual ones.
What I really appreciate in the West is:
You can make a living by hard work and without licking peoples shoes.
What I really appreciate in the East is the fact that there is something beyond material goods.
I am sure there are others who can expand on this!
And if GupShup is a product of the Eastern Culture and Western Technology just think what potential there is for combining the best of both worlds!
Assalam O Alaikum
In this thread, i can see people having two point of views. The first one saying we should stick to our values, our culture and our religion, second one prefers to have a broad mind and openness and do prefer to accept moral values from west which they think are better.
I would not agree with the idea of Sister Shirin that the people before us were worst than we are. (both materialistic and moral values), taking an example of an Islamic era where people use to go out on streets and shout any body needs money (to pay their Zakat) and no one to accept it. Ofcourse they didn't use to have a TV or a Computer or a Car or an Aeroplane but yet they were more satisfied spiritually and had limited goals to accomplish. I wonder in what way we are better than them ??
Can i ask what kind of society will you prefer to live in ? and do you think a society which is totally islamic will be acceptable by the Muslims today, including yourself ?
Assalam O Alaikum
Frankly a Western Society is much preferable to me.
I dont want people being flogged for having sex by consent , I dont want to see people loosing their hands just because they stole something, I dont want to see women being stoned to death because they had sex with another man after marriage, I dont want to see the goverment arresting people who on dates , I dont want to see women being forced to do pardah , I dont want to see women stuck in the home , I dont want to see Homosexuals being killed because of their sexual oreintation , I dont want to be forced to grow a beard and certainly dont want to be hanged for speaking against relegion.
In simple words I dont wish or want an Eastern Or Islamic Goverment .
The west is Superior.
Lets admit it and adapt to it and move on .
Stud
Stud,
People take religion to extreme which in most cases is not appropriate as you can see the living example of "Talibans". As for your statements, WEll:
Sex by Consent is permissible as long as it is within a society's code of conduct.
The prerequisite for chopping one's finger in stealing conviction is that the local Government must have provided satisfactory means for basic necessity of People.
Stonning Men Or Women for Adultery is for the better cause of Society so it won't deteriate.
There's no problem whith Men and Women intercommunication as long as its proper. (Again, for the Good of Society as a whole)
Many eastern countries, Pardah is not mandatory. Even in Iran, Pardah means Visible face not hidden.
There's no restriction for women to stay home. As in many Islamic countries, Women work shoulder to shoulder with men in different industries.
Murder because of sexual orientation is not allowed in Islam. Although Homo Sexuality is forbidden, of course, for the Better of society as a whole. (Remember Qoom-e-Luuut)
Islam is not by force. U have to be responsible for your own actions, hence, Beard although favorable in Islamic society, not mandatory except in Afghanistan under Taliban.
Democracy is part of Islam whether practiced or not. Islam allows one to ponder on any subject with any objection as long as its decent. A person has right to quench his/her thirst of curiousity for knowledge.
Last three statements were your personal opinions and as an individual you have the right to have them regardless of their validity.
asalamu alaikum (peace be upon you) a beautiful greeting, from the east, myself, from the west! i was born in England, but after overcoming my identity crisis, realised that that many of the things i love/important to me, are from the east, eg.my parents, religion, culture, to name a few! other things however are from the west, my friends, opinions, education, open mindness! it was in the west that i came to appreciate my faith, id say 'europe ki hawa ne mujhe muslim bana diya!' i wish people like 'stud' could appreciate the beauty of islam, i agree with asya's comments about tolerating each other more, if we followed the best example of prophet Muhammed(pbuh) we would be successful. peace be upon you all...
Most of you people have not (it seems to me) differentiated between religion and eastern culture. If I’m wrong please excuse it.
I thing religion is primary. You can be culturally American or Pakistani or Chinese but still MUSLIM. Religion is a stronger device to convince children that they are answerable to a higher power and they must think before they act. Rebellion is not that attractive if it doesn't make logical sense (in my case). That is what i wish to instill in my children. (if god ever wills i get married and have them :))
I agree with Shirin you can find corruption in the EAST and the West and good in both too. I also believe that if you instill in children the idea that western society is all corrupt you ignore the teaching of tolerance in Islam and also the fact that our religion spans continents, colors and languages.
Now if that is being more Western or open-minded then I am. I don’t mind being called tolerant.
Living as Dessi raised in the US (23 y) I know no society is more superior but I have the option to choose what I believe is best from both using religion as my gauge. I like western creature comforts, tolerance and friendliness (especially in america). But, I like my eastern family and moral values. But all those things are Islamic also.
And easterner do not have the monopoly on family values. We just like to be pretentious and think so.
Assalam O Alaikum
Great, thanks everybody for your precious comments, but i would like only Muslims to take part in this discussion --> Stud.
Sister K.girl has mentioned a truth that religion is superior to culture, but i don't think we follow it. Like for example Pakistani culture is a mixture of hindu, muslim cultures but you can see islamic values very clearly and in this case to act on your religion becomes easy. For example a woman wearing a burqa can easy go around anywhere in Pakistan while in US or Europe if you wear a burqa everybody starrs at you.
Now there are two chances, Muslims living in the west may adopt some of the things from there culture e.g. women may stop doing parda. That means they have to mould themselves to fit in their society. The other possibility is that they may stick to their religion (if he /she is a strong character) so that he doesn't get effected by their society.
I want to know what most of the people do i.e. try to adjust themselves or the culture adjust itself to accomodate them.
Assalam O Alaikum
My friends: East, West, North and South are nothing more than just a labels to create intolerance, hate, war, Genocide and all other nonsense.
Every culture has it's GOOD,BAD AND UGLY they key is to take the GOOD and incorporate them in to your daily lives. No culture & race should have any supremacy over others. In final analysis TREAT ME AS YOU WANT TO BE TREATED! :)
T.T.F.N
And one more reason Western Society is superior is because they are not judgemental and dont like to Play the role of God.
As was Evident from Mr Abdullah's Message he has tried to hint that I am not a muslim .
Pakistan has already declared Ahmedis as Kafirs which is yet again an idiotic peice of legislation forced by the Mullahs.
I am glad I live in the west where my spirituality is between God and Man and I am not accountable to people who wish to make divine decesions based on limited perception.
Freedom Loving Stud