India's proud heritage

Med911 · January 5, 2015, 6:31am

Re: India's proud heritage

Yeah, but that's your personal belief. There has to be a distinction between what is believed on faith and what are verifiable facts.

Your really degrading your countries secular ethos when you inject your faith into your politics. The difference between "secular" India and the "Islamic state" of Pakistan then is more semantic then real.

Arleitter · January 5, 2015, 6:38am

Re: India's proud heritage

Med Bro,there is one more side to this.People of India were so much frustrated with Congress that they simply ousted Congress from power in a brutal manner.Now the victors are there in power.I do not know whether they will succeed in their agenda or not.Only time will tell.But I do appreciate the fact that they are giving importance to India's history and past.

Med911 · January 5, 2015, 6:40am

Re: India's proud heritage

Well, as far as im concerned, fanciful stories, whether you believe them to be fact or fiction, create a tinder box in which people with a hyper inflated sense of self importance, saddled with centuries of insecurities, and itching to regain their lost pride, go out and start attacking the perceived enemy who is presumable responsible for the loss of that pride. In the case of Hindutva, RSS, BJP etc, there is a long history of violence, particularly toward Muslims. How can you guarantee that this Hindu chest thumping wont result in more violence when already the Hindutva people are out converting Muslims and Christians, and i believe also trying to pick a fight with Pakistan at the border.

How is this nationalist rhetoric any different from the Nazi mythologizing of their own supposed origins from Aryans ?

Med911 · January 5, 2015, 6:48am

Re: India's proud heritage

Yes, thats fine. But there is a problem with that. One they are only appreciating Hindu past of India in a country that prides itself on diversity, while at the same time showing contempt for Muslims and Chirstians, hence staying silent on their conversion at the hands of those who consider both groups alien to the indian landscape. That doesnt augur well for a country in which Muslims are supposedly equal citizens that the govt suddenly starts endorsing the HIndu religion.

And TWO, your celebrating the Hindu religion, NOT Indian history. You might consider mythological stories to be fact, but that doesnt mean that we suddenly start teaching it as historical fact. The place for you to celebrate Hindu religion is in the Mandir or the countless Hindu festivals across your country. Your PM should not be spouting such things as he is a representative of Secular india and hence all Indians not just Hindus.

Arleitter · January 5, 2015, 6:50am

Re: India's proud heritage

Med911:

Well, as far as im concerned, fanciful stories, whether you believe them to be fact or fiction, create a tinder box in which people with a hyper inflated sense of self importance, saddled with centuries of insecurities, and itching to regain their lost pride, go out and start attacking the perceived enemy who is presumable responsible for the loss of that pride. In the case of Hindutva, RSS, BJP etc, there is a long history of violence, particularly toward Muslims. How can you guarantee that this Hindu chest thumping wont result in more violence when already the Hindutva people are out converting Muslims and Christians, and i believe also trying to pick a fight with Pakistan at the border.

How is this nationalist rhetoric any different from the Nazi mythologizing of their own supposed origins from Aryans ?

You know one thing?Both the sides cite acts of violence on each other for garnering support.Hindu factions quote atrocities by Muslims during partition and Mulims vice versa. Now both sides have their own stories .The same is the case with JuD in Pakistan.They spread the bitter hatred for Hindus and India through their rhetoric and same is with the case of Hindu factions here in India.Both the sides distort history and actions according to their choice.It is a non ending scheme.Even education can not bring in any changes.Because as far as I can see,even highly educated people become part of their agendas and this is the same in both the countries.

Hindu factions are upbeat about their past and they present their case in their way.Sipah-e-Sahaba,Let,their masters JuD etc are upbeat about Islam through their concocted versions.

Arleitter · January 5, 2015, 6:55am

Re: India's proud heritage

Med911:

Yes, thats fine. But there is a problem with that. One they are only appreciating Hindu past of India in a country that prides itself on diversity, while at the same time showing contempt for Muslims and Chirstians, hence staying silent on their conversion at the hands of those who consider both groups alien to the indian landscape. That doesnt augur well for a country in which Muslims are supposedly equal citizens that the govt suddenly starts endorsing the HIndu religion.

And TWO, your celebrating the Hindu religion, NOT Indian history. You might consider mythological stories to be fact, but that doesnt mean that we suddenly start teaching it as historical fact. The place for you to celebrate Hindu religion is in the Mandir or the countless Hindu festivals across your country. Your PM should not be spouting such things as he is a representative of Secular india and hence all Indians not just Hindus.

Med Bro,as far as Hinduism is considered,these are an integral part of it's structure.There is no Hinduism without these .Hinduism was originated in India.The Ancient India's history is the history of Hinduism.Vedas ,Puranas and Upanishad's are all part of Indian history,that form the spine of Hinduism.There is no question that these should be taught .

Now the question is whether they should be given an undue importance or not.I myself do not know the cap level of that.

And all Hindus are not Indians :)

Med911 · January 5, 2015, 6:59am

Re: India's proud heritage

Arleitter:

You know one thing?Both the sides cite acts of violence on each other for garnering support.Hindu factions quote atrocities by Muslims during partition and Mulims vice versa. Now both sides have their own stories .The same is the case with JuD in Pakistan.They spread the bitter hatred for Hindus and India through their rhetoric and same is with the case of Hindu factions here in India.Both the sides distort history and actions according to their choice.It is a non ending scheme.Even education can not bring in any changes.Because as far as I can see,even highly educated people become part of their agendas and this is the same in both the countries.

Hindu factions are upbeat about their past and they present their case in their way.Sipah-e-Sahaba,Let,their masters JuD etc are upbeat about Islam through their concocted versions.

Well fanatics are fanatics regardless of what side of the spectrum they are from.
But its not about the typical fanatic of the street. We are talking about the PM of India.

Now here is a man who claims to represent a secular nation, but is espousing Hindu ideology. Now I would be willing to excuse that, after all he is Hindu, but such comments should be reserved for his personal life and not made in political speeches. But even so, even that could excusable, but for the fact that he doesnt seem to hold other faiths in very high regard, which makes it all seem suspicious. Has he made similar speeches aimed at Muslims glorifying their contribution to India and their glorious past ?

Med911 · January 5, 2015, 7:04am

Re: India's proud heritage

Well that's fine, but modern day India is an entity comprising multiple historical narratives. Its not just Hindu, but Muslim, Chiritian, Buddhist, Sikh etc etc. Your PM is elected under a secular constitution which recognizes all these faiths as being equal. Hence the role of your PM is not to glorify one singular historical narrative (real or imagined), but acknowledge all and their contribution to the modern nation of India.
At that, he has been a complete failure so far. I mean I might even go so far as to say that his govt makes it apparent that Jinnah was right when he said that Hindus and Muslims are separate nation. Your PM obviously see's a distinction between Hindus and Muslims.

Arleitter · January 5, 2015, 7:07am

Re: India's proud heritage

Med Bro,he very well knows that India's available version of history(for schools and colleges) is mainly 1000-2000 years ago from now and it's history predated to it was not given importance in any way.Mr.Modi it seems he is trying to highlight that part.That's all.

Med911 · January 5, 2015, 7:13am

Re: India's proud heritage

Hey its your country...

Im just saying. Dont mix faith and fact, be proud of what is factual truth, and there is a fine line that should be maintained if you want the Secular moniker to be meaningful and not just in name.

Arleitter · January 5, 2015, 7:54am

Re: India's proud heritage

You know what Med Bro?We do not know whether those ancient India stories are myths or real.That is the reason I,in one of my earlier posts in this thread,commented about super natural powers. :)

Med911 · January 5, 2015, 8:54am

Re: India's proud heritage

Well, who knows, maybe they were ancient Aliens. Believe what makes you happy.

Arleitter · January 5, 2015, 9:00am

Re: India's proud heritage

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I would say they were earthiens and some of them had Time travel powers and some could visit other planets and other worlds.It is there in each and every religion.If Hinduism is contradicted on this,all other religions fall in the same gambit.

Who knows?

Jack_Sparrow · January 5, 2015, 9:04pm

Re: India's proud heritage

Samir_Mirchandani:

It was indeed strange to hear Modi said that so I looked it up in Rediff which had a fuller version. It is to do with a speech opening a hospital, looks more to shame Indians into better cleanliness and primary healthcare. A leader uses whatever language the people understand to push them forward.

Nobody is denying the state of knowledge and technology was far advanced in ancient India than now - except nobody in India or abroad understands how they did it.

Transplants, invitro, number system manipulations, flying machines using different propulsions, sound barrier shenanigans, space flight, molecular mayhem, end and resurrection of time, remote material manifestations...it is a scientist's duty to dream first. Without that we are doomed as a race.

We don't know how but we can certainly use these what can only called 'claims' as guides to areas of dreaming.

But having lost the methods, all you have is the heritage but the present is poverty. Is it so wrong to use Hindu accomplishments from Hindu mythology to motivate a country that is full of Hindus?

This is the part of the speech that makes me think as above.

"It is embarrassing to compare healthcare facilities in our country with those available abroad. Neonatal mortality is a matter of grave concern and so is maternal mortality.

"When a child falls into a borewell, families sit in front of TVs and the media gives a running commentary as gloom prevails everywhere, but we are hardly aware that hundreds of children die soon after being born. Many times, the mother and child both die for want of primary healthcare," he said after inaugurating the refurbished and partly newly-built H N Reliance Foundation Hospital.

Thanks for pointing this out. Its interesting how WE start salivating and jump to conclusions at the mere mention of that dreaded four letter word - MODI :D