India's accidental prime minister - BBC Report

An interesting article about Indian Prime minister Man Mohan Singh by BBC Correspondent.

(I personally believe that India is as much on the wrong side of the history on Kashmir issue as Israel is on Palestine issue. My Indian friends at this forum will out rightly reject this statement considering it a biased observation by a Pakistani but the attached article written by an unbiased writer also supports my viewpoint. )

India’s accidental prime minister
By Nick Bryant
BBC, Kashmir

When India’s premier visited the disputed state of Jammu and Kashmir for the first time since he took office in May, Nick Bryant was in Srinagar to hear him address the crowd and found the most significant message was “no change”.

Manmohan Singh speaks from behind a bullet-proof screen
Mr Singh became premier when Sonia Gandhi turned down the post

Standing behind what looked like a bullet-proof telephone box, with his back ram-rod straight and his head perfectly still, Manmohan Singh prepared to deliver perhaps the most eagerly awaited speech of his six-month premiership.

He was wearing his trademark sky-blue turban, a matching buttoned-up tunic and a scarf with the saffron, green and white of the Indian flag - less a fashion statement than a nationalistic avowal.

The venue was a leaf-strewn cricket stadium, the site of a famed one-day international in the early 1980s, when many Kashmiris in the crowd decided to cheer on Clive Lloyd’s West Indies rather than the Indian national team.

Insurgency

By the end of the decade, an armed insurgency against rule from New Delhi had taken violent hold - Srinagar was full of Indian soldiers, and its cricketers never returned.

Perhaps the most significant comment of Mr Singh’s visit came when he stated New Delhi was unprepared to grant any territorial concessions
Today the crowd was more friendly, but then many - perhaps the majority - had been bussed in by the Congress Party and its local ally.

Even moderate leaders of the Kashmiri separatist movement had decided to boycott this two-day visit.

Around the ground were larger-than-life posters featuring the enigmatic face of Sonia Gandhi, the Italian-born leader of the Congress Party, whose inner voice told her not to lead her country.

Indian Border Security Force soldiers in a gun battle with militants before Dr Singh’s speech
India says it will not to give in to separatist militants
That explained the presence of Manmohan Singh, India’s accidental prime minister - stiff and ill-at-ease, looking about as at home as Jane Austen at a Star Trek convention.

Just hours earlier, militants - suspected Kashmiri separatists - had already tried to sabotage the event. Overnight, two of them had taken up positions in a derelict cafeteria on a hillock within sight, if not range, of the cricket ground.

For three hours the Indian army tried to overwhelm them, in a hill-top assault with the sounds of gunfire and grenades echoing around the Kashmir valley. It was hardly the most auspicious start.

Frailty

Nor was the opening line of Mr Singh’s speech, delivered with such frailty and hesitancy that most of us didn’t even realise he’d begun talking.

Manmohan Singh
Mr Singh said $5 billion would be invested in developing the region

He speaks, not with the blustery rhetoric of a natural-born Indian politician, but in the measured tones and precise language of a natural-born technocrat.

A big-brain economist, his thoughts are better distilled in sums rather than sermons.

So, when he talks of India’s limited troop withdrawal from Kashmir, he says it’s a risk, but a calculated risk - a typically neat formulation.

And when he speaks of the problems of this disputed state, he talks of cash injections and infrastructure development.

The emotions and passions which the Kashmir dispute arouses seem completely alien.

Insoluble

But the stark simplicity of economic models helps explain why the problem of Kashmir is so insoluble.

map of Kashmir

You see, both India and Pakistan have long regarded this disputed territory as a zero-sum game where, if one side gains, the other side loses.

In New Delhi, at least, another calculation is also at work. If India compromises over Indian-controlled Kashmir, then other separatist movements will be emboldened, and its territorial integrity will be at risk.

Perhaps the most significant comment of Mr Singh’s visit came when he stated New Delhi was unprepared to grant any territorial concessions.

Dogmas

That has caused disappointment in Islamabad, where President Pervez Musharraf recently called for both sides to go beyond the dogmas of the past and to think afresh about this 57-year-old dispute.

General Pervez Musharraf
Musharraf’s suggestions on border changes were rejected by Singh
The difference in their personalities could hardly be more marked.

Musharaff is brash, impulsive and debonair, with a penchant for finely tailored suits and finely blended whisky.

One of the few things they have in common is that they both received at least part of their education in Britain, but Singh went to Oxford and Cambridge, and Musharraf went to Sandhurst.

That helps explain why the doctor loves Urdu poetry and the general loves his Glock pistol, which he keeps within reach in the back of his presidential limousine.

Odd couple

Whereas Singh prefers the mathematical, Musharraf prefers the martial.

The strange thing is that Singh grew up in what is now Pakistan, while Musharraf was born in Delhi.

So they stand as South Asia’s odd couple - committed, for the time being, to an ongoing peace process but wholly uncertain quite where it will lead.

Right now, India seems to favour the status quo - and the status quo equals stalemate.

If Mr Singh has made a new reckoning, then this week in Srinagar this famously introverted prime minister kept that thought to himself.

From Our Own Correspondent was broadcast on Saturday, 20 November, 2004 at 1130 GMT on BBC Radio 4. Please check the programme schedules for World Service transmission times.

It is laughable to compare Kashmir to Palestine for the one single reason that in both the cases Muslims are involved. The moderator Phoenix forgot to include Chechnya.

They are very much right that usually any campaign from centre is boycotted by Kashmiris. Pakistan has a plus point against us. And what is behind the screen of Kashmir struggle.

In the first round of militancy in Kashmir in 1989, first the Hindus from valley were asked to leave very politely, with an ultimatum of three days in advance. They had options to accept Islam or get killed.
Today can any one dares to oppose the strike called by militants in Kashmir?
Yes, here moderator is correct that the fear is common whether it is Kashmir, Palestine or off course Chechnya.

giving up land to pakistan will get bring peace with pakistan?

India is supposed to be the biggest democracy in the world; Nehru promised to the Kashmiris and the world that Kashmiris would be given the right to vote for their future. But here we have several hundred thousand (300k? - 700k?) troops occupying and abusing and humiliating civilians on a daily basis. Same as Palestine and Chechnya.

The arrogance and hypocrisy of the Indian govts. has been and is pitiable.

Give the Kashmiris their plebiscite and let them decide. Net gain of peace for India, Pakistan and Kashmir.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Awam ki Awaz: *
India is supposed to be the biggest democracy in the world; Nehru promised to the Kashmiris and the world that Kashmiris would be given the right to vote for their future. But here we have several hundred thousand (300k? - 700k?) troops occupying and abusing and humiliating civilians on a daily basis. Same as Palestine and Chechnya.

The arrogance and hypocrisy of the Indian govts. has been and is pitiable.

Give the Kashmiris their plebiscite and let them decide. Net gain of peace for India, Pakistan and Kashmir.
[/QUOTE]

how much you will sacrifice for kashmir more than indians ?
you will rather happy with status quo

When India was divided, kingdoms especially the bordering kingdoms were given the choice of joining either countries or becoming independent. Kashmir chose to be independent. But Jinnah would have none of it and send troops and tribals to capture Srinagar. It was only when they had reached Srinagar border, when the Maharajah of Kashmir signed the accesion of Kashmir to India. Indian army landed on Srinagar airport the same day and started to drive back the Pakistani regulars and tribals. It was only because Nehru wanted to show the world that he was a good boy he went to UN to complain about the Pakistani behaviour soon after the war started. Thus UN declared the then warring line the Line of Control. Officially India has papers to show that it owns whole of Kashmir including 'Azad Kashmir' and Northern areas, and understandably Pakistan wants Srinagar and the Kashmir valley it almost had in 1948.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Surya: *
When India was divided, kingdoms especially the bordering kingdoms were given the choice of joining either countries or becoming independent. Kashmir chose to be independent. But Jinnah would have none of it and send troops and tribals to capture Srinagar. It was only when they had reached Srinagar border, when the Maharajah of Kashmir signed the accesion of Kashmir to India. Indian army landed on Srinagar airport the same day and started to drive back the Pakistani regulars and tribals. It was only because Nehru wanted to show the world that he was a good boy he went to UN to complain about the Pakistani behaviour soon after the war started. Thus UN declared the then warring line the Line of Control. Officially India has papers to show that it owns whole of Kashmir including 'Azad Kashmir' and Northern areas, and understandably Pakistan wants Srinagar and the Kashmir valley it almost had in 1948.
[/QUOTE]

Well then..Let's talk about Junagadh, Hyderabad? Why were their rulers deposed and annexed to India. Face it Surya, your story has no legs. If you call Pakistani invasion of Kashmir as the root of the problem, then let us open up the pages of history for India as well.

The compromise solution is an idea that is foreign to Islam. The Westerners and those Muslims, who are loyal to this solution, have attached it to Islam in order to sell it to those who are not willing to make sacrifices in the name of Allah (swt). Instead, they seek moderation. They distort the limits and clearly defined rules of Islam in order to suit their needs and desires.

Kashmir belongs to Ummah, havent u heard of Sultan Abdul Hameed....

"Advise Dr. Herzl not to take any further steps in his project. I can not give away a handful of the soil of this land for it is not my own, it is for all the Islamic Nation. The Islamic Nation that fought Jihad for the sake of this land and they have watered it with their blood. The Jews may keep their money and millions. If the Islamic Khalifah State is one day destroyed then they will be able to take Palestine without a price! But while I am alive, I would rather push a sword into my body than see the land of Palestine cut and given away from the Islamic State. This is something that will not be, I will not start cutting our bodies while we are alive." - Sultan Abdul Hameed's refusal to see Theodor Herzl, founder of the Zionist movement

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by liveshoaib: *
The compromise solution is an idea that is foreign to Islam. The Westerners and those Muslims, who are loyal to this solution, have attached it to Islam in order to sell it to those who are not willing to make sacrifices in the name of Allah (swt). Instead, they seek moderation. They distort the limits and clearly defined rules of Islam in order to suit their needs and desires.

Kashmir belongs to Ummah, havent u heard of Sultan Abdul Hameed....

"Advise Dr. Herzl not to take any further steps in his project. I can not give away a handful of the soil of this land for it is not my own, it is for all the Islamic Nation. The Islamic Nation that fought Jihad for the sake of this land and they have watered it with their blood. The Jews may keep their money and millions. If the Islamic Khalifah State is one day destroyed then they will be able to take Palestine without a price! But while I am alive, I would rather push a sword into my body than see the land of Palestine cut and given away from the Islamic State. This is something that will not be, I will not start cutting our bodies while we are alive." - Sultan Abdul Hameed's refusal to see Theodor Herzl, founder of the Zionist movement
[/QUOTE]

can indian muslim settle in kashmir or buy land or conduct business?
what ummah?

I can never understand the meaning of Islamic nation. How Kashmir became Islamic?

If a Muslim lives in a flat, does it become Islamic for ever.

If we work as per guidelines of Quran, 'remove them from where they have removed you', Muslims will not left with any place to live.

Kashmir was earlier a sacred Hindu land, later came under Budhhist influence, so we have two claimer of this land and can remover the lator one as per Islamic guidance.

True, but theres only one minute problem, you dont follow the islamic guidance. So where does that leave you? Without Kashmir ofcourse. hehehehe

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: *
I can never understand the meaning of Islamic nation. How Kashmir became Islamic?

If a Muslim lives in a flat, does it become Islamic for ever.

If we work as per guidelines of Quran, 'remove them from where they have removed you', Muslims will not left with any place to live.

Kashmir was earlier a sacred Hindu land, later came under Budhhist influence, so we have two claimer of this land and can remover the lator one as per Islamic guidance.
[/QUOTE]

i dont think it is relgen how many indian muslims will go kashmir
rather than bombay to make a living?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ma Mooli: *
True, but theres only one minute problem, you dont follow the islamic guidance. So where does that leave you? Without Kasmir ofcourse.
[/QUOTE]

I can't believe this nonsense. If the unbelievers followed the same rule, all of "Islamic land" will be gone. Instead of all this bravado, let's face the facts...nonmuslim world is much more powerful than muslim world and could eliminate all the Muslims or ship them off to Antartica or somewhere else if they really wanted to. I think it is good that Allah keeps us weaker otherwise we would go around conquering all the lands in the world b/c they were originally muslim.

We need to be more tolerant in our views, otherwise all out warfare against Muslims may happen. All that is needed is one Al Queda nuke to hit a U.S. or European city. By holding such intolerant views, it gives the nonmuslim world a reason to just put all Muslims in the same basket as al queda and declare all-out war against Muslims. A small example of this just happened in the "most tolerant of countries" Netherlands when the moviemaker guy was killed. Also in Nepal, another usually peaceful country, when Nepalese were beheaded by extremists.

I was showing Rvik or was it anjjan, that his logic is seriously flawed. So where did all that come from? and how is it related to Kashmir belonging to India?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *

Well then..Let's talk about Junagadh, Hyderabad? Why were their rulers deposed and annexed to India. Face it Surya, your story has no legs. If you call Pakistani invasion of Kashmir as the root of the problem, then let us open up the pages of history for India as well.
[/QUOTE]

What about Junagadh and Hyderabad? Being an inland kingdoms there was hardly any option given to them. And the main thing is there were never any accesion papers signed by them joing Pakistan. So where is the issue. If Pakistan had taken Kashmir before they joined India, there would be no issue.

Intellectual

[QUOTE]
I can't believe this nonsense. If the unbelievers followed the same rule, all of "Islamic land" will be gone. Instead of all this bravado, let's face the facts...nonmuslim world is much more powerful than muslim world and could eliminate all the Muslims or ship them off to Antartica or somewhere else if they really wanted to. I think it is good that Allah keeps us weaker otherwise we would go around conquering all the lands in the world b/c they were originally muslim.
[/QUOTE]

Take Islam as an Ideology and have a look at Islamic history how Islam treated with non muslims everywhere in the world. We are not talkin here about to drive people of west to Antartica because they were not ruled by islam.

What Islam Says is drive them out where they drove u out is a case with Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq and many occupied lands. I agree these lands were not Islamic before but people of these lands at some time embraced Islam and decided to rule by Islam as in Kashmir, u cant support any legal document sayin Muslims came to kashmir and killed non muslims and made it islamic all u will hear or see is how muslims were tortured and Pages of koran were found in Toilets.

Bro. what U see happenin to Muslim ummah is because of Agent Rulers who have divided us into sections and U think we are weak, have a look at Falluja, the americans cant control two cities at a time, how could they have controlled falluja if just one more country had gone against Americans. We are muslims and victory comes form Allah SWT But Accordin to Sharia we have to be prepared. To Fight an Army we need an Army and Muslim Army not national Army who are bound by agent rulers....

**
What about Junagadh and Hyderabad? Being an inland kingdoms there was hardly any option given to them.
**

Oy hoye like Kashmir is on the Arabian Sea?

**
And the main thing is there were never any accesion papers signed by them joing Pakistan.**

Like there is an original instrument of ascension for Kashmir. The Nizam of Hyderabad wanted to be Independent just like Kashmir. The Nawab of Junagadh did NOT have enough time to sign any instruments of ascension...the Indians invaded, conducted a plebicite (which ofcourse went in India's favor)...Now mind you the Nawab of Junagadh had unilaterally decided to accede to Pakistan OVER the wishes of his largely hindu subjects...Sound familar?

Better hit the books son..this Rajput takes no prisoners..

**
So where is the issue. If Pakistan had taken Kashmir before they joined India, there would be no issue. **

Pakistan was going to take it, but did India step in?

As for the Instruments of Ascension...Let me know the location where an original copy of this document exists...then lets talk.

Kashmir was Pakistans..You may deny history, but our faith and shared bloodlines will forever unite us no matter if Kashmir is in Indias temporary control, Independent or part of Pakistan...Such is reality, now bring on the fantasy.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Surya: *

What about Junagadh and Hyderabad? Being an inland kingdoms there was hardly any option given to them. And the main thing is there were never any accesion papers signed by them joing Pakistan. So where is the issue. If Pakistan had taken Kashmir before they joined India, there would be no issue.
[/QUOTE]

Ok lets not get emotional and be rational.

I always had this question at the back of my mind that If there is no serious trouble in Kashmir, why are 600,000 Indian army sitting in Kashmir for last 15 years? Now you may argue that it is there to teach lessons to a small fraction of Pakistan-backed terrorists but deep somewhere inside, you also know that the problem in Kashmir is much more complex. No movement can sustain for so long until and unless there is a strong support from the masses. Forget the history. Forget who should own Kashmir. Forget the complex past. Lets talk about present and future. I guess the most important point that Indians need to grasp is that THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG IN KASHMIR. THAT THERE IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN KASHMIR. THAT IT IS NOT PAKISTAN WHO IS BEHIND EVERY TROUBLE. If Indians think that this is not the case then why this BBC correspondent had to write the following sentences in his report:

"The venue was a leaf-strewn cricket stadium, the site of a famed one-day international in the early 1980s, when many Kashmiris in the crowd decided to cheer on Clive Lloyd's West Indies rather than the Indian national team. By the end of the decade, an armed insurgency against rule from New Delhi had taken violent hold - Srinagar was full of Indian soldiers, and its cricketers never returned."

Indians should realize that keeping on repeating that Kashmir is a core part of India territory would not solve the PROBLEM. But first and foremost Indians should realize and admit that there is a serious problem in Kashmir that needs to be resolved for the better future of coming generations of this region. If nothing else, it is for own betterment of India. India is all set to join United nation security council but it has been told in a clear tone that it needs to solve the Kashmir problem first.

Trust me, we in Pakistan have realized that and we are willing to MOVE ON. The ongoing debate in Pakistani newspapers and journals regarding the possible solutions for Kashmir problem is far more mature and open minded than Indian newspapers. What do Indians think? Is it easy for Musharraf to abandon 50-year-old Pakistani claim on Kashmir and propose some new radical proposals? Of course NOT. Our whole nation has been told for 50 years by our policy makers that Kashmir belongs to us but still we are ready to MOVE ON. We have 50 years of ignorance, blood and darkness and if India keeps on persisting by saying KASHMIR CORE PART OF INDIA, we will have 50 more years of darkness and blood. Good Luck.

[QUOTE]
Kashmir was Pakistans..You may deny history, but our faith and shared bloodlines will forever unite us no matter if Kashmir is in Indias temporary control, Independent or part of Pakistan...Such is reality, now bring on the fantasy.
[/QUOTE]

bro. thanks but now we shud not think kashmir as pakistans, say kashmir belongs to muslims, they want us to be divided but we are MUSLIMS. We ruled India for more than 600 years, and we will again InshaAllah, i am not sayin drive hindus out of India but they will be treated well under Islamic State.

bro I got a movie about Indian Brutalities in kashmir Uncensored coz some of my brothers in kashmir did that, but i can put them on site, what is the best way.

“The Believers, Men and Women, are Supporters and Protectors of o_ne another. They command Al-Ma’ruf and forbid Al-Munkar, they perform Salat and give the Zakat, and Obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will have his Mercy o_n them. Surely Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.” [TMQ At-Taubah: 71]

[QUOTE]
I always had this question at the back of my mind that If there is no serious trouble in Kashmir, why are 600,000 Indian army sitting in Kashmir for last 15 years
[/QUOTE]

U have lessen 150000 soldiers accordin to Indian claims, bro. i have been to kashmir, there are more than 10 million soldiers, and India spends ONE BILLION US DOLLARS A DAY to hold a strong grip on kashmir, it is the Muslims who are suffering. Nearly a Million lives Martyred, what is the solution, Solution is ISLAMIC STATE which will not engage for years. There shud be NO COMPROMISE.

O you who believe! What is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the Cause of Allah (jihad) you cling heavily to the earth? Are you pleased with the life of this world rather than the hereafter? But little is the enjoyment of the life of this world as compared with the Hereafter” [TMQ At-Taubah: 38].