Hello,
I wanted to know what Indians think, the problem and the solution to the following issues between Pakistan and India are:
Although, pakistani prespective is appreciated. I myself being a pakistani, am aware of it and so I want to see the indian view on this.
Please try not to flame this thread!
Thanks
let isreal take over ur country 
i did not know Social development and Peace are problems between India and Pakistan !
WELCOME TO PAK.ORG
PAKIS ONLY PLEASE!!!
Zeeshan
do all Pakistanis have one voice and one view on these issues? or somehow if one is Pakistani he becomes aware of every single point of view that is around :)
I am sure that majority of Pakis and Indians think nothing of it, they have no time for these stunts.
Only I would like to remind that in eighties Pak media and political stunt was utilizing the word ‘Khalistan’, today it is replaced by the word ‘Kashmir’……Rest is ame.
Best rgds
Re: Indians only please!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zeeshan: *
Hello,
I wanted to know what Indians think, the problem and the solution to the following issues between Pakistan and India are:
This is how I feel on these topics.
Kashmir: people there have suffered enough. pakistan should stop coveting Kashmir and India should do whatever it takes to protect the people there.
Nuclear Weapons: needs a short term and long term approach. In the short term, both countries should put further development on freeze, even consider handing over control and management to a joint board of friendly nations (friendly to both countries). I am convinced that neither are mad enough as regular governments and peoples to do something stupid but we have to be cognizant of rabid extremists groups.
Social development:I don't know 1st hand about pakistan but everything I read tells me that within the islamic societies, pakistan has above average degree of modernity. But they need to concentrate on education and womens' equality issues a lot more. India has to focus on population dispersion through modernization of villages & infrastructure, and find ways to promote participation of intelligent younsters in political governance. I believe the caste issues have become less pronounced over the past two decades but we should make sure we keep an eye on it and ensure untouchability does not rear ugly head again. And finally while conflagarations like Godhra are rare exceptions, even such rare occurences do enormous damage to the psyche and image of our country and I just don't see a large enough effort by the govts to address the underlying problem. There are no silver bullets but how about some serious social development orgs such as a govt ministry or agency for religious community integration?
Peace: good idea. result of above.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anand: *
I am sure that majority of Pakis and Indians think nothing of it, they have no time for these stunts.
Only I would like to remind that in eighties Pak media and political stunt was utilizing the word ‘Khalistan’, today it is replaced by the word ‘Kashmir’……Rest is ame.
Best rgds
[/QUOTE]
I may be in the minority on this if you're right. I do think about these topics a lot. I do think that Zeeshan identified the right sequence for peace.
I however agree with your 2nd paragraph. pakistan has grabbed Kashmir as the issue after they lost khalistan as the issue
We should all do #2 to #1, and thus take care of #3 and #4 because #2 will do a good job all round by adjusting the world map to what it deserves to look like. Then the rest of the world can heave a sigh of relief.
Re: Re: Indians only please!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Jagjeevan: *
This is how I feel on these topics.
Kashmir: people there have suffered enough. pakistan should stop coveting Kashmir and India should do whatever it takes to protect the people there.
[/QUOTE]
What about all those kashmiris who blame your government and armed forces for mass murder, loot, rape that you have legitimzed over there? Dont tell me you havent met kashmiris who would eat vajpayee for dinner, and the mass anti-india processions in kashmir?
Spock, I will accept your allegation if you can pls answer following evergreen unanswered questions……….
Why there is no mass Muslim migration from Kashmir if Indian soldiers are killing them day and night? Re. Pak propaganda.
( For those who have no knowledge of history….lacs of Tibetans migrated over Chinese invasion, over one million Bengalis migrated during East Pak upheaval to India.)
Indian soldiers are accused of mass rapes. Re Pak propaganda.
These soldiers must know some very hi fi countermeasures, because we do not know any mass pregnancy cases.
(Information for totally illiterates, …..During East Pak upheaval thousands of Bengali Muslim women crossed over to India in pregnant condition.)
And off course for some very unknown reason since May 1999 till Jan 2003 the total figure killed in Kashmir as per PTV is stuck to 70000, no plus, no minus…..though every month this TV releases a report of new death toll from 200 to 500, but the total sum remains 70000.
Pak calls it a freedom movement, where ethnic Kashmiri Hindus were tortured in the very first period of terrorism, and these Hindus, off course, migrated.
i dont know kashmir is the core problem or symptom .
even india walks away from kashmir pakistani hostility will continue.
even all indians converted to islam still problem will exist.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anand: *
Spock, I will accept your allegation if you can pls answer following evergreen unanswered questions……….
[/quote]
First of all, where would they migrate too? They are not cowards, they love their state, and are fighting for its independence. You still didnt explain all those mass anti-india processions. Yesterday I met a Kashmiri who studied in bangalore, and he hates what the indian army is doing to its people.
[quote]
[/quote]
Dont mince words son. No need to change the topic to bangladesh like the sore loser that you are, not admitting to the loot/rape you carry out. Virtually all major human rights organizations have accused your armed dogs carry out murder/loot/rape in Kashmir.
[quote]
[/quote]
Another one of your lie. Maybe you should stick to doordashan, which proclaims the number of dead is 0, and yet a grave problem exists in Kashmir. hehe
[quote]
Silly questions dont need answers....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
i dont know kashmir is the core problem or symptom .
even india walks away from kashmir pakistani hostility will continue.
even all indians converted to islam still problem will exist.
[/QUOTE]
Trust me, it wont. Give us kashmir, in good terms, and this war ends.
Nothing new Spock, you have not answered any of my question……..
Sometimes I think that Tibatans, Bengalis and ethinc Hindu Kashmiris are cowards because they could not resist repression like Kashmiris ( as per Spock),…..as well as the world population control organization must consult Indian soldiers to know the measures they have found against pregnancy.
http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89862#post1286567
this is the kind of “don’t care what the facts are, I’ll keep on making the claims however unfounded they are” that has kept pakistan in dark ages and the conflict with India as consequence, alive. when are you going to get it rigt? you guys have to rebuild pakistan…forget Kashmir or anyother part of India. we all made our choices decades ago and we’re all wise to the islam card you guys try to play when the going gets real tough.
deal with the fundamentalists problem and economic problems of pakistan.
Here is my take on the matter:
Pakistan should stop support to Kashmir for at least one decade ... get economically strong, and improve military more...
Then, an ultimatum should be given to India, which should dictate that ...
A) International peace keepers be installed in all of Kashmir
B) Under supervision of these UN soldiers, a plebiscite should be held
C) The result should be binding on Pakistan and India, irrespective or who seems to be winning or losing
If not accepted we should go to war, but with the announcement that Nuclear weapons will not be used by Pakistan … first. We will not need Nukes since by then we should be able to defeat India and take territory rather than just be defensive as is the case now.
If plebiscite is allowed then, following this ... whatever is decided, it must be implemented within the course of one year
After which, full diplomatic contacts should be established ... and work towards normalization of relation should start.
If however, this does not happen:
Dear Zeesha, you are a daydreamer and have read only one side of history.
Pls find out what happened in 1947-48 in Kashmir.
Pls find out who opposed the Pak supported Pathani attack in Kashmir, and do not get disturbed if you find Kashmiri folklores narrating how little Kashmiri children and simple people made fool of those Pak supported battalions?
Why plebiscite could not take place, hence both India and Pakistan were signatory?
Pls read the UN resolution!
Day dreaming is bad for health, yesterday you were dreaming of Khalistan, today you are dreaming of Kashmir, tomorrow you will dream of Zhhumri Tallaya!
Best rgds
Pakistan makes kashmir as much an issue as India makes Pakistan an issue.
comments like, we will wipe Pakistan of the face of the planet and other lame ass quotes like that from Indian leaders just show that they need a "foe" to keep the awaam looking away from internal issues of the country.
Pakistan uses teh same thing with Kashmir. heck look at this pot, as long as educated people of our countries fight like kuttay billian, you think the unparrh Jahil awam will look beoynd the rhetoric and desire for peace? and as long as there is a "foe" thats where they can direct awams attention on that, for the sake of their own power.
You guys can continue your pissing contest on who's right and who's wrong. I guess the government propoganda and brainwashing has gotten to you too :)
we use events from past to justify our future? how lame is that. the real courage in fixing the mistrust and working for a better tomorrow. Otherwise it just seems like the lame tribal warfare which goes on for 15 generations because dude1 from tribe A stole the mukh of dude2 of tribeB.
I think the nations and the countries, need to grow up. and it starts with their people.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anand: *
Nothing new Spock, you have not answered any of my question……..
Sometimes I think that Tibatans, Bengalis and ethinc Hindu Kashmiris are cowards because they could not resist repression like Kashmiris ( as per Spock),…..as well as the world population control organization must consult Indian soldiers to know the measures they have found against pregnancy.
[/QUOTE]
Can you answer why large anti-indian processions take place in Kashmir then? Why do kashmiris use those offensive words to describe the indian forces there?