indian Train incident NOT by Muslim MOBS!

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Please read this news below. http://www.dawn.com/2002/03/07/top15.htm
I would like to mention that Dawn.com is more reliable than CNN and Fox News. Maybe you think I am a Pakistani and am taking their side but Christain friends working with me use this website more often than Cnn!
And about burning the train, given the incident, with an empty stomach and someone steals my money and bread, I would have lit the train cabins too! This rage is COMPLETELY natural! Please read the story.

Dont tell your God how big your problem is.. Tell your problem how big your God is!
Jazak allah khair

2

you should post this in world affairs.

3

What i find strange is the way people interpret acts commited by Muslims. If a muslim does something like this he is considered a radical, fundametalist, or a host of other terms people have come to associte with Islam. But people are willing to overlook other groups and label them as simply really pissed of people. Take for a example my Hindu friend. According to him, Palestinians have a right to be angry but not to fight back, because if the fight back they are radical terrorists. The Hindus however had the right to knock down the temple because they were the agrieved party. He fails to see the parallel between the two. As far as he is concerned, taking matters into your own hands is wrong in the case of the Muslims no matter where they r, but Hindus were justifed in doing radical things because they feel they are justified...

4

i think there is much more to this tragic event than what it appears.
some of the communal riots are engineered
by opposition to capture power or embarass
the party in power.it takes only roumer
or some acts that inflame the situation.
as long as ignorent people are there to be exploited. i really dont understand when people can withstand corruption and incompetance but when it comes to religen
people are ready to do anything.

5

I will include a small lesson which I learn when I was in Primary School. Every other guy would bully with me, steal my lunch, snatch my school badge, take my pencils away and I would cry but I wouldnt fight because according to my parents, fighting was BAD. Then my mom told me something, if you want people to treat you differently, act differently. I took control. In the 6th grade I thrashed 2 fellows making them pay with a pretty messed up chin and a broken tooth. O yeah! i did get into trouble, had to listen to my parents and put up with the tutors. But believe it or not, till the time I reached the 10th grade, we would help other students who were physically abused by the teachers and take care of the bullies.
From this, what I have learnt is, strike ONCE but HARD. Yes! you will be labelled bad, wrong, rotten seed but that shouldnt affect you. Remember there is no one out there who will help you because you dont interest them!

Change in attitude could bright destruction but peace will prevail.

Dont tell your God how big your problem is.. Tell your problem how big your God is!
Jazak allah khair

[This message has been edited by unholysaint (edited March 09, 2002).]

6

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
i think there is much more to this tragic event than what it appears.
some of the communal riots are engineered
by opposition to capture power or embarass
the party in power.it takes only roumer
or some acts that inflame the situation.
as long as ignorent people are there to be exploited. i really dont understand when people can withstand corruption and incompetance but when it comes to religen
people are ready to do anything.
[/quote]

My friend, you mentioned IGNORENT ppl here. I think you and I, all of us are ignorant. You and I will read what we want to read. If we know the whole truth, we can make a SAFE judgement.
Putting all the facts together, I have no problem saying that the killing of Muslims was fabricated by the News as 'Roits' where as it was all the evil work of Mr. L K Advani and his associates. Their motives could have been, "Kill the muslims and Hindus will back us". Truly, it wouldnt take a stupid to add 1+1 and say answer cannot be 3!
And let me share something esle with you. You will not find this stuff anywhere on the news. There was the ISI backing in the Sep 11 attack. Funds were transfered to Ata's account by the order of the Cheif of the ISI. I ask you, did you read about this news? NO! why? Because they want you to think the way they want you to think! Pakistan was INACTIVELY involved in this attack. And I tell you, there is nothing wrong in the attack on Pentagon. ABout the WTC, I would reserve my comments because they could have avoided the loss of 3000 lives. But I would really have to listen the views of Osama to understand his point of view.
I was shocked that the Muslims world doesnt believe that those Martyrs who gave their lives in these attacks were arabs! Talk about Ignorants! Muslims really have to do alot to come out off this mess!!!!

Dont tell your God how big your problem is.. Tell your problem how big your God is!
Jazak allah khair

7

Your an inspriraion to us all…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

8

Wrap it up by saying none died in the train fire. That seems to be the only propoganda left unsaid. Right from the hindu religious leaders, to the media to the common man strongly felt that the slaughter of muslims in Ahmedabad was horrendous. Any improvement comes from such accpetance. Even before any probe has begun, why do you just jump to conclusions & absolve yourself of all blame. It helps none.

9

i ask pakistanis why those shias were killed
while they are praying in mosque ?
there was no provocation. also you hear
shia doctors are killed for no reason.
you dont see this kind of violence in other muslim countries.

[This message has been edited by rvikz (edited March 10, 2002).]

10

[quote]
Originally posted by sundaram:
Wrap it up by saying none died in the train fire. That seems to be the only propoganda left unsaid. Right from the hindu religious leaders, to the media to the common man strongly felt that the slaughter of muslims in Ahmedabad was horrendous. Any improvement comes from such accpetance. Even before any probe has begun, why do you just jump to conclusions & absolve yourself of all blame. It helps none.
[/quote]

If you read my posting above, you will notice I have started the matter blaming myself and others for what is happening. If would be of everyone's best interest to take correct their own matters than trying to act like USA!
And about the Dawn.com news article. My friend let me remind you, even my christian american friends use Dawn more than CNN. I have seen my grandfather reading Dawn, my father reading dawn and now that we have moved to USA, I read it thru their website daily. Also if you noticed that there are stories from HINDUS who said they are aware of these kind of hindu mobs and it is a common practice.

Dont tell your God how big your problem is.. Tell your problem how big your God is!
Jazak allah khair

11

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
i ask pakistanis why those shias were killed
while they are praying in mosque ?
there was no provocation. also you hear
shia doctors are killed for no reason.
you dont see this kind of violence in other muslim countries.
(edited March 10, 2002).]
[/quote]

My friend, I believe this incident is similar to the Gujrat issue. Believe me, NO 'Muslim' would slay another Muslim while theu Bow their heads to Allah. This is 100% pure politics. And I am not that good in analysing and predicting political moves!
And the killing of Doctors, friends there is NO justification for that.

12

I quote Salman Khurshid, a congress leader reply in a recent discussion on TV; that after babri demolition, Bombay riots or now after this Godhra incident, may what come we hindus and muslims have to live together and we cannot run away from this reality.

13

[quote]
Originally posted by anand:
I quote Salman Khurshid, a congress leader reply in a recent discussion on TV; that after babri demolition, Bombay riots or now after this Godhra incident, may what come we hindus and muslims have to live together and we cannot run away from this reality.
[/quote]

i think its for the majority commiunity to think about it as far as muslim are concerned if pushed to wall they can create havoc

14

The cat is out of the bag!
http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/110302/dlnat50.asp

PTI
Gandhinagar, March 11

Provocative appeals made over loud speaker from a local place of worship surcharged the atmosphere to a great extent when the Sabarmati Express was attacked at Godhra Railway station on February 27, according to the Railway Police Force (RPF).
The FIR filed by RPF on February 27 night also said that “miscreants from minority community had planned to attack more coaches and the passengers had closed all windows and doors becoming captive targets”", according to informed sources.

The Faizabad-Amedabad express train, which was running three hours late, "was stopped “twice” as soon as it moved after its five minutes’ scheduled halt".

The train was stopped for the second time by removing the vaccuum pump and the assistant driver had then responded to the chain pulling and halted the train.

Three RPF personnel on duty – Karan Singh, Sri Mohan Yadav and Ambaresh Kumar**" “fired four rounds” from .303 rifles and Ambaresh also alerted other colleagues and the Inspector-in-Charge JK George**".

Inspector George and ASI Nawab Singh had rushed to the spot while “provocative calls” were being made from a local place of worship on a loud speaker, the FIR says.

The source said RPF personnel then shot 19 rounds, including with 9 mm carbines.

Interestingly, RPF personnel were already on an extended 12-hour duty daily from February 22 as a precautionary measure ever since the passengers, from the majority community started moving for Ayodhya.

The FIR has charged over 1000 people with conspiracy and murder under various sections including 302.

About 40 people, including the local Congress corporator, has since then been taken into custody.

The source also states two persons – Irfaan and Tayab Hussain Ali – “both residents of Signal Phalia colony,” – fell to RPF firing.

RPF officials then sought reinforcement and about 40 personnel and four doctors had rushed from Baroda, it said.

Meanwhile, local sociologists in Ahmedabad say that Godhra township is pre-dominant by Ghanchi minority community "with very poor education percentage.

**The chief occupation of a “large number of youth” is to snatch chains and lift bags of the railway passengers. **

“This community is basicaly a group of shepherds converted to Islam in the 15th century during the reign of Sultan Mohammad Begda, a descendant of Sultan Ahmed Shah, after whom Ahmedabad is named,” said a historian.

The Ghanchi minority people had “scant exposure” with the world beyond them with majority of them still “not able to speak Urdu or Hindi”.

“Pidgin Gujarati is their lingua franca,” an Ahmedabad-based historian said.

The community, otherwise, is also found scattered in Bharuch area and in the outskirts of Ahmedabad, sociologists say.

15

Well, if the facts state that the Karsevacs picked a fight with the Muslims, then what are you complaining about? Just admit, that perhaps the Karsevaks weren't as innocent as they would like people to believe. That doesn't justofy anything, but still, this must have been bubbling up for a while and finally it exploded. Who do you want to blame for having let it get this far?
And speaking of jumping to conclusions,
Have the found an ISI link yet?

16

Funny with that ISI thingy!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Well I am not a good devil’s advocate. And if someone has a problem accepting the truth then its none of my problem and non of my business! I dont ask anyone to believe what they believe…

Dont tell your God how big your problem is.. Tell your problem how big your God is!
Jazak allah khair

17

Ibrahim says : Greetings of Peace to one and all ,

Amazing! Hindu spin doctoring at its best? Or is it, the beginning to their cover up of what is clearly materializing?

The core of this behavior lies in Hinduism and its teachings. Hinduism is an evil religion that enforces submission by force and has specific rules as to who can be punished and who should be allowed to do what they please.

** “A Brahmin is a great deity whether or not he is learned,** just as fire is a great deity whether or not it is brought to the altar. The purifying fire with its brilliant energy is not defiled even in cremation grounds, and when oblations of butter are placed in it at sacrifices it grows even greater. Thus Brahmins should be revered in every way, ** even if they engage in all kinds of undesirable actions, for this is the supreme deity** . If the Ksatriyas become overbearing towards the Brahmins in any way, ** the Brahmins themselves should subdue them,** for the Ksatriyas were born from the Brahmins.” – Manusmrti 9:317-320.

Thus what we are witnessing is based on what is being taught in Hinduism in India, but clearly disguised and disputed by hindu spin doctors across the board.

Now coming back to the contents of this thread………..

After 14 days the hindus have found the FIR that was lodged on the 27th night, where two people got shot by railway security, the town full of minority train robbers and loud speakers calling for insurrection against a train loaded with hindutva scoundrels.

The origin of this organised provokcation is based on the myth of ram, this current Indian government used as a plateform to come to power and hold on to power in India

This case stinks of hindu racism ( Brahmanism) and is similar to the murdering of 35 Sikhs to impress President Clinton on his visit to India recently, to solve that problem, another five Muslims were killed to hide the facts that it was engineered by the hindutva government in India. This Hindu scoundrels who control this government and its police and army to this day have faked the evidence and withheld and whitewashed the truth.

Latest evidence for this at http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1862000/1862414.stm

** Thus the truth will NEVER come out from these filthy government or by its Hindu majority, in their media .**

The facts of the current slaughter by the hindus are :

  1. The train was rerouted by the Indian authorities for this very purpose and everyone on board would have been a part of this hindutva scam to built a temple on the property where they had earlier demolished a mosque by sear force.

  2. The hindutva scoundrels on board the train had left a trail of unsettled bills and damage along the journey, for which FIR has not been recorded or withheld from public eye.

  3. They abducted a 16 year old Muslim girl and only God knows what they did with her on the carriage.

  4. the death toll on board the train has been manipulated.

  5. From the beginning the blame has been placed on Muslim mob

Latest Field reports from [email protected]

** Affected areas: **

Panchmahal Dist. Sabarkantha Dist. Banaskantha, Mehsana, Kheda, Narmada, Ahmedabad, Baroda, Surat,

Villages : Sagana, Berol, Kalol, Halol, Dabhoi, pandolwala, Gotri & Limkheda

** Death :**

More then 5000

** Destruction of Mosques : **

12 in Baroda (proper), 10 in Ahmedabad (proper), All Masjids of affected villages
Several Masjids converted into Mandir (Hulladi Hanuman Mandir)

** Completely burned areas of Ahmedabad: **

Ansar nagar, Chamanpura, Nutan Mill, Gulmarg Soc., Maryambibi’s chawl, Barasancha’s chawl, Darji’s chawl, Anupam Cinema’s area, Ient wada, Pannalal’s chawl, Niranjan’s chawl, Jhalampura’s chawl, Three societies of Vatwa, Three others societies of Narol,
Guptangar(Juhapura), Naroda Patiya, Mai Fatehshah(shahpur), Premdarwaja.

** Homeless and Refugees due to hindu aggression **

40 to 50 thousand peoples are homeless, they are in different 25 relief camps.

** Barbaric cases : **

72 people burned with their homes in Gulmarg society.

29 people killed in Mehsana village.

46 people killed and burned them in the truck on Lunawada highway.

18 people burned in the ‘Best bakery’ in Baroda.

350 dead bodies of Muslims were thrown in a well near Naroda Patiya.

Most young girls/women molested/raped before burning.

** Property loss : **

Almost all hotels were destroyed in city and highway. (approx 200 hotels)
Two big cloth markets -Nawa Bazar & Mangal Bazar (approx. 163 shops completely destroyed.)

Property of all low-population villages of Muslims were destroyed.

** Weapons used & Other Facilities. **

They exploded houses and Mosques by the LPG Gas cylinders and Oxygen Gas cylinders.

They attacked ** with the support of Police ** and burned all properties by Petrol.

They were having always a truck of Petrol and the trucks of Gas cylinders with them.

** They were provided foods, waters, medical aid on the spot.**

Swords, Rifles, Petrol bombs, Acid bombs.

** They were given 500 Rs. per day, food, wines. if they were killed then two lacks Rs. given to their families, if they are arrested all legal expensive given by Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP).**

Latest whitewashed figures and on going slaughter of Muslims http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20020311_751.html

Some related coverage that are appearing in bits and pieces

Hindu Police Took Part in Slaughter of Muslims http://observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,660969,00.html

Hindu Police Helped Hindu Terrorists To Burn Muslims Alive http://groups.yahoo.com/group/InfoTimes/message/1284

Hindu activists instigated riots: WP http://www.dawn.com/2002/03/07/top15.htm

Journey to a temple of hate http://www.tehelka.com/channels/commentary/2002/mar/7/com030702guj.htm

Slaughter in the Name of God http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58173-2002Mar7.html

Muslim equals terrorist, Hindu nationalists tell each other; we have 140
million terrorists in our midst’ http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=270940

on the town which is at the heart of India’s sectarian violence http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,659926,00.html

India’s Past Becomes a Weapon http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/06/opinion/06THAR.html

URGENT ALERT: Unwillingness and Failure of Indian Government to Control
Gujarat Violence and Stop Massacres www.ihrc.org

In India, a Child’s Life Is Cheap Indeed http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/07/international/asia/07INDI.html

Regards
Ibrahim

3: 104 Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong; they are the ones to attain felicity.

105 Be not like those who are divided amongst themselves and fall into disputations after receiving clear signs; for them is a dreadful penalty.

[This message has been edited by Ibrahim (edited March 11, 2002).]

18

My Lord! It would take me weeks to verify all the info you have given me. But the nature of the info is more than I can handle!

But Ibrahim, I want you to take it seriously. Do NOT blame a religion for this. Though I dont know alot about hinduism. If you are just labeling them, then stop it! Dont label a religion because some of its followers were politically motivated! And if you have "Quotes" from their Holy scriptures, suggesting teachings of brutality, then share it . Otherwise, simply say nothing!

Sorry if i was rude, my rule is "not guilty till proven" and hey! I leave it to the Ultimate Judge!

Dont tell your God how big your problem is.. Tell your problem how big your God is!
Jazak allah khair

19

Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

Dear unholysaint,

Hmmm….Apparently you missed my earlier quote on what Brahmins ( the main Hindu caste that controls India today) may do in their domain , so let me re-quote;

"A Brahmin is a great deity whether or not he is learned, just as fire is a great deity whether or not it is brought to the altar. The purifying fire with its brilliant energy is not defiled even in cremation grounds, and when oblations of butter are placed in it at sacrifices it grows even greater. Thus Brahmins should be revered in every way, even if they engage in all kinds of undesirable actions, for this is the supreme deity. If the Ksatriyas become overbearing towards the Brahmins in any way, the ** Brahmins themselves should subdue them, ** for the Ksatriyas were born from the Brahmins." – Manusmrti 9:317-320.

Ibrahim says: Maybe this was too little. So let me give you more….

** “With whatever limb an inferior insults or hurts his superior in caste, of that limb the king shall cause him to be deprived.** If he places himself on the same seat with his superior, he shall be banished with a mark on his buttocks. If he spits on him, he shall lose both lips;** If he breaks wind (fart) against him, his hindparts; ** If he uses abusive language, his tongue. If a (lowborn) man through pride gives instruction (to a member of the highest caste) concerning his duty, let the king order hot oil to be dropped into his mouth. If a (low-born man) mentions the name or caste of a superior revilingly, an iron pin, ten inches long, shall be thrust into his mouth (red hot).” – Visnusmrti 5:19-25.

“These (castes) should live near mounds, trees, and cremation-grounds, in mountains and in groves, recognizable and making a living by their own innate activities. But the dwellings of ‘Fierce’ Untouchables (candala) and ‘Dog-cookers’ (svapaca) should be outside the village; ** they must use discarded bowls, and dogs and donkeys should be their wealth. Their clothing should be the clothes of the dead, and their food should be in broken dishes; their ornaments should be made of black iron, and they should wander constantly ** . A man who carries out his duties should not seek contact with them; they should do business with one another and marry with those who are like them. Their food, dependent upon others, should be given to them in a broken dish, and they should not walk about in villages and cities at night.” – Manusmrti 10:50-54.

** “Now the gods do not commune with everyone, but only with a Brahmin, or a Rajanya (Ksatriya), or a Vaisya; ** for these are able to sacrifice. Should there be occasion for him to converse with a Sudra, let him say to one of those, ‘Tell this one so and so! Tell this one so and so!’ This is the rule of conduct for the consecrated in such a case.” – Satapatha Brahmana 3:1:1:10.

Ibrahim says: unholysaint, IF those are still insufficient feel free to ask

Regards
Ibrahim

** every closed eye is not sleeping and every open eyes is not seeing **

20

We do not have any right to hate Muslims, but we do have a right to hate talibanised Muslims. People like Kabir, an Indian Muslim, Imam bukhari are talibanised Muslims. Bal Thhakre also falls in that category. They can do us a favor, that is just leave India at peace, may go to some Arab country or Pakistan may be.