[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *
Sure do that. Don't play. I won't talk about so called terrorism in India. Right now no team wants to visit Pak, but none have a problem visiting India. Why?
As far as Fg's comments go, if Pakistan had slapped it's jehadi elemants around a long time back this wouldn't have happened.
[/QUOTE]
I'll answer you in detail when I have some time. Right now, I'm a bit busy.
If the Indian team does not want to play in Pakistan, we should offer no alternatives. Either they play in Pakistan or the tour should be off. PCB should take a stand.
Karina jee you might not have noticed but South Africa, BD and NZ recently visited Pakistan and played the series here. Yes they had reservations before coming but after teh tour they were more than satisifed with the tour and the arrangements. Your team should take note of that.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ehsan: *
If the Indian team does not want to play in Pakistan, we should offer no alternatives. Either they play in Pakistan or the tour should be off. PCB should take a stand.
Karina jee you might not have noticed but South Africa, BD and NZ recently visited Pakistan and played the series here. Yes they had reservations before coming but after teh tour they were more than satisifed with the tour and the arrangements. Your team should take note of that.
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YES I agree.But you need to understand that Neither of SA,BD,NZ were on hitlist of those Jihadi Orgnaiations.Where as Sachin and Saurav were on their hitlist. So that complicates the thing. This could be best opportunity for them to do it.
I think its the long investment of Pakistani governments in Terrorist which is paying them off now.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sambrialian: *
there was an open threat to our team when we toured in 99. In fact, a pitch was dug, wasn't it? now, name the group that has issued an open threat to your team.
and don't give me none of that terrorism crap 'cause your side of the border has just as many nuts as our side.
As far as your last comment is concerned, I'm going to be sending out as many protesting emails to the PCB as I can to oppose a Pak tour anywhere outside of Pakistan though fg's idea is slightly more acceptable.
[/QUOTE]
Pitch was dug by Shiv sena and everyone knows that they cant do anything outside bombay.Thats the reason that tour didnt have any match in Bombay. So there was no real danger outside Bombay.
Where as we all know where all those Jehadi blow the bomb..After all president survived two attacks..
By the way..I liked that comment that PCB should show some self respect and dont play in some neutral venue.Lets see if PCB has the balls.
Karina, good point...
but what amazes me is what took the Indian(BJP) Govt so long to figure this out.
I think the PCB (and by extension , the Pak Govt) has the right to be pissed off if the Indian Govt/BCCI starts dilly-dallying on the tour now when the start is so close. The Indians, I must say, have been taking the PCB for granted.... as if they are doing a favor to Pak by agreeing to the tour...they may soon find themselves at the receiving end should they continue to behave in this condescending way...
And I also find this thing about an Indian delegation visting Pak to review security arrangements ridiculous. What are they looking at...They will probably spend some time eating halwa-poori with their Pak counterparts and not commit anything in particular on the security front... they would rather play safe and save their butts should anything go wrong later...(the usual Deshi tendency in situations like this).
While I would like the tour to be called off (or played at some other venue), I strongly feel that the handling of this issue by the Indian Govt/BCCI has been very amateurish and I will understand if Pak responds in kind.....
This thing about jehadis and others was there before as well. Nothing new has happened in the last few days for the Indian govt to suddenly change their mind. it seems so fickle and pathetic on their part. For over two months now they have been planning this tour, now at the last minute suddenly security has become an issue. As some1 says he raised this issue sometime ago. If he was aware and so were most of us was the Indian govet and BCCI sleeping? Or has the sudden slump in form in Aus has something to do with it? The Jehadi excuse no longer cuts ice. Yes the threat is there I dont deny it, but my point is the threat was always there. So why did your government agree a few weeks ago and now the change of heart?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ehsan: *
This thing about jehadis and others was there before as well. Nothing new has happened in the last few days for the Indian govt to suddenly change their mind. it seems so fickle and pathetic on their part. For voer tow months now they have been palnning this tour, now on the last minute suddenly security has become an issue. As some1 says he raised this issue sometime ago. If he was aware and so were most of us was the Indian govet and BCCI sleeping? Or has the sudden slump in form in Aus has something to do with it? The Jehadi excuse no longer cuts ice. Yes the threat is there I dont deny it, but my point is the threat was always there. So why did your government agree a few weeks ago and now the change of heart?
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YES I agree..Indian Govt and BCCI managed it badly if they have said this thing earlier then situation wouldnot have come to this level.
in lankan pitches? no way!
our young guns havent played much there!
either play in Pakistan or cancel it!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *
Cricket will be the loser. I wont talk about so called terrorism in India. Right now no team wants to visit Pak, but none have a problem visiting India. Why?
[/QUOTE]
I could not care less about cricket being a winner or a loser. Paramount to me is Pakistan and Pakistan's image and these tactics by the Indian board are hurting it. And btw, doesn't cricket lose out when the Indian board says yes one day and then backs out the next?
How can you say no team wants to visit Pakistan? South Africa, BD and NZ just visited Pak. Now if you point to NZ players opting out, English players opted out of the Indian tour a while back. What about that. Does that mean no team wants to visit India either?
These are all circular arguments and have been beaten to death here. I do not like waste my time so I'm going to stop here. What I do unfortunate however is that a person who's educated such as yourself instead of building bridges is more intent on "defending the team" and upholding baseless and contradictory policies.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sambrialian: *
How can you say no team wants to visit Pakistan? South Africa, BD and NZ just visited Pak. Now if you point to NZ players opting out, English players opted out of the Indian tour a while back. What about that. Does that mean no team wants to visit India either?
[/QUOTE]
Weak Argument Samby... u can surely do better than that.
We all know what it took to get NZ and the South Africans to play in Pak. As for BD, they dont count..
I didn't know English players refused to play in India due to security reasons.. when did that happen ?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Some1: *
Weak Argument Samby... u can surely do better than that.
We all know what it took to get NZ and the South Africans to play in Pak. As for BD, they dont count..
I didn't know English players refused to play in India due to security reasons.. when did that happen ?
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Fine! so it took a lot of assurances and promises of state-level security to bring these teams to Pakistam. On the flip side, I can argue that these fears were totally unfounded as was proven by very peaceful and uneventful tours. And if we use the very hollow "cricket will be the loser" argument, the Pak-SA series was a very very good series cricketwise. It might not have beaten the Aus-Ind series in terms of ratings but it featured some great cricket and definitely was one of the better battles out there.
Secondly, why do you think the touring English team was declared as one of the weakest to tour India? I believe it was Gavaskar who said that. I can dig up the info if you so desire though I'm sure any guppy can back up what I'm saying. I don't remember the names of the players who backed out 'cause I don't follow the English team at all.
Pakistan safe for India’s blind and Olympians, but not cricket stars](http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040213/323/elyn6.html)
NEW DELHI (AFP) - Top Indian athletes and a team of blind cricketers will visit Pakistan as scheduled, officials said, even as the national cricket team’s Test tour next month was on the verge of being postponed.
The Indian Olympic Association (IOA) confirmed it will send a 400-stong contingent for the South Asian Federation Games in Pakistan’s capital Islamabad from March 29 to April 7.
A team of blind cricketers will leave for Lahore by road next Wednesday to play five matches against their Pakistani counterparts who won the World Cup for the blind in India last December.
But there are growing doubts about India’s first Test tour of Pakistan in almost 15 years going ahead as scheduled because the Indian government wants it postponed until after general elections in April-May.
India were due to play three Tests and five one-day internationals on their first full tour of Pakistan since 1989.
The tour, slated for March-April, was announced last October soon after the Indian government lifted a three-year ban on bilateral cricket ties with Pakistan - but before the general elections had been declared.
The Economic Times reported in a front page story on Friday that it had been told by deputy prime minister and home minister Lal Krishna Advani that his ministry was against the tour for security reasons.
And Swami Chinmayanand, Advani’s junior colleague at the home ministry, went on television saying the recent nuclear proliferation scandal involving Pakistani scientists had forced the government to rethink the security of the national cricket team.
“Earlier when the tour was decided on, there was no evidence of transfer of nuclear technology. But recent happenings in Pakistan have made us rethink on the security of our players,” Chinmayanand told the Hindi-language Aaj Tak channel.
IOA secretary-general Randhir Singh said India would definitely take part in the South Asian Federation (SAF) Games.
“We at the IOA have not heard anything to the contrary,” Singh, a member of the International Olympic Committee, told AFP on Friday.
“We visited Islamabad in January to oversee the arrangements for the Games and I am confident there will be no security problems.”
Besides India, athletes from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, the Maldives, Nepal, Bhutan and Afghanistan will take part in the nine-day event which includes competitions in 15 disciplines.
Jagmohan Dalmiya, president of the Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI), said a final decision on the Test tour will be taken after a three-member delegation returns from Pakistan next Monday.
The BCCI delegation, which includes a security expert from the home ministry, is currently visiting various venues in Pakistan to study the security and players’ arrangements for the tour.
Media reports Friday said the government has asked the BCCI to consider fresh dates for the tour after the general elections end in May, but the prevailing hot weather then will not be conducive for cricket.
Former Test cricketers, while acknowledging that government advice on security matters had to be followed, said they would be disappointed if the tour was cancelled.
“Politicians should stick to their own business and let cricket officials do their job,” said former national coach Anshuman Gaekwad.
“The whole situation is ridiculous. The government should have realised all this before the BCCI sent a delegation to Pakistan.”
Former Test batsman Abbas Ali Baig added sarcastically: “It might not be a bad idea to hold the series during the monsoons because the matches won’t happen and there won’t be any results. So everyone will be happy.”
No petty politics please](http://uk.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2004/FEB/067151_IND_13FEB2004.html)
From genuine concerns about safety of the players, the issue of India’s tour to Pakistan is now degenerating into the utterly ridiculous. Every morning, we are assailed by news reports quoting phantom sources in the Indian Home Ministry pouring confusion over the status of the tour. Diplomacy, which cleared the ground for a potentially historic tour, is once again in danger of being overwhelmed by narrow political interests, and the atmosphere is turning unhealthy.
**At this point, having coming so far, there can no other reason for cancellation, postponement and shifting of venues other than security, and yet theories are being advanced about how it might not be a good time for cricket because, astoundingly, any untoward incidents might adversely impact the electoral prospects of the ruling government. **
Now, if the government fears for the safety of the players, the team should not go, not now, and not after three months, because it is hard to imagine how the conditions, if they are unsafe now, would improve in three months. But if a postponement is being sought because the ruling party doesn’t want take a chance with its own fortunes at the polls – it is even being suggested a poor performance by the Indian team in Pakistan would rob the nation of a feel-good factor – it amounts to an abuse of power. The Pakistan Cricket Board has been led to believe in recent weeks that the tour is nothing but a certainty. To pull the plug on them without there being a valid enough reason would be grossly unfair.
On the face of it, because we do not yet know if the government has been gathering intelligence quietly, the security assessment was left for too late, and there is a tokenism about the three-member delegation sent to assess the security situation in Pakistan. It contains two senior board officials with proven administrative capabilities, but you can’t help wondering if they are best suited for an assessment of threat perception.
**The Indian government is obliged make public its position on the tour quickly. If it is all right to tour in June, it is all right to tour now. It is impossible to separate sports from the national cause, but sports cannot be allowed to be hostage to the self-serving agenda of a political party. **
the indians r chickens, we toured hindustan during 1998-1999 season weren’t we @ danger!! was our players lives not at risk…, were halaat between the 2 nations any good back then compared to the halaat now between us!!!
when u promise to tour u tour u don’t back-out on brink of the commencement. why should we play on neutral venue, we stand to lose out on a lot of money, if bcci were in our postion i’m sure they would also do all in their power to secure this series, anyways india have been looking for baseless and weird excuses which have become corny now, to back out of crucial matches against us, is a common 1…
other cricket playing nations have toured pakistan as of late and its about time india kept their side of the bargain, or they can do wat they r best @, chickening out when the chips r down.. bla pathetic
*
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ehsan: *
This thing about jehadis and others was there before as well. Nothing new has happened in the last few days for the Indian govt to suddenly change their mind. it seems so fickle and pathetic on their part. For over two months now they have been planning this tour, now at the last minute suddenly security has become an issue. As some1 says he raised this issue sometime ago. If he was aware and so were most of us was the Indian govet and BCCI sleeping? Or has the sudden slump in form in Aus has something to do with it? The Jehadi excuse no longer cuts ice. Yes the threat is there I dont deny it, but my point is the threat was always there. So why did your government agree a few weeks ago and now the change of heart?
[/QUOTE]
Ehsan bhai, first of all every Indian wanted to see India play Pakistan, and sudden 'slump in form' is meaningless. It doesn't mean we stop playing cricket. Has India ever fussed like this before when visiting Pak?
But sachin and some top players can be very attractive targets for extremists who want to derail the peace process for eg. You don't know the extent of fanaticism in India where cricketers are concerned. West Bengal will burn everything in sight if Ganguly is hurt! So right now what is happening is that the players and their families are having qualms and the govt is scared of losing the elections.
Having said that I am disgustedbut not surprised at the turn of events. All along I kept having the feeling that this tour would be jeopardised. I could see the signs a month back and as usual the bcci stuck it's head in the sand. It deserves to get slapped with a huge fine by the pcb.
This is from the BBC...if Indian postpones, I feel we should we place a five year ban on any Indian athletic team coming to or playing Pakistan. Additionally, we should lodge a complaint with the ICC to punish India for one year. Finally, they should take this matter to court and sue India for the fees they would have gained from this tour. There is no doubt about it, the Indians are playing politics. Vajpayee himself was in Islamabad for a few days in January. For all you Indian apologists, you sicken me.
India 'to postpone tour'
The Indian security delegation were in Karachi on Thursday
The Pakistan-India Test series is set to be postponed because of security fears and a general election.
An Indian government junior minister said it has been forced to re-think the tour, which was set to go-ahead in March.
Swamy Chinmayanand told the BBC Hindi service that players' safety in Pakistan could not be guaranteed.
"We want relations with Pakistan to improve but cannot endanger players' lives," Mr Chinmayanand said.
"Our players' security is more important than cricket," he added.
Media reports also suggested the ruling BJP Party in India was concerned a defeat in the cricket could seriously affect its electoral prospects.
But no-one from the government would publicly admit to this, highlighting the security fears instead.
The series was set to be the first time India had visited Pakistan for a Test tour in 14 years.
I think everyone has been really looking forward to it and it will be such a shame if its cancelled or even postponed
From Shalini
Have your say on TMS
A security delegation from the Board of Control for Cricket in India is currently in Pakistan assessing the situation and was set to announce its findings on Monday.
But Mr Chinmayanand revealed the Indian government has sent its own intelligence staff to Pakistan, too.
He added: "The Indian government will take a final decision only after its intelligence team comes back from Pakistan and submits a report.
"The report by the government's security team will be final but the other report by the BCCI delegation will also be taken into account.
"Until the players' security is ascertained, the Home Ministry will not allow them to travel to Pakistan."
Feature: Too hard a test?
India captain Sourav Ganguly suggested players were concerned about their safety.
But BCCI President Jagmohan Dalmiya played down suggestions the tour could be in doubt earlier this week.
He said: "We have no comment to make so far as the tour is concerned, but BCCI's stand has been always to abide by the government decision."
The tour, which includes three Tests and five one-dayers, was scheduled to start with the first Test on 11 March.
Geo TV reports that the Indian govt. is now playing up the issue of Nuke proliferation by stating that the situation has changed after the unearthing of Dr. AQ Khan's activities and that it may well jeaperdise the tour.
(what in the hell???)
personally though, i feel this is all drama and because everyone is so anxious for the tour, the newspapers are having a field day. Just think, what is going to be the most attrative story for an avg. reader? India cancelling Pak. Tour. Both PCb Chairman and his indian counterpart have reassured that the tour will go ahead and that is why PCB is going ahead with the tour. So i personally feel the tour is still on and the drama is just to mint some money.
I doubt this tour will go ahead as scheduled or as people expect. BCCI will either delay the tour or cancell it. I hope I'm wrong but...
If they were going to cancell it why did they agree to tour Pak in the first place. I 'm sure there's an excuse by indianz.
Ps. Sambralian that england tour you were talking of is mentioned here.
To go or not to go
Sambit Bal
February 12, 2004
A couple of days into the Melbourne Test, when the Indian press corps were agitating over the existence of a letter purportedly written by the Indian team to the BCCI expressing apprehensions about the tour to Pakistan, I sought out a senior player for his views. The letter had been written and signed, he said, but not posted. He then confronted me with a question. "Tell me, would you tour Pakistan?" Without blinking, I said, "Of course".
It took me only a few moments to realise why it had been so easy for me be emphatic. A tour to Pakistan presented a unique opportunity and challenge to a journalist, which, it can be argued, is even more true for a cricketer. But it is infinitely easier to be brave when little is at risk. The threat perception for a famous cricketer performing on an open field in a packed stadium is understandably different from an anonymous journalist in the press box. The only time I have feared for my life was when I found myself alone with a ferocious looking dog on an empty street. The only list I have ever worried about getting my name on was a register of troublesome employees maintained by one of the companies I worked for earlier. I have never had a security guard posted outside my house. The tour should go on, not only for the sake of cricket, but also for a wider national cause. However, the legitimate player concerns must be addressed in a manner that is satisfactory to the players.
I spoke to two senior players last night and it is apt to say that they are confused. As cricketers, they want to make the trip, for they see the tour as a stepping stone for growth, both personally and as a team. Many in the current side haven't played a Test in Pakistan and there is recognition that it is a hole in their career. As a team, the Pakistan tour is an opportunity to draw closer to establishing themselves as the number two Test side in the world. But what they find hard to accept is that there has been, at least that's how it has appeared to them, more concern about signing sponsors and finalising television deals, than security. If it is not so, obviously, no one from the cricket board has yet, despite the apprehensions being aired over a month ago, thought it worthwhile to assure the players otherwise.
Two conflicting reports have emerged this morning, doing nothing but adding to the confusion. Incredulously, they both involve sections of the Indian home ministry. The three-member inspection team of the BCCI, which includes an inspector general of the home ministry, has expressed satisfaction over the security arrangements in the two venues they have visited so far, including the contentious Peshawar, while reports emanating from Delhi suggest that the home ministry is in favour of the tour being postponed. Unattributed stories are a classical device to test waters because the establishment can later conveniently deny them, but in this case, the home ministry has an obligation to make its official stand clear.
It can be argued that no place in the world is safe anymore and safety is only a matter degrees. Indians were perplexed when Nasser Hussain, then captain of England, voiced security concerns about touring India in 2001 because a war was on in Afghanistan. In 1996, India and Pakistan sent a joint team to Colombo as an expression of solidarity after Australia and West Indies pulled out of their World Cup matches citing security reasons. And now, Wasim Akram has exhorted Indian players to tour Pakistan in the same way his team did in 1999 in the face of threats from fundamentalists.
It is apparent, however, that Indian cricketers at the moment perceive the threat in Pakistan as being slightly different from that posed by Shiv Sainks, who, while being vandals and rioters, have had no history of organised terrorism. Of course, the cricket boards in both countries might have different views, which might be closer to reality. It falls on them to provide information and answers and then leave the decision to individual players. It's simpler for us, who have little at stake, to ask for courage. Safety is a matter of personal concern and players should be allowed to make the choice without the fear of recrimination.
The bcci folk have the collective brain of a beetle. The security issue, election issue, etc should have been tackled 2 months ago. working along with the pcb they should have formulated a back up plan in case of worst case scenario. for eg, shift the tour to India with ALL profits going to Pakistan. Any plan is better than no plan! Anyway, now that the pcb has threatened to sue the tour might still go ahead.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *
Ps.
*As a team, the Pakistan tour is an opportunity to draw closer to establishing themselves as the number two Test side in the world. *
[/QUOTE]
whooaaa? Are we forgetting RSA and Pakistan in over-excitement? Let's pull out the ICC Test ranking. Where does India stand?