Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

[Punjabee_in_USA]

Its not just the choice of words, it looks like the judge is afraid more people might exercise their religious rights. He didn't discard the case because he didn't believe in interference.

In this case, the private school's rules trumped religious rights. If this guy was stopped for sporting a beard at a public place his rights would have prevailed.

India is not an religious state and so the judiciary has to make sure that there is a balance between exercise of religious rights and adherance to laws.

This guy was probably out to get some free publicity and score a point, and the judge was quite correct in ruling against him.

[Bail_Out]

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

Punjabee - I am not sure if you appreciate the dangerous precedent this judge is setting, if these words are true. Who the heck is this judge to say burqa is something to be avoided? How is that different from saying no turban to a sikh or no signs on the forehead to Hindus or no cassocks to a catholic ?

I am very concerned about this.

I think he should have simply said that the school has the right to determine standards on attire and appearance.

I am not muslim and I don't think kids should be made to wear burqa or sport a beard but that is my opinion as an individual. I should not impose it on someone else! That is what India is all about.

[ehtasab]

In this case, the private school's rules trumped religious rights. If this guy was stopped for sporting a beard at a public place his rights would have prevailed.

That is okay for the "private school" to do that, as long as they were doing it for all religious symbols, but its bad for the judiciary to use words like "Talibanisation" and express fear that women could start wearing burqa. It shows his fear of people following religion or wearing religious symbols.

India is not an religious state and so the judiciary has to make sure that there is a balance between exercise of religious rights and adherance to laws.

If India were religious state then this question may not have arisen, the state is confused, atleast this is what the judge demonstrated.

This guy was probably out to get some free publicity and score a point, and the judge was quite correct in ruling against him.

I think it was judge who wanted publicity by using words like Talibanisation otherwise everyone knows growing beard centuries old "sunnah".

[Punjabee_in_USA]

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

Punjabee - I am not sure if you appreciate the dangerous precedent this judge is setting, if these words are true. Who the heck is this judge to say burqa is something to be avoided? How is that different from saying no turban to a sikh or no signs on the forehead to Hindus or no cassocks to a catholic ?

I am very concerned about this.

I think he should have simply said that the school has the right to determine standards on attire and appearance.

I am not muslim and I don't think kids should be made to wear burqa or sport a beard but that is my opinion as an individual. I should not impose it on someone else! That is what India is all about.

I understand you point. However, whatever the judge said was his personal view. The judgement was not made based on the judges whims. It was made in keeping with the law.

I am against public expression of one's religion. Religion is a personal thing and its expression should be kept personal. The world would be a much better place if all of us understood and adhered by this :)

[diwana]

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

^ Religion is not something bad thing to hide.

Everyone should be allowed to exercise a religious act specially wearing an attire or keeping beard if they want to.

SC judge giving personal opinion is what makes him incompetent.

[diwana]

Please read your post again and then read my response. The school did not formulate the rule just because this guy joined the school. The rule was in existence even before this guy decided to join the school. Was this chap negligent in understanding the rules.

There is a fine line between personal freedom and discipline. Somebody would want to come to the school naked. He might cite personal freedom. What would you say then. What is your fixation on Christanity here. It is just a coincidence that the school was run by Christians. It does not claim that the school is run on Christian principles. It is an ordinary school.

The guy did not grow beard just to go against school rule either. Chances are he had a beard even while he enrolled or attended the school.

So he broke out of decipiline by having a beard. Does this make sense at all?

You are fixated with the word fixation!;)

Can anyone tell why even have the rule of not having beard allowed in school? Absolutely no reason! he judge or government should not have allowed the school to have such a discriminatory rule and why am I even saying this, it has been proven that this judge is a mental case.

Read my above posts for explanation.

[diwana]

[quote="pallavpotter, post:2, topic:198209"]

He joined the school after knowing all of its rules.
if beard is not allowed, then its not allowed.
and for the records, not only Muslims, but Hindus and Sikhs keep beard too, like you mentioned. so its not only a Muslim thing, but for all.

if he had to keep his beard, he could have moved out to some other school, and to be very honest,no private school here allows a beard. so either he would have to go to some madrassa, or to the central schools.
again no point in starting a hoo-halla about the issue. so, in a way, he did start the problem.

and yes, about the judge's connecting beard with talibanisation, well, the deeds of a section of a community manages to degrade the general image of the whole community. which is sad, but true.

......................................quote]

And school enrolled him with his beard. Even if it did not, the school had no reason to make such a rule. None whatsoever. Hence it should be disputed.

Rules without reason can be challenged in proper way which he did.

Last part of your post is an apologetic way of saying something irrational, and senseless.

[diwana]

@simplyme

Yes, people are still justifying the reasons for the creation of Pakistan 60 years after its creation

Are you guys still insecure about the reasons for the creation of Pakistan. As I mentioned, Pakistan has already been created and is in existence for a good number of years. So dont try to justify the creation of Pakistan another 100 years down the line..

You said that before and it was answered.

Even countries existed for centuries keep repeating the reasons and justification for their creation so why being sensitive to Pakistan?

[pallavpotter]

[quote="pallavpotter, post:2, topic:198209"]

He joined the school after knowing all of its rules. if beard is not allowed, then its not allowed. and for the records, not only Muslims, but Hindus and Sikhs keep beard too, like you mentioned. so its not only a Muslim thing, but for all.

if he had to keep his beard, he could have moved out to some other school, and to be very honest,no private school here allows a beard. so either he would have to go to some madrassa, or to the central schools. again no point in starting a hoo-halla about the issue. so, in a way, he did start the problem.

and yes, about the judge's connecting beard with talibanisation, well, the deeds of a section of a community manages to degrade the general image of the whole community. which is sad, but true.

......................................quote]

And school enrolled him with his beard. Even if it did not, the school had no reason to make such a rule. None whatsoever. Hence it should be disputed.

Rules without reason can be challenged in proper way which he did.

Last part of your post is an apologetic way of saying something irrational, and senseless.

Now has it come down to the school not having any right to form such 'discriminating' rules? discriminating as in what form??

and with no reason?

every minority school has the right to form rules according to their wish, and the govt has no power to interfere in that.
that goes for the madrassas too.

and everything that doesnt goes on with your thinking is irrational, senseless and without reason.

[diwana]

Now has it come down to the school not having any right to form such 'discriminating' rules? discriminating as in what form??

and with no reason?

every minority school has the right to form rules according to their wish, and the govt has no power to interfere in that. that goes for the madrassas too.

and everything that doesnt goes on with your thinking is irrational, senseless and without reason.

No sir it has not come down to anything. All other issues have been discussed from personal freedom to.... law, and should a judge act on the basis of law or his own funny opinion.

If he was really a competent judge, all he had to do is to send memo to school ( as being a judge of SC) to ask why no beard was allowed in the school.
Having no credible answer and having no laws of land (which this judge represented) against it, he should have given verdict in favor of this man.

School rule:

When laws and rules, or even recommendations are made and adopted, some kind of reason is provided. Has anyone come up with any reason for this rule, even this school would not be able to.
No one has/had and no one will ever come up with a credible reason for this kind of rule.

I did not post many pictures of people with beard and they are certainly not taliban just because I thought one will get the idea without it anyway.

Off course this freak judge had never seen people with beard except talibans in his lifetime..........:D

[pallavpotter]

No sir it has not come down to anything. All other issues have been discussed from personal freedom to.... law, and should a judge act on the basis of law or his own funny opinion.

If he was really a competent judge, all he had to do is to send memo to school ( as being a judge of SC) to ask why no beard was allowed in the school. Having no credible answer and having no laws of land (which this judge represented) against it, he should have given verdict in favor of this man.

School rule:

When laws and rules, or even recommendations are made and adopted, some kind of reason is provided. Has anyone come up with any reason for this rule, even this school would not be able to. No one has/had and no one will ever come up with a credible reason for this kind of rule.

I did not post many pictures of people with beard and they are certainly not taliban just because I thought one will get the idea without it anyway.

Off course this freak judge had never seen people with beard except talibans in his lifetime..........:D

well, its quite obvious that when the 'man' challenged the school's authority, and dragged it to the court, sure the school too gave some reasons to defend it self. reasons as to why the no-beard rule exists.
its not like the 'man' suddenly bunked the school and went to a judge and the judge just turned him away.
when someone brings some organisation or institution to the court, a fixed protocol is followed, where the challenged is sent a memo or court order, and is asked to defend itself.

as to why the rule exists, well, most to all convent schools follow the British missionary way of schooling, wherein keeping a beard is not generally allowed.

and yes, when you get to see freaking Talibs daily on the stupid box, jumping up and down in Afghanistan and NWFP, gunning and bombing people around, forming quite crude, cruel and ancient laws, then most people do get a bit freaked out, like our freaking judge! :D

[lakkis25]

Jinnah vindicated once more - for the state to prevent someone from practicing his own belief in a way that does not impose on others is just wrong.

I was horrified to learn from Punjabee's opening post that Sikh children in India are not allowed their right to wear a kirpan to school. In the UK, they have this right.

It is indeed sad that the Sikh people have more freedom in the Uk than they have in India.

My School don't allow bindi, Its a Catholic Missionary School, 99% are Hindus, nobody complained, and who gets beard in school, i mean do peple get beard at the age 15

[aam_bandha]

School rule:

When laws and rules, or even recommendations are made and adopted, some kind of reason is provided. Has anyone come up with any reason for this rule, even this school would not be able to. No one has/had and no one will ever come up with a credible reason for this kind of rule.

School rules are normally made by schools keeping some basic things in mind. Perhaps if you were to look at this schools rule for not keeping beard, you will not find any such rule . What it would say is the there should be no "facial hair". While you are thinking of beard as the free flowing long beards, the school (as they kids are still 14-15 year old) is more worried about 1-2 day old "stubble". And if you have seen anyone with a day or two stubble, he looks kind of lazy and sleepy. So the rule is nothing more then a way for the school that every student looks properly groomed, nothing wrong with that.

As i have added in my last post, the Peshawar high court judge had asked a women lawyer not to wear a veil in the court as she was a professional. Bascially his intent was to convey the message that the judge had to see the face of the lawyer to know he was indeed talking to the right lawyer and also so that he could hear her clearly. Now you can take this situation and understand what the intent is !!!!!!

[ehtasab]

My School don't allow bindi, Its a Catholic Missionary School, 99% are Hindus, nobody complained, and who gets beard in school, i mean do peple get beard at the age 15

When I was in grade 7 some of my class fellows were shaving, so people do get beard at age 13-14.

[Punjabee_in_USA]

^ Religion is not something bad thing to hide.

Everyone should be allowed to exercise a religious act specially wearing an attire or keeping beard if they want to.

SC judge giving personal opinion is what makes him incompetent.

That thinking is the reason why you live in a religious state and we don't :)

[Himalaya]

What do you expect - most symbols are probably non-Hindu so it will have to ban them.

Its ironic how theyw ant to ban religious symbols yet they dont want to stop the lynchings of religious minorities such as Sikhs, Muslims, Christians and lower castes.

India has a lot to learn from tolerant nations. I have to admire how India covers itself so well even though it has a huge human rights problem.

Jinnah vindicated once more - for the state to prevent someone from practicing his own belief in a way that does not impose on others is just wrong.

I was horrified to learn from Punjabee's opening post that Sikh children in India are not allowed their right to wear a kirpan to school. In the UK, they have this right.

It is indeed sad that the Sikh people have more freedom in the Uk than they have in India.

[simplyme]

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

^^

The school formulated the rule. The rule was not formulated based on religious principles. It is a common sense rule. The school wanted its students to look well groomed and not look tardy and lazy. If this guy had a problem with the rule he should not have joined the school. Period...

[simplyme]

This behavior vindicates the behavior of the Taliban themselves. They were/are famous for shaving off heads of people who actually shaved their beards. This convent school is doing the opposite. Also proves the point that at the end of the day, every form of government is dictatorial, its just the election process that is different.

This is the after effect of living in a county of dictators.. Please understand that this is the rule that was implemented by a school for its students. The school officials did not roam around the country side and insist that everybody should be clean shaven and take action if they did not follow their suggestion.

[hareem01]

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

So muslim beard is equivalent to "kirpan" and "trishol" according to hindus....lol

[lakkis25]

@hareem01

So muslim beard is equivalent to "kirpan" and "trishol" according to hindus....lol

when people mention trishul it looks funny, only sadhus & baba's carry those