Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

A step in the right direction by the Supreme Court.

Overstretching religious freedom in a “secular” country should not be allowed. Today if this is allowed, tomorrow people would want to bring “kirpans” and “trishools” to school in the name of freedom of religious expression.

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SC says no beard in school, doesn’t want ‘Talibanisation’

New Delhi: Rejecting the plea of a Muslim student that he should be permitted to sport beard in his convent school, the Supreme Court observed secularism cannot be overstretched and that “Talibanisation” of the country cannot be permitted.

“We don’t want to have Talibans in the country. Tomorrow a girl student may come and say that she wants to wear a burqa, can we allow it?” Justice Markandeya Katju speaking for a bench headed by Justice Raveendran observed.

While asserting he was a secularist, Justice Katju said religious beliefs cannot be overstretched.

“I am secularist. We should strike a balance between rights and personal beliefs. We cannot overstretch secularism,” the judge, known for his incisive remarks said.

Justice Katju passed the obsesrvation while dismissing the petition of the student. Mohammad Salim of Nirmala Convent Higher Secondary School, a government-recognised minority institution in Madhya Pradesh, sought quashing of the school regulation requiring students to be clean-shaven.

Challenging a Madhya Pradesh High Court verdict that had earlier dismissed his plea, Salim submitted that every citizen was entitled to follow his religious principles and that no one should restrain him from doing so in a secular country like India.

Salim’s counsel Justice (retd) B A Khan argued before the bench that sporting beard was an indispensable part of Islam.

But Justice Katju was apparently not impressed with the argument and quipped “But you (Khan) don’t sport a beard?” the judge asked the counsel.

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

Jinnah vindicated once more - for the state to prevent someone from practicing his own belief in a way that does not impose on others is just wrong.

I was horrified to learn from Punjabee's opening post that Sikh children in India are not allowed their right to wear a kirpan to school. In the UK, they have this right.

It is indeed sad that the Sikh people have more freedom in the Uk than they have in India.

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

secular nation with discrimination. .. .lol

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

Folks who believed Jinnah moved to Pakistan in 1947. Those who stayed back knew fully well that the right to religious freedom would be less than in an Islamic country, just by virtue of living in a non-religious (secular) state. They still made the choice to live in a secular country. And not being allowed to overtly assert religious freedom goes not just for Muslims, but for Hindus, Sikhs & Christians as well.

Besides the fact that schools in India stress on "uniform" appearance, whats ironic is that this guy wants to study in a convent (Christian) school but still sport a beard as an expression of his religious (Islamic) belief. He could very well do it in an Islamic school (madrassa) !!

And for your information, even in the US students are not allowed to bring "kirpans" to school :)

So which country should Sikhs have chosen to move to in 1947 to be able to exercise their religious compulsion to wear kes, kangha, kachhehara, kara, and kirpan?

And secondly, where in India then should a religious, bearded student be able to get a western education? You're typecasting and expecting that religious families do not want progressive education for their children while retaining traditional religious beliefs.

So now we know that Sikhs in the UK enjoy greater liberty than they do in either India or the USA. Again a sad reflection on both those nations.

Sikhs are free to wear Kes, Kangha, Kacha & Kara in schools. The only restriction is against Kirpan. And even Hindu students are not allowed to carry a "Trishul" to schools :)

Convents have their rules. If one cannot follow them, don't enroll in them. You want to sport a beard as an expression of being a Muslim, go to Islamic religious schools.

Today if this is allowed, next you know people would be raising a hue & cry about being forced to sing "Our father thou art in heaven..." in a chapel in convent schools. If you dont like that, dont go to a convent school. Period !!

Its freedom of choice - you dont want to live in USA/India, go to UK. But dont expect that just because UK does something everyone else has to follow it.

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

Good rule. Pakistan too should ban beard-ism in schools, colleges and madrasahs.

Otherwise we'll continue to die at the hands of Islamists. Our mosques, schools, and offices are no longer safe, because we have given too much freedom to the terrorists and terroristic ideals all in the name of Islam.

US UK and other European societies do uphold human rights. And they do a better job compared to India or other Asian countries.

However Islamists will make sure that such human freedoms are slowly taken away.
France has already banned Hijabis from schools. Other Europeans will follow suite in the coming years.

I agree that human rights are protected a lot better in US & some European countries compared to Asian countries. Not so sure about UK though :) However, minorities have a lot more rights in India than in any other Asian country.

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

The school should have the right to determine such things - why Supreme Court? we have much more important topics for the courts.

Though I don't know the details of the case (no time to read all of it) if the school said no and the boy sued etc, then the court is right to say no - BUT they should say "the school has the right to decide" rather than making stupid opinions such as the one about burka etc.

What's wrong if a girld comes to school in burqa if the school allows it? for example a muslim girls school?

Sometimes secularism is wrongly used.

That said it is very very very comical to read some remarks by some posters here regretting lack of rights for Sikh and Muslims in UK and India ----do these people forget they are from Pakistan where minorities are absolutely decimated...whether Hindus or Ahmadis?

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

this is for a private school. private school, private rules. no big news here.

pakistanis going orgasmic and invoking jinnah, get a grip.

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

^ if it were just a case of private institutions setting private rules, the judge wouldnt be saying things like

"We don't want to have Talibans in the country. Tomorrow a girl student may come and say that she wants to wear a burqa, can we allow it?" Justice Markandeya Katju speaking for a bench headed by Justice Raveendran observed.

and waxing on about balancing secularism with rights and all that good stuff.

Maddie, I completely agree. This is vindication once again for the need to break India up. As for Punjabi in US's point that those who wanted to live a Muslim lifestyle left in 1947 and the rest need to regard their lot as a result of their decision not to leave, to some extent that is true. However one must bear in mind that many may have wanted to live in a Muslim country, but did not have the ability to do so. Bear in mind that the 45-46 elections were for Muslims largely a referendum on partition. Muslim League swept all Muslim seats across India. A majority of Indian Muslims did not emigrate. A majority of Indian Muslims did vote for a party with its main platform as Pakistan.

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

There is a fine line between having religious freedom and "overstretching" it in a secular country and the Supreme Court has ruled on that.

This reminds me of a case in USA (Minnesota I believe) where the plaintiff had gone to court because his employer had refused him 5 breaks a day for prayers. The judge obviously ruled in favor of the defendant.

As I said earlier, if one wants to live in a "secular" country then one should accept the laws otherwise one can go live in a religious state.

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn’t want ‘Talibanisation’

Next you know N Korea will start crying “Talibanisation” too :hehe:

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

And we must not ever think of India as country where religious freedom is exercised.

PIU justifies creation of Pakistan and made those who stayed or live in India feel being losers.

*Mixing having beard with talibanization is hilariously stupid.
*

Must be a stupid Judge!

Making someone shave his face for whatever reason is infringing upon that person's right and liberties.

Many non-muslims have (or had) beard for both religious or non-religious reasons..

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn’t want ‘Talibanisation’

^ Looks like you did not read any of the previous posts :slight_smile:

This is a private convent school, and has its own set of rules. This student went to the court protesting against the school’s rules and the court ruled against him.

Are you trying to say that not allowing someone to break the rules is justification for creation of Pakistan :hmmm:

The verdict is not of a principial of a private school, its from a judge of one of country’s SC benches… isn’t it?

Re: Indian Supreme Court says no beard in school, doesn't want 'Talibanisation'

that is why I think the judge should simply have said, the school has the right to decide. All that talk about burka etc is stupid indeed coming from a supposedly learned judge.

but you guys from Pakistan trying to scope some point are simply lacking credibility. If you were objective you'd be looking at what religious extremism, taleban and support for taleban etc have turned people to such over reaction against the simplest sign of beards and burkas