the indian minority population is approximately 100x larger than the pakistani minority population. as such, of course there are more abuses. given the respective percentages, there are also far more non-abuses.
also, "treatment of minorities" does not end with abuse of minorities. it also includes opportunities given to minorities. in this sense, india is leaps and bounds ahead of pakistan. i doubt any pakistani would think of denying this given each country's relevant track record and resume.
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we have more dalits plus muslims than pakistan there only few haris
in pakistan. 250 million dalits 140 million muslims and 25% dravidians
8% tribals so every body is one way other minority and we have our bengal and pakistan dont have bengal.
Even Muslim Bollywood stars have to marry Hindu women to be a somebody. That says it all
As for those here, who claim to be Muslims, yet hold their MOTHERLAND India so dear to them, maybe they are under the impression that India will hold them accountable on the Day of Judgement and not God. We don’t need such Muslims, they are a stain to Islam and should stay in India where they belong.
PS. Indian Muslims would give anything to enjoy the freedom and standard of living that Muslims in Pakistan enjoy. I have heard it straight from the horse’s mouth.
nikhil25, the percentages dont matter even if you're forced to include shias into the equation. theres enough hindus and christians in pakistan to make for a sizeable segment should it come to killing them. it hasnt happened, regardless of your insinuation, you cant bring up ONE incident to produce the kind of minority ethinic cleansing you imply.
and look at the effect of the extremists in Pakistan. over the course of the past five years, around 700 people killed. thats a good day in one of your town wide, city wide, province wide collective flirtations with mass murder. reason? because ordinary people dont do violence in pakistan, criminals do.
everyday sunnis dont kill everyday shias, its a certain segment. with you people, it seems that when the time comes the fragmentation of your society is such that everyone just goes crazy.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by ravage: *
nikhil25, the percentages dont matter. and look at the effect of the **extremists* in Pakistan. over the course of the past five years, around 700 people killed. thats a good day in one of your town wide, city wide, province wide collective flirtations with mass murder.
everyday sunnis dont kill everyday shias, its a certain segment. with you people, it seems that when the time comes the fragmentation of your society is such that everyone just goes crazy.
give it up already.
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tell me in the name of allah what you did in bangaldesh .
clinging to straws eh? since when were muslims considered minorities in pakistan? they arent even shias samjhe..
miyan those werent minorities. nor were everyday people involved. any atrocities done were carried out by the army, under orders, like you folks do in kashmir.
no, we’re talking about periodic rampages involving men in shalwars and dhotis not khakis.
ah.. 'anti-minority action'.. great wordplay once again.. i repeat.. laws that might be abused as compared periodic, glorified, naked to the world orgies of blood. atleast we have some shame.
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Really, I see very little evidence of it.
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selective Amnesia. Gujrat riots. Bombay riots. The massacre of Sikhs in the 80s. And we're talking minorities here miyan, musalmanon kay muamlay may kyu partay ho?
BULL****. give me any evidence that there was any large scale killing of minorities in Pakistan after partition and the ensuing violence was over. have any? i'd wager not.
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1971 - Million plus murdered
Mass murder of Baluchis in the mid 1970s
Ethnic cleansing of Gilgit shias in the late 1980s
Cleansing in Parachinar after the Afghan war
Sending SSP goons in support of the Taliban to mass murder Hazaras across the border
Rather impressive for a country with 3% minorty population wouldn't you say? ;)
Seems to me that you are the one with short memories.
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*Originally posted by ravage: *
no matter how much our polarity and no matter how crazed our extremities are, bloodbaths have never been as mainstream in our country mashallah.
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That's because you had big bloodbaths and killed or converted most who resisted ;)
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*Originally posted by ravage: *
it just amuses me that none of your vastly unsubstantiated allegations are even about minorities, and then you say:
incredible really..
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Ravage, when you say minorities, do you mean people with two pricks growing out of their foreheads? Minorities don’t have to be just religious minorities. Other than Punjabi Sunnis, everyone is a Minority in Pakistan one way or another.
Talwar, please get your facts straight. It wasn’t “just” a million plus… it was a whole 3 million. Don’t shortchange our efforts and don’t belittle our best deed. Thanks.
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*Originally posted by ravage: *
im sorry, but its the mob mentality thing i disagree with. mobs fighting mobs just doesnt happen in pakistan.
anyway.. i agree. it is sad.
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Ravage,
You need to get consistent.
All of a sudden you want to exclude actions by your army. Why is that?
If you look at the history of communal riots in India, in many occasions the minorities - in areas where they were in number, have killed Hindus in large numbers as well.
We had riots in Aligarh, Bhiwandi, Jaipur, Aurangabad, Hyderabad (1991-92) local Muslim gangsters killed scores of innocent Hindus.
I'm not saying that largescale riots don't happen in India. They do. We are over a billion people with close to 20% minorities and many areas where communities are closely packed together. $hit happens.
But you have not proven that all largescale riots in India are somehow State sponsored.
You guys have a larger area and smaller population overall and a very miniscule minorty community that is beaten down and intimidated to begin with.
In India the minorities are not weak. They have fought back on many occasions. That is why we have seen a lot of mob vs. mob examples.
Can a Christian community in Pakistan even dare to form a mob to protest without the fear of being jailed in the name of blasphemy?
Your demographic profile is different.
But Pakistan is no saint when it comes to state supported minority pogroms, as my examples showed.
it just amuses me that none of your vastly unsubstantiated allegations are even about minorities, and then you say:
[quote]
Rather impressive for a country with 3% minorty population wouldn't you say?
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incredible really..
re: $hit happens.. yeah right.
and its a seperate thing to be 'not a saint' and to have everyday people as opposed to allegedly people under orders from one idiot indulge in the mob massacres.
again, you havent presented any evidence of similar minority victimisation. all stuff presented is either about muslims with each other, or random hate crime, or just blatant insinuation.
spin the fairy tales elsewhere miyan.. all this talk about 'can you imagine what would be if' just doesnt pass muster in a grown up debate.
I have substantiated enough cases. Unless of course you deny 1971 included large scale attacks on Hindu East Pakistanis or say that Gilgit Shias were not minorities.
The Gilgit attack itself killed 700 plus in a day of bloodletting by Sunni SSP mobs sent by Zia. Given the sparsely populated area, it is quite feat one must add.
So what do you want. To ban BJP but let them form the government like your people do? Your bans are faker than Pamela Anderson’s you know what.
Modi is a leader of a right wing party. Modi is guilty of callousness and cruel acts of omission. But do you have any proof of him ordering the riots?
By the same token, has Pakistan arrested MMA leaders for inflammatory statements against minorities? Has Qazi Hussain ever been charged for provoking anti-minority violence? Has a single jihadi leader been arrested and convicted?
Tell me why Pakistan has not punished anyone for the Gilgit pogroms or for that matter why your army promoted those who murdered millions in 1971 instead of executing them?
So Zia was an exception hey. What a cop out!
In Gilgit they killed 700 people in a day. Given the much smaller population, the numbers more than exceed the proportion of Gujarat.
First you say - No largescale violence in Pakistan
Then I gave you proof and you say - Army does not count
Then I gave proof of state supported extremist groups and you say they also don’t count and it’s only “everyday” people (whatever that means) that count
What next? Only those who use knives instead of guns? Or only burning victims counts?
You are a step lower than clutching at straws. And that’s no fairy tale miyan
that count