Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
Ehsan bhai, Kya baat karte ho. Remember Kargil. Pakistan Government denied any involvment, now Mushy in his book confesses it. Pakistan denied any involvfement in nuclear black market, then when caught red handed - Khan saab ko bali ka bakra bana diya.
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
No they will not, because it will be a political blunder. Like the Nuk black market, the Pakistani government will find a new bali ka bakra in that case.
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
nayrayal et al, remember the ISI Monkey Man which used to go and beat up people in Delhi? Did you find evidence as to whether he was a Pakistani or not? I still think it was the famous bollywood actor Jackie Sherroff.
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
There is no evidence... The Indians beat some poor guy have to death until he admited whatever they want... Its like the old joke with the police which make the elephant admit he is a deer...
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
Some interesting facts to consider:
The police commissioner said the attackers, financed and trained by the ISI in Bahawalpur in Pakistan, placed explosives in pressure cookers in bags on the trains, concealing them with newspapers. He said some of his information was gleaned from 15 suspects, 11 of them Pakistani, arrested since the attacks and questioned under the influence of “truth serum” drugs; a method he called “narco-analysis”.
While fictional accounts of intelligence interrogation give these drugs near magical abilities, information obtained by publicly-disclosed truth drugs has been shown to be highly unreliable, with subjects apparently freely mixing fact and fantasy. Much of the claimed effect relies on the belief of the subject that they cannot tell a lie while under the influence of the drug.
Already, it looks like at least part of India’s claim is based on “highly unreliable” information gleaned through drugging suspects.
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
Its interesting how you have started coming up with excuses for not believeing the evidence even before it has been handed over 
Depending on who you ask, narco analysis/truth serum has different effects.
A person lies by using his imagination. In the Narco Analysis Test, the subject’s imagination is neutralised by making him semi-conscious. In this state, it becomes difficult for him to lie and his answers would be restricted to facts he is already aware of.
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
I didn’t say that the suspects deliberately lied.
http://www.fmsfonline.org/truthserum.html
*August Piper, Jr., M.D. discussed the problems of the “truth serum” sodium amytal in a 1994 FMSF Newsletter column, reproduced below. See also: Piper, A. “‘Truth serum’ and ‘recovered memories’ of sexual abuse: A review of the evidence,” Journal of Psychiatry & Law/Winter, 193, pages 447-471…
…Further, these investigations noted
that the drug also makes patients vulnerable to either accidental or
deliberate suggestions from the interviewer.*
In other words, when someone is under the effect of a truth serum (all of which work on a similar basis to alcohol intoxication), the person becomes more receptive to suggestions by the interrogator.
There is a very good reason, after all, why police forces in developed countries do not use truth serums in routine investigations. The quality of what you get out is poor. And that’s with the skilled interrogators you get in the West… I dread to imagine the crap a desi interrogator would get out of someone under the influence of such drugs.
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
It looks like India’s whole case is based on a technique that US state courts already identified as being scientifically unreliable. And some of our Indian guppies are still desperately clutching at straws by trying to defend the accuracy of these means
Already in this article you’ll find the Bombay police comissioner stating that truth serum was the key to tying the case together. Now read on below.
*Does truth serum work?
Not in the sense that it makes people tell the truth. So-called truth serums lower your inhibitions, and as a result you may become chattier but not necessarily more truthful. Losing your inhibitions isn’t the same as losing your self-control. Subjects who have been administered a “truth serum” can lie, they can fantasize, and they can be manipulated into telling falsehoods by an interviewer’s suggestions and cues.*
*Barbiturates such as scopolamine, sodium amytal, and sodium pentothal were first touted as truth serums in the early 20th century. Because they inhibit control of the central nervous system, truth serums were supposed to induce a hypnotic “twilight” state that elicited a mechanical recitation of truth. In reality, though, the only good truth serums are found in bad science fiction.
Researchers could have found a much older (and equally unreliable) claim of truth-telling for a similar drug in the old phrase in vino veritas. As Lindsey vs. United States, a 1956 federal appeals court decision, found, “The intravenous injection of a drug by a physician in a hospital may appear more scientific than the drinking of large amounts of bourbon in a tavern, but the end result displayed in the subject’s speech may be no more reliable.” (…)
The Supreme Court decided in 1963 that a truth serum-induced confession was unconstitutionally coerced. More recently, state courts have found truth serum-induced testimony to be scientifically unreliable and inadmissible.*
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
^
Mumbai police Commissioner A.N. Roy said an intensive investigation **that included using truth serum* on suspects revealed that Pakistan's top spy agency had "masterminded" the bombings. *
India's case is not based on truth serum confessions alone. The truth serum was just used to get information which was then verified e.g. the hawala money that was sent from Pak via Dubai. As it says in the article you quoted, truth serum makes the person 'chattier' and thats what it was used for.
Try again, dude....:)
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
^^
Link to that please.
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
^ Its from the link you posted. Google karne ke baad kamse kam padh liya karo
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
guys, just chill out. let see what happnes?? if pakistan don't take any action against ISI and LeT, india has her all rights to take action against them..even if accused are on other soil.
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
And quote the part of the article that said that…
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
^ Look at post # 29. I quoted & highlighted the relevant text. Its the 4th paragraph.
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
Talking about evidence, how about this ?
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
And for those doubting the investigation process, read this -
*MUMBAI: “We had absolutely no clues after the 7/11 blasts but small, simple, logical steps helped us unravel the case,” Mumbai police commissioner A N Roy said on Sunday.
The investigators got their first clue when telephone call analysis revealed that someone from Navi Mumbai was making four to five mobile-to-mobile calls a day to a place on the Bihar-Nepal border before and after the blasts on July 11.
The man, Mumtaz Chaudhuri (32), an Arabic teacher in Ghansoli, Navi Mumbai, had no police record. He said he was speaking to his brother-in-law, Kamaal Ansari, a resident of Madhubani district in Bihar.
It was only when the antecedents of Ansari were checked with the Intelligence Bureau (IB) that the police realised they had a proper lead. Ansari (36) was a known operative of the Lashkar-e-Taiba, who had been to Pakistan for arms training. He had been arrested by the New Delhi police in 2002 for possessing an AK-47 rifle.
Digging further into his past, the IB realised that Ansari’s real job was to escort Pakistani militants across the India-Nepal and India-Pakistan borders.
He was the one who had escorted two of the 11 Pakistanis involved in the 7/11 blasts from Nepal to Patna on May 25 and travelled with them to Mumbai. Ansari was arrested and flown to Mumbai. His interrogation provided the police with vital early leads.
Another vital clue came from the forensic experts of the National Security Guards, who recovered three pressure cooker handles from three of the blast sites.
Soon, chemical analysis of the dustings from the blasted train compartments and a study of the damage done to the compartment by the National Bomb Data Centre revealed that each bomb contained around 2.5 kg of RDX and was placed in a pressure cooker.
The Mumbai police matched it with information from interrogated suspects and quickly zeroed in on the shops from where the cookers were bought. The shopkeepers remembered the buyers as they were a group of Kashmiri-looking men who discarded the packing at the shop itself and took the cookers in bags. *
*The police got some leads from the Auranagabad arms haul as well. On May 9, 2006, the Anti-terrorism Squad (ATS) of the Maharashtra police chased and caught a jeep near Ellora and seized 30 kg RDX, 10 AK-47 rifles and 2,000 bullets.
During the interrogation of the arrested, the police realised that they were desperately trying to contact someone called Feroz Deshmukh in Mumbai.
This man turned out of be the librarian of the well-known Islamic Research Foundation at Dongri in Mumbai. Deshmukh (27), a tall, slim man, had not police record and his interrogation after the blasts led to eyebrows being raised.
Deshmukh was made to chat on the Internet the absconding accused in the Aurangabad arms case and obtain a contact number, which turned out to be from Bangladesh.
Monitoring this number showed that there were frequent calls made to Mumbai. It was based on this information that Abdul Majid, a resident of Raja Bazar, Kolkata, was arrested for being a pointman of the LeT.
According to the police, Deshmukh was the only link between the Aurangabad and Mumbai modules of the LeT. However, the telephone call analysis was of limited help to the investigators as the terrorists rarely spoke on their cell phones. “They gave each other a missed call, which was signal to use a pre-determined public phone,” said Roy.
Another simple step the police took was the detention and interrogation of all former SIMI activists. Sifting through the list, the police zeroed in on Ehtesham Siddiqui, general secretary of SIMI’s Maharashtra unit. “He sang like a canary and told us everything except his own role,” said Roy.
Narco-analysis helped where sustained interrogation failed. The accused revealed during the narco-analysis that they knew how to make inprovised explosive devices. They also revealed the names of some of their associates. Linking all the information helped the police put the jigsaw together. *
Yeh India hai, Pakistan nahin hai ke haathi ko maar maar ke hiran bana diya jaye 
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
It didn’t say anything about Hawala money transfer there. Quite aside form which, the whole problem with hawala from a security standpoint is that it’s nearly impossible to track. That’s why countries are trying to ban it.
As for the articles you posted:
a) Whilst I don’t particularly care for Cheema or the kind of country his type would want to make Pakistan into, the article makes no mention of how he was linked into the plot other than saying he trained the attackers. How was that link established? Through interrogation with drugs or physical means?
Incidentally, that article acknowledges that Indian Muslims are the militants. It is not even repeating the long-standing Indian mantra that Pakistanis are behind all the violence… it’s making the accusation that Indian Muslims are being trained by militant NGOs in Pakistan
b) The second article omits to describe how those individuals were linked to LeT. It simply says that they were; then again, the US government also said that so many individuals held at Guantanamo were linked to Al-Qaeda, based on evidence that turned out to be extremely flimsy or non-existent.
More to the point (because LeT may be behind some violence, hence Pakistan’s ban on them), the second article also makes no mention of ISI or any official Pakistani role.
If what the article says is true, the whole attack seemed to be planned, facilitated and carried out by Indians in LeT and SIMI. A native, born-in-India problem being blamed on Pakistan.
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
If its Indian muslims behind the attacks, then its not Pakistans fault, it Indias.. Perhaps if India paid more attention to its minority populations, they wont resoprt to blowing things up.
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
if indian muslims are the puppets and pakistanis are pulling the strings, then why would blame only fall on the puppets?
charles manson never so much as touched anybody, yet he is serving multiple life sentences. why?
Re: India to share Mumbai bombs evidence with Pakistan
let's see the evidence first before jumping to any conclusions