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*Originally posted by rvikz: *
no un forces will come there they dont want to be caught between
both. wo will pay for this with bood and money for somebody's conlfict?
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There's no question of UN to be stuck between Pakistan and India. If you have read the charter of UN, it's main point is to basically normalize tension between the countries, who are on the edge of war. Creation of UN came into being not to have Wars after WWII.
India blames Pakistan for infiltration. An accusation, which Pakistan refused. The only neutral body can figure out who's right or wrong is the United Nations. India should accept presence of UN along side of the LoC. Presence of UN in Indian Kashmir shouldn't be alarming to India or should it?
All I can say is go for it...peace with security and some sort of agreement on the resolution of alld isputes. In Kashmirs case it should be in the best interests of Kashmiri's rather then Pakistanis or Indians.
There's no question of UN to be stuck between Pakistan and India. If you have read the charter of UN, it's main point is to basically normalize tension between the countries, who are on the edge of war. Creation of UN came into being not to have Wars after WWII.
India blames Pakistan for infiltration. An accusation, which Pakistan refused. The only neutral body can figure out who's right or wrong is the United Nations. India should accept presence of UN along side of the LoC. Presence of UN in Indian Kashmir shouldn't be alarming to India or should it?
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exactly. If UN sits on their asses because of loosing their life and money then what's the purpose of it. Deploy the god damn UN forces on the LoC. Kon kitney pani mein hai khud hi pata chal jaye ga.
and PT well said.. then what is wrong with UNO.. wo kyon nai chahty ke Mashl-e-Kashmir solve ho
anywya good move by vaajpaye.. let see what they do in that talk… and hope they will consider kashmiri awaaam first and then bring their national interest
I don't mind offering to talk with Pakistan but going past history of unreliable promises, we should not talk to Musharaf. May be we should insist on a better elected Pm before offering talks. After all, he (Musharaf) was not an elected person - even Arafat had more standi than him! Jamali may be but I don't know how he can impose his decisions with Musharaf controling all aspects of power!
Vajpayee on Saturday said from the bullet-proof glass(ahem bullet-proof glass needed 'cause Kashmiri people from rural areas were bussed in by the loyalities of Vajpayee i.e Indian Democracy).
Anyway, this is what, something close to, Vajpayee said:
"I have offered hand of friendship to Pakistan."
Jamali's response: "Pakistan's stand remains the same. But once talks start there... could be flexibility from both sides."
When Indian politicans heard immediate response from Jamali, RSS/BJP/VHP went like 'Oh sh*t Vajpayee, you forgot to mention Cross-Border Terrorism senstence. Next day, Vajpayee had the same tune. Comments made by Vajpayee were edited!
Conclusion: We are back to square one. Unless a neutral body, i.e UNO takes charge of LoC, peace can't be possible.
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*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
Okay, here's how sumed up this talks offer story.
Vajpayee on Saturday said from the bullet-proof glass(ahem bullet-proof glass needed 'cause Kashmiri people from rural areas were bussed in by the loyalities of Vajpayee i.e Indian Democracy).
Anyway, this is what, something close to, Vajpayee said:
"I have offered hand of friendship to Pakistan."
Jamali's response: "Pakistan's stand remains the same. But once talks start there... could be flexibility from both sides."
When Indian politicans heard immediate response from Jamali, RSS/BJP/VHP went like 'Oh sh*t Vajpayee, you forgot to mention Cross-Border Terrorism senstence. Next day, Vajpayee had the same tune. Comments made by Vajpayee were edited!
Conclusion: We are back to square one. Unless a neutral body, i.e UNO takes charge of LoC, peace can't be possible.
End of Story.
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The moment Vajpayee takes a step forward, Advani and Mishra step on his tail. This happened in the Agra Summit when the draft declaration was agreed but Advani & Co. had the last say. Vajpayee is controlled by the 'hawks'.
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*Originally posted by tshombe39: *
The moment Vajpayee takes a step forward, Advani and Mishra step on his tail. This happened in the Agra Summit when the draft declaration was agreed but Advani & Co. had the last say. Vajpayee is controlled by the 'hawks'.
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tshombe - With due respect to your eyesight for locating VajPayee's tail, May I ask who stepped on Vajpayee's tail in Lahore ??
After all Lahore was a successul trip with lots of promises from both sides.
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*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
Okay, here's how sumed up this talks offer story.
Vajpayee on Saturday said from the bullet-proof glass(ahem bullet-proof glass needed 'cause Kashmiri people from rural areas were bussed in by the loyalities of Vajpayee i.e Indian Democracy).
Anyway, this is what, something close to, Vajpayee said:
"I have offered hand of friendship to Pakistan."
Jamali's response: "Pakistan's stand remains the same. But once talks start there... could be flexibility from both sides."
When Indian politicans heard immediate response from Jamali, RSS/BJP/VHP went like 'Oh sh*t Vajpayee, you forgot to mention Cross-Border Terrorism senstence. Next day, Vajpayee had the same tune. Comments made by Vajpayee were edited!
Conclusion: We are back to square one. Unless a neutral body, i.e UNO takes charge of LoC, peace can't be possible.
End of Story.
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un is most imcompetant it wont work . only good for avoiding lot of parking tickets in nyc.
I have heard that Vajpayee himself is a peace loving person and it is reflected in his poetry as well but it's his ministers around him that has been creating problems. An example is given that even during President Musharraf's visit to Delhi agreement had been reached between him and vajpayee but at the final stages these anti-peace elements in the government created mess.
I just wanted to know if there is any truth in it. especially from our indian friends.
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*Originally posted by khan_sahib: * An example is given that even during President Musharraf's visit to Delhi agreement had been reached between him and vajpayee but at the final stages these anti-peace elements in the government created mess.
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Khan Saheb - Can you tell us please which anti-peace elements in Indian Government created a mess of the Lahore Declaration ??
Can anyone please tell us what was there in that declaration and what happened to it ??
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*Originally posted by Astronut: *
The world environment is changing every day and all Pakistanis think of is Kashmir Kashmir and India is evil. That is the propaganda that is spread back home with the patriotic military songs and what not. Migrating from Pakistan and coming to a western country, then one realizes a more moderate perspective and not just mere propaganda. We have United States which is a bigger threat to Pakistan than India ever is. This was a british conspiracy from the start to have India and Pakistan fighting forever and wasting their resources by leaving a disputed land. Can't Pakistan establish trade with India and still keep Kashmir as a concern with them like many other countries do. Accept the reality we need India more then India needs us just because of its size and enormous trading potential. When United States comes to our doorstep just like in Iraq, won't it be better to have India on our side rather than with the US. Otherwise we will really be in trouble! India will never give up Kashmir because that would be suicide for India as it would give other separatist movements in India an upper hand. Any sane country would do that. Look how tense turkey is with Kurds gaining ground in Iraq. Pakistan should take this move by indian PM as an opportunity and establish some kind of working relationship with India.
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If thats how it is in Pakistan... How is it any different in India?
In the end, this is all about Kashmir, and no one is willing to buge where that is concerned.
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*Originally posted by aravamudhan: *
I don't know why Vajpayee is willing to discuss anything with Pakistan - last time he consented to do that, they went right back and started Kargil incursion. Ofcourse that time it was Musharaf - may be this time ABV may have higher opinion of Jamali may be?
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Well, what do you suggest? We bomb each other from the border and live in a perpetual state of no war no peace? Should we go to full scale war? Perhaps a Nuclear exchange is in order? Indians need to get over Kargil, atleast for their own sake.
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*Originally posted by Astronut: *
The world environment is changing every day and all Pakistanis think of is Kashmir Kashmir and India is evil. That is the propaganda that is spread back home with the patriotic military songs and what not.
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and such isn't the case in India. If you don't think so you're probably indian. BTW, when it comes to propaganda nobody beats india.
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This was a british conspiracy from the start to have India and Pakistan fighting forever and wasting their resources by leaving a disputed land
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agreed. If Kashmir issue solves tomorrow both nations would emerge as prosperous and devoloped within the next 25 years.
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Can't Pakistan establish trade with India and still keep Kashmir as a concern with them like many other countries do.
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Last I checked there is "still" trade going on. Just tell India to resume the Samjhota Express and other transportation.
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When United States comes to our doorstep just like in Iraq, won't it be better to have India on our side rather than with the US.
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NO. I'd rather prefer Isreal then trust India with Pakistan.
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Pakistan should take this move by indian PM as an opportunity and establish some kind of working relationship with India.
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everything is dust and smoke as I type this. The small window of oppertunity that was opened for very brief period of time was closed by the Indian gov't only giving the Pakistani side just a chance of welcoming it.
Khan Saheb - Can you tell us please which anti-peace elements in Indian Government created a mess of the Lahore Declaration ??
Can anyone please tell us what was there in that declaration and what happened to it ??
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Declarations are mere hogwash if there is no sincerity. After all the great Pandit Nehru also made a declaration and a 'solemn pledge' to hold a plebescite in Kashmir.
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*Originally posted by tshombe39: *
Declarations are mere hogwash if there is no sincerity.
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Then why are you crying that Advani and Hawks prevented Vajpayee from signing the declaration ? Afterall it was going to be another Hogwash. Remember the following ??
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*Originally posted by tshombe39: *
The moment Vajpayee takes a step forward, Advani and Mishra step on his tail. This happened in the Agra Summit when the draft declaration was agreed but Advani & Co. had the last say. Vajpayee is controlled by the 'hawks'.
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