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Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

** Fewer grooms for Kashmiri women

**Until about a decade ago, most Kashmiri families would see their daughters married off before they turned 25.
Now, this has stretched to as late as 35 years.

Also, during the long years of militancy, the Kashmir Valley has lost at least **60,000 people **- most of them young men of marriageable age

In the absence of development schemes in the state and the high unemployment rate among Kashmiri men, that is a tall order.

60,000 people dead? eh? This can legally be classified as genocide. And where is all this development that you indians say that you are putting into Kashmir?

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

ok where did u get that info about negative birth rate in kashmir. From what i understand from the official website of jammu and kashmir that the population growth is more than the average population growth of India. Prove me otherwise.
here is one link to a news item where govt of jammu kashmir planning to formulate policy for lowering population growth in Kashmir.

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

Education is free only in govt schools.

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

vineshvk its common sense, when so many kashmiri men have been slaughtered the rate is obviusly going down too. And read the BBC article the median age for a married kashmiri women has gone up considerably, and at that age, women can bear alot fewer children. Also the satst for Kashmri would be skewed with the addition of Jammu in the stats, Jammu is mostly hindu, and offcourse they are going to expreience a high population growth rate because they are not the ones being peresecuted.
and you didnt answer my questions where are all the development schemes that you guys keep talkign about in Kashmir?

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India


Actually the article which vinesh posted talks about reducing Kashmiri growth rate, because there is a population boom.

Assuming your figure of 60,000 killed how does it match in comparison with 5 million people ?
And those 60,000 were killed in the course of 18 years.

Probably far more people die in accidents in Mumbai or Karachi alone in just one year and their population doesn't decrease !
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Also the satst for Kashmri would be skewed with the addition of Jammu in the stats, Jammu is mostly hindu,
[/quote]
No actually Kashmir, Jammu and Ladakh are explicitly mentioned by the media while reporting.

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

Minorities are always at a disadvantage, but considering how many muslims are actually in India, that shouldn't be the case.

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

Are you seriously equating the thousand of Kashmiris slaughtered to car accidents? And most fo the Kashmiris who died were men, read the damn article i put up, why do you think Kashmir women are having trouble finding grooms? or do you think BBC is biased?

[quote]
No actually Kashmir, Jammu and Ladakh are explicitly mentioned by the media while reporting.
[/quote]

hmm most of the stuff i found includes kashmir as part of "Jammu & Kashmir", havent found alot of stuff which puts Kashmir, jammu and ladakh as seperate places.

And i wonder why you are not answering my question about where is all the development projects that indian government is putting in Kashmir?

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

No serious development can occur until there is total peace and normalcy in Kashmir. When the whole of the country is progressing and industries are developing, It is only in kashmir that even the existing industries (like Tourism) are going down (or almost gone).

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

Ok now u show me a figure of men to women ratio in kashmir. Ur common sense is only based on what ur media feeds u with or what u think is the reality in kashmir. Its far from truth my boy. As mentioned in the article it is also becuase the men wants educated women and hence its one way good for kashmiri women that they are allowed to study. U are only talking in the air. U only look at things which u think closely match ur ideology. :)

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

mercenary:

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Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India
[/quote]

Muslims are even more disadvantage group in Zionist regime.

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

well i dont see israeli jews going to israeli arab neighbourhoods and killing over 3,000 muslims

muslims in israel are a lot better off than muslims in india

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

Zionist brutes have already expelled millions of the original inhabitants of what is now known as Zionist regime. Hindus would also like to do it with Indian Muslims, and since they can't do it, therefore they resort to violence.

Of all that is left of Palestinians in Zionist apartheid regime, it is wrong to say that they have not been the victim of violence. But the number of Muslims killed by Zionist fascists can not be compared with Muslims killed by Hindu zealots, because of the relative population of the two countries.

Besides, Israelis have their attention right now focussed on killing Muslims in Illegally Occupied Palestinian Territories and Lebanon.

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

Zionists never expelled any muslims. the muslims left on their own when the arab armies lost the 48 war and fled.

this has happened time and time again from the germans living in prussia fleeing to germany after the germany army was retreating in autumn 1944 from the soviet red army or the korean people fleeing the oncoming chinese/north korean armies or the south vietnamese fleeing the north vietnamese army

The amount of Israeli Arabs killed on direct authority and blessing of the Israeli government is ZERO.

Number of muslims killed by Israel maybe be around 40,000 or so but that includes dead arab soldiers, lebanese civilians, hamas and islamic jihad terrorits and palestinian civilians. the question is whether the israelis mistreat their muslim population as much as the indians do to theirs. and the question is they dont.

Those territories were legally occupied when Arabs launched the 1967 War to annhiliate Israel.

If the Arabs wanted peace they can get those territories back like Sadat when he got the Sinai back from Israel. The Sinai is twice the size of Israel and Israel gave it back for peace.

But until and unless Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and Iran continue to pledge to destroy Israel

What incentive is there for Israel to return Golan Heights, West Bank, East Jerusalem to the Syrians and Palestinians and give up such a strategic areas and make Israel's geographical position so vulnerable?

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

well, I'm sure the arguments here between Indians and Pakistanis will continue on why their country is superior, let me point some logical reasons for why muslims in India are the most disadvantaged minority group.

India is doing economically great because its middle class is doing so great. Unfortunately, muslims are a very very small % of this middle class. As I see it economically, I only see a small upper class and a large lower class Indian muslims. The middle class is almost non-existent. Why is so is a good question. To me, some of it is historical. During partion, a lot of upper class and middle class muslims migrated to Pakistan leaving behind a lareg part of lower class in India. Unfortunately, the lower class still gets swayed more by the maulvis than their own brains. India has done well in the last 15 years or so because of the knowledge of english. Unfortunately, the lower class still does not encourage its kids to learn english and therefore, they find themselves at a great disadvantage when it comes to these new jobs.

Things are changing, but too slowly for its impact to be felt immediately. In India, the best way to move up in life is through quality education and whoever manages to get that, does well. I did my MBA sometime back from the best college in India, (Indian Institute of Management) there were 12 muslims in a class of 190 and all of them are doing great. Two of them are my good friends and we work in the same company. The key to improve the econnomic status of muslims is to increase this % in good institutes and that needs a willingness to learn english and embrace the modern education system.

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

This need of yours is in a process of being fulfilled. I know coz my Mom is a Head Mistress in a primary school. Traditionally the teachers job was only teaching, but now they are exhorted by the Government, to go out to the under privileged kids and get them to school.

Believe me its a ttough task, to get them out of there mindset, hence some marketing and sales is needed. Thats provided by Mid day meals to woo the children, clothers provided by the government.

This is a huge task, I dont know much about North India since I am in Bangalore and hearsay of other south indian states, the future looks bright.
Well unfortunately the Muslims are made the target, i personally feel the media should stop highlighting, some non sense and instead should be the means of spreading the need for education.

I remember when I was young Doordarshan did work on the project of education, but today the media is not working on this factor. The government on this aspect is trying there best, but we have work on it collectively.

Well I feel the second coming of Swades is needed.:)

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

M2K, tell me does U.N. mean anything? Should countries follow what they say? Isn't it the will of the world to be carried out by the U.N.? Than why doesn't Israel do it? huh, thats right everyone recognizes Israel brutality, as much as you love to see them as unfallible, they are the main contributor in this sorry state of affairs in the middle east, U.N. says the occupation is illegal, and to get out and stop oppressing the Palestinians, Israel occupying and oppressing Palestinians, Palestinians fighting back in different ways, some ways r very wrong, but Israel refuses to do anything because they say they are protecting themselves, so let me get this straight, Israel occupying Palestinians, Palestinians fight back to get them to leave, Israel uses that to oppress even more, peace in the middle east never if this cycle continues, and if Palestinians stop doing everything will help, than what would the problem be, Israel doing what its doing, and Palestinians sitting back and taking it, no one would even notice, so tell me who's fault is it that Israel occupies and oppresses Palestinians.

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

But UN also acknowledges Israel's right to exist

so tell me why do so many countries do no recgonize Israel's right to exist?

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

Prince Abbas, Mercenary2k and Afridi, this thread is about Indian Muslims so please leave Palestine/Israel conflict out of this, thanks.

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

Education only way out for Muslims: Sachar’s most senior member
SEEMA CHISHTIPosted online: Saturday, November 11, 2006 at 0000 hrs Print Email
New Delhi, November 10: As the PM’s high-level Sachar Committee looking into the status of Muslims prepares to submit its report later this month, the seniormost member of the committee, Saiyid Hamid, has said that the keys to improving the abysmal literacy level in the community lie as much with the Government as with the Muslim community and its leadership.

“The most important thing is to improve the health of those institutions where Muslims go and which are managed by Muslims,” Hamid, Chancellor of Hamdard University, and former Vice Chancellor of Aligarh Muslim University, told The Indian Express. His views assume significance given the ongoing debate in the committee — and outside — on a possible prescription for the severe under-representation of the community in all sectors.

As reported in this newspaper last week, there is a divide in the committee on this. A view shared by very few in the committee is that reservation could be the answer but the majority feels that reservation would be a red rag, making more noise than helping Muslims. They are in favour of a wider approach, involving creation of opportunities, enabling them to get educated and be able to compete.

Hamid emphasises the need to focus on education as in his opinion, it’s the only real way out. He said there is an unfortunate trend of the standard of Muslims being low in mathematics, science and engineering. “The NCERT used to organise workshops and refreshers for Muslim-managed schools but that scheme lapsed. This needs to be revived, as does the training of bright teachers. I have met the Director of National Institute of Educational Planning and Administration, who has agreed to start a course for Muslim teachers.” “While planning for education,” says Hamid, “don’t lose sight of the fact that what is required at homes of successful school going children is awareness amongst parents and their support. These aren’t there in most poor Muslim homes.”

He added, that “society must step in to do what families and Muslim homes are unable to achieve. Most of us live in densely populated colonies bursting at their seams, where it is impossible to pursue studies.” Hamid said he was aware of the divide between the standard of North Indian and South Indian Muslims, saying he has been putting forward solutions for backward areas here “like community reading rooms, which have a steady flow of information on employment opportunities and higher and gainful studies.”

Hamid has not also spared the Muslim leadership of its responsibility. Writing in the Urdu newspaper, Daawat (the mouthpiece of the Jamaat-e-Islami), he said: “Despite the post-independence democratic set-up and secularism in India, the biggest minority here was drowned in deprivation. The leaders didn’t realise that if Muslims remain victims of narrow-mindedness and prejudice, the country’s hands and limbs would be paralysed.”

Taking pot shots at both who have fanned anti-Muslim sentiments and the Muslim leadership, he wrote: “The cold shouldering and prejudice by certain leaders of the country was met by Muslims withdrawing from the struggle of life. Their (Muslim) leaders also never told them that withdrawing from life (zindagi ki lehar) would amount to suicide.”

Underlining that the Ulema had great influence on the Muslims, Hamid said even this did not result in the advancement of education. “The education imparted in Madrasas kept them connected with the faith, but as it emphasized learning by rote, rather than understanding things, those coming out from the average Madrasa were deprived of both, religious and worldly wisdom…In the old days, Muslims were alive because of research (tehqiq), activity (harkat), the spirit of enquiry (justuju) and the thirst for knowledge (aarzoo). With them gone, Muslims have now lost their place of pride in the world of knowledge.”

[email protected]

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/16417.html

Re: Indian Muslims are the most disadvantage group in India

Reply to Mercenary2k:
[Zionists never expelled any muslims. the muslims left on their own when the arab armies lost the 48 war and fled.
Those territories were legally occupied when Arabs launched the 1967 War to annhiliate Israel.
What incentive is there for Israel to return Golan Heights, West Bank, East Jerusalem to the Syrians and Palestinians and give up such a strategic areas and make Israel's geographical position so vulnerable?
so tell me why do so many countries do no recgonize Israel's right to exist?]

First of all, implanting a Zionist colony in the middle of Arab lands is ipso facto wrong. The region of Israel and Palestine became a British protectorate after Ottoman Empire collapsed after World War I. Before the War the British promised the Jews all over the world they will get their promised land (Balfour Declaration 1914). They did so to gain support of powerful and rich Jews for their war against Germany.

British had no right to give away something which they didn’t own. It was a breach of trust (of the League of Nations). At that time the population of this region was: 50,000 Jews, 50,000 Christians and an overwhelming majority of Muslim Arabs.

Therefore the Arabs and the Muslims feel genuinely aggrieved because a wrong was committed to them in the first place. Even now the so called “One-State Solution” will ensure that the region of Israel and Palestine, together, will be governed by the Arabs because they are still in the majority. But neither Israel nor Arabs want this solution. They want to live separately.

Most Muslim and Arab countries agree that even now if Israel gives independence to West Bank they will recognize it because the demography has changed over time. But the real bone of contention is now East Jerusalem and the illegal settlements of Israel in the West Bank.