India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
61

Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

No im talking about port of origin.. Where do these smuglled weapons start out? Dubai? Someplace in Africa?
How are the LTTE able to cover their tracks?

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Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

http://www.svik.org/thai.htm

this should explain to a certain extent. I know indian government can do more to help lankan government to fight LTTE. but what to do, sri lankan government is also not very clean and perfect. they opposed indian troops fighting against LTTE in 1980s and they asked indian troops to get out in 1990. and the very same people who opposed indian troops presence in sri lanka, they themselves wanted indian troops to come back when the conflict again started in 2005.

as far as covering their tracks goes, it should be asked to sri lanka. they were not able to detect a turbo prop aircraft also. so i guess it would be difficult to detect for them to detect their ships also.

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Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

You know, if you talk to Tamils, they seem to have a very good case against the Sri Lankan govt… Tamils seem to have some genuine grievances.. Many Tamil, even the well to do ones support the cause, if not the methods.
In Canada Tamils really feel harrassed by the tigers there.
On my part, I wish the Pakistan govt would stay neutral in all this… But NOT because India demands it, but because this is an internal matter for the Sri Lankans.

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Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

Offensive weaponary, I dont understand the terminology . Every weapon is offensive in nature. Nobody have weapons just to defend. Leaving aside the terminology, if you are talking about weapons which kill in mass numbers (very distructive) then India has all rights to refuse and also prevent SriLanka from acquiring too. Tamils have a relationship with India and India will not allow given the power it has to arm Srilanka with ur so called offensive equipments. India has a genuine problem with LTTE, but not with tamils in general. Tamils have legitimate right over Srilanka and Sinhalese should learn to co-exist with tamils. Pakistan or China have no business in Srilanka. It is India who is the neighbour and tamil majority is living in India, neither is tamils threatening pakistan or China so that they need to enter into this conflict.

Kon kon tun hay aaj ?
65

Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

It is not ridiculous. I can give you an example. The pushtuns are spread across Afghan and Pakistan. What happens when Pushtun (assuming they are in minority in afgahanistan) are being systamaticaly eradicated by weapons supplied by Pakistan to afghanistan( hazaras or iranians whoever).
If Pakistan has the power, u will not also allow any other nation supplying weapons and arming Afghan to take out the pushtuns. This is just a hypothetical situation, I am not comparing tamils and pushtuns and their problems.
Now to reality,
What Pakistan doing in Afghanistan is just the opposite to what India is doing in SriLanka. Pakistan has been arming ( or part of it) pushtun resistance and does not care or do anything to the govt. in Afghanistan. India on the other hand is arming the Srilankan govt. and not LTTE.

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Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

[quote]
India on the other hand is arming the Srilankan govt. and not LTTE.
[/quote]
^ Totally negates what your ministers and actual ground standing of the indian govt.

Btw, the sri lankan situation is different since sri lanka is not threatening India [doesn't support terror movements inside india unlike in pakistan at the behest of "another country"]. Pakistan is seriously not arming the taliban otherwise I can tell you that northern alliance will fall down. US, in that case, will have to come to a deal with taliban sooner than later as 20-30000 troops don't mean jack when Soviets deployed hardened 150,000 troops in the eighties. If Afghan govt is going to support BLA at the behest of a neighborly [lol] country then pakistan can exercise its rights as well. India has done the same even before kashmir by supporting alzulfiqar and sindhudesh and BLA ancestors.

Don't even give bull about kashmir as kashmir is a disputed area..

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Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

Dude... FYI Pakhtuns live across Pakistan and Afghanistan, not because of some mass genocide, but that has been their traditional geographic location... Pashtuns have generaly lived around Southern Afghanistan and North West of Pakistan... This is where majority of them still live... So your wrong on that account.
Pakistan did not supply any weapons to anyone against Pakthuns, if anything, Pakistan has always favored Pakhtuns in any conflict. Still, once the Soviets left, most of the war lords that destroyed Kabul werent Pakhtuns but member of other ethnic groups, the same that made up the N alliance... These groups werent supplied by Pakistan and most are vehmently anti Pakistan. The Taliban were a Pakhtun group, and were the ones who filled the vacuum created by the waring warlords. Also, like someone said, Pakistan has had to deal with an aggressive Afghanistan which has never recognized Pakistans current borders, unlike the case with Sri Lanka... India has actually used Afghanistan against Pakistan for their own intrests... But I doubt you would know anything about that..
You seem to know very little about Afghanistan, so I will leave it at that.
Im asking you if its fair that Pakistan doesnt allow Indians access to Afghanistan? Pakistan doesnt allow over land trade between Afghanistan and India, because this would allow India to increase its role in the region.
However you spin it, the Indians have complained about this, and its a fact that the Indians have tried to influence the Afghans at Pakistans expense (although Pakistan has not done the same in Sri Lanka).
And as far as what Pakistan does in Afghanistan, thats still not the point, the point is involvement, not the nature of that involvement. Although just as a clarification, Afghanistan hasnt had a govt since the soviet era, just bands of militants, so that can hardly be compared to Sri Lank that has a legit govt.
So unless your willing to agree that India has no right to have any influence or support to Afghanistan, a country that is within our sphere of the world, you cant claim the same rights over Sri Lanka...
And India may be a super power in its own mind, but I doubt anyone in Pakistan or any of your neighbors are willing to roll over and die.... So for your own best intrest, why not get over this big headed arrogance? India isnt America, hell India isnt even China.. So stop trying to be the mouse that roared...

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Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

In reality all Sri Lankan's cannot stand the Indian big brother attitude. Rajiv Gandhi was humiliated at a welcoming ceremony by a Sinhalese who hit him with his rifle. Then he was blown to pieces by a Sri Lankan Tamil suicide bomber.

Aaj Kiss Baat Par Gussa Aaya ??????
69

Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

Quite simply, offensive weaponry means that the Sri Lankan Army will have the capability to launch an offensive war.

Primarily, Rocket Launchers for saturating enemy positions with deadly fire. This weapon proved most deadly against the Tamils as the Sri Lankan Army got it from Pakistan. Anti-Tank Missiles useful for destroying fortified positions, Armor Personnel Carriers to ferry troops to the battlefield in protection, Mortars to shell enemy positions. Night Vision Goggles, so that the Sri Lankan Army can conduct operations in the night.

These are the weapons that Sri Lanka asked from Pakistan and this is what we will deliver.

What India has offered is Radars, jamming equipment, machine guns and light infantry weapons. Hardly the weapons needed to defeat the LTTE terrorists.

And why don't Pakistan and China have any business in Sri Lanka?

Sri Lanka is an independent country which can make decisions on its own.

If India refuses to help Sri Lanka against the LTTE terrorists then it has every right to seek other countries help in its fight.

If it chooses to buy weapons from Pakistan and China and so be it. Who the hell is India to dictate foreign policy to another country?

And besides, Pakistan, Burma, Bangladesh, Nepal and now Sri Lanka all have better relations with China than India. All buy mostly Chinese weaponry rather than Indian weaponry.

India is a regional bully, and the current threat to Sri Lanka is yet another example of a long line Indian attempts to bully its neighbors, whether its flooding Bangladesh, not helping Nepal in its struggle against Maoist rebels, or building dams which divert water to Burma.

Pakistan is the only country strong enough to stand up to India within the region and is entering this conflict on the side of the Sinhalese to increase our geo-political importance, to sell our weapons and make profit, to help our Sri Lanka friends against these terrorists, and create a strong alliance with Sri Lanka and project our power across this region and end the hegemony of India which is spread throughout this region and much despised.

Pakistan will continue to do this, whether India likes it or not.

A shareef person from MQM
70

Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

:lajawab: srilanka involving pakistan and china will make situation more worse then resolving

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Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

no bickering please.

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Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

This is the exact reason why i didnt want to draw parallels with afghanistan. Tamils have been murdered in large numbers in Srilanka. Around 25% business establishment in Colombo used to be controlled by ethnic tamilians. All that changed with the rise of sinhalese nationalism. Systematically tamils were massacred, many fled to India and those who could afford fled to western countries.
Indias involvement in Afghanistan was to reduce the threat of Taliban and Alqeida taking their war to India. Taliban was not only a threat to Pakistan or Afghanistan but also to the the entire Indian subcontinent. Allowing Al-Qaida and supporting Taliban to operate from their territories in Afghanistan is suicidal for India and the rest of the world. Even after that India has not publicly supported northern alliance or arming the afghan army. They might give training, all in a defensive situations. Indian work in Afghanistan is purely humanitarian. Why would Afghans buy Indian arms when they have super power to support them. Srilanka is an independent country, but ethnic cleansing and mass murders of tamils in Srilanka will effect India directly, hence India has all the right to get involved in it. Tamil conflict has nothing to do with Pakistan, Pakistan is not threatened by LTTE. Neither is China need to be worried about it. The whole purpose of Pakistan involvement in the south is just to ferment regional trouble in southern India. Tamil Nadu will not stand idle if large scale massacre of tamils take place in SriLanka. Chinese will not care, they will even sell arms to LTTE. They have been supporting oppressive regimes all across the world.
It is Indias interest to take out any influence Pakistan has in Srilanka. A muscle flexing is necessary to show Srilanka its rightful place.

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Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

Read the post above for the first part

India could have easily taken out the maoist, as India also deals with maoist rebels in many parts. But when India realized that the local support is with the maoist and not with the king then India supported a democratic setup and forbid the king against using excessive force against the maoist. This was the right decision and the decision of many democratically elected countries across the world.
Second para is just jingoism. No substance in that.

!!!!!BATHROOM MAIN!!!!!
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Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

So in other words, India left Nepal high and dry

Works for us, we are now selling weapons to Nepal

Rally to launch Bilawal Bhutto's political career - will be held in Great Britain
Rally to launch Bilawal Bhutto's political career - will be held in Great Britain
75

Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

**We are not getting involved in Sri Lankan's Civil War...

Why are you against us selling Weapons to Sri Lanka?

India can't give Offensive weaponry to Sri Lankan Army as it will antagonize the Tamils in India.

Sri Lanka needs to end this war which has torn its nation apart for 25 years and thus needs offensive weaponry.

What I don't understand why you fail to comprehend such a simple concept.

If India cant give Sri Lanka offensive weaponry to deal with the LTTE then obviously its going to look for these weapons from other countries such as Pakistan and China.

So therefore India has become an obstacle to peace in Sri Lanka. If Sri Lanka conducts large operations against LTTE, the tamils in India will get pissed and therefore India will pressure Sri Lanka to stop its offensive against the LTTE terrorists.

Then how exactly can Sri Lanka rely on India for help against these LTTE terrorists?

Isn't it common sense that Sri Lanka will look to other countries for Weapons, whether it maybe Pakistan or China.

Their rightful place as India's *****?

This is exactly the kind of thinking which has led to most if not all of India's neighbors to have better relations with China than India.

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Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

that is why i said, india should mediate when both parties themselves are asking for it. There are no two ways about it.

either you sell arms to sri lanka or allow them to get it from others. irrespective of sri lanka getting it from india or not, they would certainly go ahead and get it from others. Or you mediate. Choice can only be one.

One more option could be, If indian government fears increased influence of others in sri lanka, then help sri lankans economically(which already it is doing) and continue to supply small or so called defensive weapons. But this cannot be for long term.

Actually, long term solution cannot also be war in turn for that buying weapons from outside.

77

Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

Pakistani supplied multi-barrel rocket launchers help defeated the LTTE terrorists in 2000 and helped Sri Lanka secure the city of Jaffna.

India would have never provided such weaponry.

And you wonder why Sri Lanka is coming to Pakistan and China for military equipment.

End of a fragile peace in Sri Lanka

Rasheeda Bhagat

As the events unfold in Sri Lanka and newer areas in the troubled nation are drawn into the conflict zone, it is fairly certain that the uneasy, fragile peace has been shattered. With the cricket tri-series and the SAF Games in jeopardy, the coming days will tell how tourists respond to the violence in the island-state.

With the bomb blast that killed seven people in Colombo on Monday, and which had the signature of the LTTE on it, it is now certain that the period of fragile peace in the island-nation is finally over. The blast was apparently targeted at the Pakistani High Commissioner, Mr Bashir Wali Mohamed, who was returning from a function to celebrate Pakistan’s Independence Day, on August 14.

While terrorist activities of all shades have to be condemned, many Indians would have read with a pinch of scepticism the Pakistan envoy’s statement after the attack that “Pakistan does not condone any terrorism.” While Mr Mohamed, a retired colonel and former director of Pakistan’s Intelligence Bureau, had a narrow escape, his security vehicle carrying Sri Lankan soldiers bore the brunt of the attack, which killed four soldiers.

The reason why a Pakistani diplomat in Sri Lanka would be targeted in an attack attributed to the Tigers is not far to seek. The relationship between Pakistan and Sri Lanka has always been cordial and long years before Indian tourists could get “visas on arrival”, Pakistani nationals enjoyed this privilege. Of course, today, Indian tourists far outnumber Pakistani visitors in Sri Lanka and are warmly welcomed by the travel and tourism industry as they have deeper pockets.

Pakistan is a major supplier of arms to the Sri Lankan government, and would naturally be on the hate-list of any organisation against which those weapons are used. The attack, carried out in the heart of Colombo, barely two km from the Taj Samudra, where the Indian cricket team is staying, is a clear signal from the Tamil Tigers that they are spoiling for war. But in Colombo, the speculation on the street, as pointed out by Mr Jehan Perera, Media Director of the National Peace Council of Sri Lanka, in a telephonic interview, was that the “bomb was meant for someone else”, perhaps the EPDP leader and Minister for Social Services, Mr Douglas Devananda. But the LTTE would also have enough reason to target a Pakistani envoy, he said. “Pakistan is one of the main suppliers of arms and weapons to Sri Lanka and the multi-barrel rocket launchers (MBRL) supplied by Pakistan are credited with enabling the Sri Lankan armed forces to turn back the LTTE from the entrance to Jaffna in 2000,” he said. The MBRLs are also being used in the present military conflict in the east and the north.

`Conspiracy’ theory

As for the whispers that the targeting of a Pakistani diplomat was related to the present standoff between orthodox Christianity and radical Islam, and the church using the LTTE to target an Islamic country’s envoy, he said: “There has been a long-standing suspicion in the south that there is a Christian conspiracy to destabilise Sri Lanka. That is because the Christian churches have been sympathetic to the Tamil cause and struggle.”

During my recent visit to Colombo, more than one person had mentioned that the LTTE was back in the business of armed conflict “thanks to the support it is receiving from some European churches”.

The concern in some quarters of southern Sri Lanka is that proselytisation is on the agenda of Catholic churches. When asked if Sri Lankan Tamils were being converted to Christianity, Mr Perera said the LTTE had indeed received such complaints “but it doesn’t seem to be interested in taking action”.

Mr P. Saravanamuttu, Executive Director of the Centre for Policy Alternatives, confirmed that “the Catholic conspiracy theory is indeed popular in some Sinhalese quarters here”, but he does not subscribe to it. On the attempt to kill the Pakistan High Commissioner, he said this was because “Pakistan is seen to be helping the Sri Lankan government by giving it military supplies, which were being used in the north and the east.”

Phase of war begins

He said Sri Lanka had entered “a phase of war which would be fought to a point where one of the sides wins, or both sides think they’ve had enough, or the two sides feel secure enough to think it’s time to talk to each other.”

Mr Perera, however, believes that "war has not actually broken out. I’d say we’re in a war-like situation because neither side has officially declared a war or said it is withdrawing from the Ceasefire Agreement.

“So far the engagement is not total, and there is intense fighting only in pockets. Till the CFA holds, even if only on paper, my hope is that both sides will realise that the cost of a military conflict is going to be too high and resume dialogue. But this will depend on a stalemate being reached”.

At the moment, no stalemate is discernible. Following the spat over the blocking of the waterway by the LTTE and the associated military engagement, on Tuesday, the Tigers accused the Sri Lankan Air Force of having bombed an orphanage in the LTTE-controlled Mullaithivu district and killing 61 school-children as they were undergoing a first-aid training course.

Mr Perera said that while the Government maintained that the youngsters were LTTE recruits who were receiving military training and the Tigers said they were receiving first-aid lessons, “the more probable story doing the rounds is that these children were forced by the LTTE to undergo military training. Even if the children were undergoing military training, the humanitarian thing to do was to make all efforts to get them out of such a situation rather than drop a bomb and kill them. But the Government seems to be sticking to its justification.”

Growing threat

As the events unfold in Sri Lanka and newer areas in the tiny, troubled nation are drawn into the conflict zone, it is fairly certain that the uneasy, fragile peace has been shattered.

The cricket tri-series is in jeopardy, the forthcoming SAF Games will be conducted under heavy security, and the coming days will unfold how tourists respond to the latest bout of violence in Sri Lanka.

Will they shrug off the threat from terrorist attacks? After all, this is today a threat that is dogging travellers in every corner of the world, as proved by the latest diabolic plot to blow up planes flying from the UK to the US, using liquid explosives. Thanks to the alertness of the British intelligence and security systems, the plot was foiled. But the terror networks have succeeded in petrifying travellers and overstretching security measures to ridiculous levels.

One has always admired parents travelling with infants and toddlers across thousands of miles, a trying experience at the best of times. But today, we have reached a stage when parents will have to taste the milk carried for their babies for the flight in front of the security personnel. Can there be a more pitiable statement on the times we live in?

78

Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

Then why haven't they?

Why is it a country like Norway is mediating between Sri Lanka and LTTE. That should be a disgrace to India that Norway carries more diplomatic weight than India in Sri Lanka

Exactly. But India having such a large Tamil population will be seen as pro-Tamil.

Then the war will continue.

So India is caught between a rock and hard place. Supplying defensive weaponry won't defeat the LTTE which will force Sri Lanka to look to Pakistan and China for weapons and thus diminishing Indian influence in Sri Lanka or it supplies offensive weaponry to Sri Lanka and therefore antagonize its Tamil population.

If India really thinks about being a Global Power it needs to deal with these issues within its own neighborhood.

If it can't even do that then its not even a power within its own region.

79

Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

Honestly dont buy the excuse that India is only trying to safe gurad Afghanistan against Taliban and Al Qaeda for its own intrests.
India virtually immune from whatever happens in Afghanistan, its usually Pakistan that suffers. Pakistan is actually buffer for you people. When the Taliban were in power, they were contained within Afghanistan, and yet India was still supporting the N alliance, even though the Taliban were not a threat to India.
And I would like to see India's reaction to news that Maoist rebels for instance, are getting JUST military training from Pakistan.
India's motives as far as I can tell are to keep the pressure on Pakistan. Increase influence on the Afghans and continue to make problems for Pakistan. Its a strategy of isolation, make sure there are few if any friendly countries in the region. There is a reason why Indians have had good relations with Afghans for so many years, even before the Soviet invasion, because they wanted to keep Pakistan on the burner.
Indias policy in this region, has generaly been a coersive one all at the expense of Pakistan.
And Afghanistan is only relvant in so far as influence in the region is concerned... If Pakistan has no right trying increase their influence in Sri Lanka through trade, then neither does India have any right to Afghanistan. Our involvement in Sri Lanka would have no serious reprcussions for India, while Indias involvement in Afghanistan has pronounced long term disadvatges for Pakistan.
So whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If India tries to prevent us from having access to Sri Lanka, then we are completely justified in thwarting Indias trade and relation with Afghanistan.
You might think your a super power in the region but we dont.

80

Re: India has rights of an elder brother, says Lanka.

^^ amen to that