Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
I believe its the ‘management’ that is being outsourced, not really ‘ownership’. If I am not wrong, Gwadar was built to serve Chinese demands, not for Afghanistan or Pakistan’s growing business 
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
India has never surrendered it sovereignty so blatantly to anyone
After 9/11, India offered America all of its bases without America asking for them. Its like prostituting for free.
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
I know it is outsourced but which country outsources it national assets? and if it is true what you are saying, it is even worst…we let someone build a port in our country, on our land…and then let that country manage and run that port to serve its interests…and what did we get out of it…and forget what we will get…it is against the very basic concept of national sovereignty…i mean i cant even imagine that china will let us build an asset base on its land and then manage it…are we doing it to tease india? lol
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
After 9/11, India offered America all of its bases without America asking for them. Its like prostituting for free.
yes i heard all that....but you know what..the world goes by facts not by who said what...in the end, which country actually let Americans use its bases...i dont think it was india...
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
yes i heard all that....but you know what..the world goes by facts not by who said what...in the end, which country actually let Americans use its bases...i dont think it was india...
NO! I disagree. You are presenting it as a matter of honor but in matters of honor its not only what happens that counts, intentions also count a lot.
Looking at it that way, its much much more shameful for a democracy to lay down the entire country like that compared to allowing of using bases by a dictator under the threat of being blown up into dark ages.
As for China in Gawadar, its more for security of Pakistan than economy. It is an absolute security need for Pakistan as it is surrounded by Indians and Americans and Chinese presence will act as a deterrent in the face of threats posed by them.
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
As for China in Gawadar, its more for security of Pakistan than economy. It is an absolute security need for Pakistan as it is surrounded by Indians and Americans and Chinese presence will act as a deterrent in the face of threats posed by them.
Excuse me..i cannot believe you just said that....
with all due respect what kind of flawed and sick strategic mentality is that?
since when presence of an international power in your country is a guarantee of your security?
have we seen in a Crystal ball that china will always be our friendly neighbor for next 2 decades?
what if our relationship with china takes a U-turn? how will you kick a monster out of your land in that case?
remember in 1980s, USA was really popular in Pakistan when we were fighting against russia...but 20 years later USA is one of the biggest headaches that we have.....what if we had outsourced our major ports to USA in 80s....
and what about our nuclear capabilities?.... for years our military establishment told us that we are developing nuclear capability to deter Indian threat but now we are being told that we actually need Chinese boots on our land to deter indian and US threat...WTF......if that is the case, we could have outsourced our security to Chinese...
what about national sovereignty? so are we admitting we cannot protect ourselves?
and last but not least, do we have any idea what will local population in gwadar think of this move? Govt of Pak is outsourcing them and their land to china?....excuse me....it must be a psychological dent for them....
i can come up with so many other flaws with this strategy... and yet we are defending it coz somehow we see it as a slap on indian face..not sure how...no matter how i see it, i see it as a slap on my own face!
but you know what my face has been slapped so many times by my own govt and military that i cannot even recognize my own face in mirror....i have zero self respect as a Pakistani expat...i am still trying to recover from bin-laden Abbottbad slap....
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
^Same old “we” “our” and “Us”. 
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
Excuse me..i cannot believe you just said that....
with all due respect what kind of flawed and sick strategic mentality is that?
since when presence of an international power in your country is a guarantee of your security?
have we seen in a Crystal ball that china will always be our friendly neighbor for next 2 decades?
what if our relationship with china takes a U-turn? how will you kick a monster out of your land in that case?
remember in 1980s, USA was really popular in Pakistan when we were fighting against russia...but 20 years later USA is one of the biggest headaches that we have.....what if we had outsourced our major ports to USA in 80s....
and what about our nuclear capabilities?.... for years our military establishment told us that we are developing nuclear capability to deter Indian threat but now we are being told that we actually need Chinese boots on our land to deter indian and US threat...WTF......if that is the case, we could have outsourced our security to Chinese...
what about national sovereignty? so are we admitting we cannot protect ourselves?
and last but not least, do we have any idea what will local population in gwadar think of this move? Govt of Pak is outsourcing them and their land to china?....excuse me....it must be a psychological dent for them....
i can come up with so many other flaws with this strategy... and yet we are defending it coz somehow we see it as a slap on indian face..not sure how...no matter how i see it, i see it as a slap on my own face!
but you know what my face has been slapped so many times by my own govt and military that i cannot even recognize my own face in mirror....i have zero self respect as a Pakistani expat...i am still trying to recover from bin-laden Abbottbad slap....
Uh oh what have I gotten myself into :(
Your arguments sound a bit childish and your brilliant "strategic mentality" is not making sense here. Americans were our friends 20 years ago and now our enemies so that implies China will be our enemy 20 years later :)
And if Pakistan had not befriended Americans 20 years ago, does it mean they wouldn't have come knocking at our door as an enemy now?
Its sad that you get slapped so easily but the biggest slap on your face should have been when Pakistan wanted to hand over Gawadar port to a Chinese company only for operating the port and the Government had to withdraw them after Indians started promoting terrorism in Balochistan.
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
Just to point out the Suez Canal has been out sourced to the Chinese, multiple ports in the Arab world and Horn of Africa to the US military as well as multiple ports all across Latin America. I believe (I could be wrong) the Panama canal is operated by a US firm which functions as the Panama Canal Authority.
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
Pakistanis are handing over their prime port to an international power and there is no shame, no remorse, no guilt, no worry whatsoever...i dont care if Chinese funded the port...they shd not and cannot manage and run it ..it is our port and we need to run and manage it.. PERIOD plus this is a very strategic port..even if it was a piece of crap strategically, we cannot let someone else manage it...do you guys have any idea the way Chinese manage stuff? i have seen it first hand..they will take complete control, will kick all major Pakistanis out and yes they are really arrogant and rude...
but hey we are more concerned abt bashing indians....how abt bashing pak govt for surrendering its sovereignty! why cant we focus on the real issue..why do we indulge in non issues....forget what india is saying....who cares...they will make a statement and we can give a shut up call....but talk abt china taking over our port....THAT IS THE REAL ISSUE....how come no one in pak talking abt it..no anchor, no politician, no army-man, no masses....what kind of idiot we are....what if we have given this port to USA..can you imagine the level of public reaction
India has never surrendered it sovereignty so blatantly to anyone .... indians shd be proud for this...they never let Russians run their ports or use their air bases....sach bolo sach .. we have been prostitutes of international powers from day one...remember 1960s when russian president warned to destroy pak because Pak was letting Americans fly their spy planes from Pak...
kahan tak sunaooon..kahan tak suno gay yae dastan hashar likhiee gayee hai tumhary meray khoon jagar say
You mean, we should take it as mater of honor and let Gawadar port project go waste.
By looking at the politicians' "efficiency", I would pay a hundred thanks them as they didn't make it mater of ego and let the Chinese develop the port. It is the best we can expect our politicians.
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
Here is one company which manages terminals/ports of different countries:
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
I think with so many American military bases, Germany and Japan (along with around a fifty other different nations) have never been sovereign nations with since world war II.
Dunya main self-respect naam ki koi cheez reh hi nahee gai.
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
Just to point out the Suez Canal has been out sourced to the Chinese, multiple ports in the Arab world and Horn of Africa to the US military as well as multiple ports all across Latin America. I believe (I could be wrong) the Panama canal is operated by a US firm which functions as the Panama Canal Authority.
fine..you want to go with panama canal authority example...your humble has actually workd on panama canal expansion project .....panama canal has a very complicated history.....YOU DONT WANT GWADAR TO GO TO PANAMA CANAL ROUTE...US buillt and funded it ..controlled it till 1999 and and behind the door, it is still a bone of contention between China and US and some other global powers...and Panamanian govt is just sandwich....treaty gives the United States the right to intervene militarily to protect access to the canal.
and all those African ports and arab world that you are mentioning..well they are all US puppets ....if Pak wants to be viewed as Chinese puppet, i have no problem..just say it..
and if we really want to lease it, coz u cant manage it...fine but....did we follow proper international leasing process? did we ask bidders to bid for it? i am sure many bidders would be interested and we shd have chosen the most financially feasible partner with no political angle....with clear terms and conditions...duration of lease, pakistan's share in revenue..how much construction will be done in gwadar as part of the deal...how many Pakistanis will be given job... blah blah....did we do all of that? NOOOOOOOOOOO... we took it from a Singaporean company and gave it to a state controlled Chinese company in a heartbeat..there is absolutely no commercial play here..at least not displayed on behalf of Pakistan..
i know why so many "patriotic" Pakistanis are jumping up and down on these news....they are somehow thinking that india will be put in place by doing that ...lol...india india india....uss ko barbad kartay kartay sariee dunya may kartoon ban gaya hai pakistan....par aqal pher bee nahieen ayee....
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
thx captain
and i gave answer in another post…u want to lease it…fine but do it in a proper way..look for your interest first
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
phoenix, China already financed the major part of the project. It is just a holding company as singapore port authority wasn't working out.
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
phoenix, China already financed the major part of the project. It is just a holding company as singapore port authority wasn't working out.
ok...so it is 100% going towards panama canal type arrangement..US financed and maintained panama canal for 80 years and spent over 30 billion US dollars....even in peace time they had 11000 soldiers there...Americans were more accommodating in beginning but gradually took full control of the canal and used to treat local Panamanians with contempt and it was a huge problem...until Carter struck a deal in 80s that US will hand over panama canal to panama by 1999 but treaty still gives the United States the right to intervene militarily to protect access to the canal....i can see so many similarities with gwadar.....shameful decision by Pakistani military establishment without considering all pros and cons...
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
thx captain
and i gave answer in another post...u want to lease it...fine but do it in a proper way..look for your interest first
Can you shed more light where you found the difference on what we are offering to Chinese operator and how others have done it differently?
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
Sorry. Cant shed light. Load shed on.
( end derail).
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
I guess it poses strategic issues for India. Therefore, it is natural for India to be 'concerned' however I'm not sure allowing the Chinese Navy to have a post in Pakistani waters favours Pakistan? Pakistanis need to get of the China is our best friend bandwagon. It's all self interest for China otherwise they wouldn't give two flying ***** about Pakistan.
Re: India ‘concerned’ over China’s role in Gwadar
^ self interest works both ways, as much as we need them the Chinese also needs us. We need to ensure that the port starts running, if our leadership during the past 60 years had focused on the country we would have been in the position to run it ourselves.