Re: In Shia'aism...
its time again to remind everyone that the only place i the Quran where Ahl-e-bait is mentioned refers to wives fo the prophets....
once for the wife of Ibrahim (as) and once for the wives of the Prophet Muhammad (saw)....
but if ppl wish to turn a blind eye towards the Quran, what can we do....
Re: In Shia'aism...
^ according to one interpretation, maybe... but your Sahihs tell another story as usual.
pcg: according to shias, the Prophet (saw) was infallible.
Re: In Shia’aism…
I have heard the same from people in my own family..to be honest I believe the question of infalliability was a serious issue of debate amongst Muslim scholrs following the sunni viewpoint as well..and was not specific to Shias..the addition of the Prophets family is another issue..does that mean Hazrat Ali was on the right side in the battle of the camel? From a historical view point..Hazrat Ali comes across as a less effective leader than his predeccesors..
The importance of the Prophets (pbuh) family in Shiaism is laudabale but at the same time seems to imply that many Shias would have wanted the creation of a Monarchy with claims of divine power..
Re: In Shia'aism...
armughal: So the term ahl-e-bait just means the family members? Or it also means "infallible"?
Re: In Shia'aism...
^
humans and infallible dont go together....
Re: In Shia’aism…
Zakk - What you have heard from your mum is correct.. All the Prophets (asa) are absolutely infallible in conveying the message of Allah (swt) and left nothing out.
The Prophets were chosen by Allah (swt) to guide the Mankind to Him (their Creator). All the Prophets (asa) are immune from committing any sins such as fornication, murder, telling lies, being jealous, having envy, being conceited, being arrogant, being miserly etc. etc. They are the best example to be followed, so every Prophet is free from sin in word and deed.
Being Human, and humans do err, some of the Prophet (asa)’s did in fact err and forget.
This is due to momentary lapse and in no way indicates the will to rebel.
The best example is that of Hz. Adam (as), when his errantly ate the fruit he was forbidden.
Allah (swt) says in the Quran: “And Adam disobeyed his Lord, so went astray. Then his Lord chose him, and relented toward him, and guided him.” (Taha: 121-122)
The Quran mentions similar incidents of other Prophets (asa). All these incidents were just momentary lapses and did not affect their mission to convey the Message of Allah (swt).
Hazrat Ali (ra) was one of the best and ablest of leaders but the tragedy is that he had very few sincere followers. Historical books show he had to constantly rebuke his followers.
Just a few examples from Nahjul Balagha – Authoritative Shia book
How long shall I accord you consideration that is accorded to camels with hollow hump, or to worn clothes which when stitched on one side give way on the other. Whenever a vanguard force of Syria (ash-Sham) hovers over you, everyone of you shuts his door and hides himself like the lizard in its hole or a badger it its den.
**By Allah, he whom people like you support must suffer disgrace and he who throws arrows with your support is as if he throws arrows that are broken both at head and tail. By Allah, within the courtyard you are quite numerous but under the banner you are only a few. **
Certainly, I know what can improve you and how your crookedness can be straightened. But I shall not improve your condition by marring myself. **Allah may disgrace your faces and destroy you. ** You do not understand the right as you understand the wrong and do not crush the wrong as you crush the right. - Nahul Balagha sermon 68
Woe to you. I am tired of rebuking you. Do you accept this worldly life in place of the next life? Or disgrace in place of dignity? When I invite you to fight your enemy your eyes revolve as though you are in the clutches of death, and in the senselessness of last moments. My pleadings are not understood by you and you remain stunned. It is as though your hearts are affected with madness so that you do not understand.
You have lost my confidence for good. Neither are you a support for me to lean upon, nor a means to honour and victory. Your example is that of the camels whose protector has disappeared, so that if they are collected from one side they disperse away from the other side.
**By Allah, how bad are you for igniting flames of war. ** You are intrigued against but do not intrigue (against the enemy). Your boundaries are decreasing but you do not get enraged over it. Those against you do not sleep but you are unmindful. By Allah, those who leave matters one for the other are subdued. By Allah, I believed about you that if battle rages and death hovers around you, you will cut away from the son of Abi Talib like the severing of head from the trunk.
By Allah, he who makes it possible for his adversary to so overpower him as to remove the flesh (from his bones), crush his bones and cut his skin into pieces, then it means that his helplessness is great and his heart surrounded within the sides of his chest is weak. You may become like this if you wish. But for me, before I allow it I shall use my sharp edged swords of al-Mushrafiyyah which would cut as under the bones of the head and fly away arms and feet. Thereafter, Allah will do whatever He wills.
O’ people, I have a right over you and you have a right over me. As for your right over me, that is to counsel you, to pay you your dues fully, to teach you that you may not remain ignorant and instruct you in behaviourism that you may act upon. As for my right over you, it is fulfilment of (the obligation of) allegiance, well-wishing in presence or in absence, response when I call you and obedience when I order you. - * Nahul Balagha sermon 34*
Re: In Shia’aism…
Back to brother Lajawab’s question:
We should appreciate that the Qur’an is an Arabic book that has been revealed to people whose language was Arabic. Even today if you invite an Arab friend to come to your house with his Ahl-ul-Bait, by default he will come to you with his wife [wives if he has more than one] and children who are still staying in his house, he might bring his married children and their spouses or he might not. He might even bring a brother/friend if the brother/friend is considered as one of the permanent residents of his house.
He will be extremely shocked and probably more hurt if he finds that invitation to Ahl-ul-Bait only meant his married children and grand children and NOT his wife. This is because for any Arab, the word Ahl-ul-Bait (which literally means those staying in the house) includes the wife (or wives) of a person.
This was in no way any different at the time of the Prophet (pbuh). It is interesting to note that even in Iran (being a Shia-Muslim dominated country) people use the word Ahl-ul-Bait to refer to the wife as well as children of a person.)
If you look at any popular book of Arabic words you will find that in the definition of Ahl-ul-Bait, wife/ wives is/are included. If you look at elsewhere in the Qur’an (11:73) you will find that one’s wife is included in the meaning of the term.
If you look at the usage of the term by the Prophet, his wives and his companions (as recorded in the books of Hadith and history) you will find that it was used in its default meaning (that includes wife/wives).
In Al-Qasas 28:12, the phrase “people of the house” (i.e. people in the same house) is used as an expression to indicate a lady [Prophet Moses’s (as) mother] who can nourish Prophet Moses (as).
And she said to his sister: Follow him up. So she watched him from a distance while they did not perceive, 28:11
*And We ordained that he refused to suck any foster mother before, so she said: Shall I point out to you the *people of a house ** who will take care of him for you, and they will be benevolent to him? 28:12
So, We gave him back to his mother that her eye might be refreshed, and that she might no grieve, and that she might know that the promise of Allah is true, but most of them do not know. 28:13
Re: In Shia'aism...
So I really don't get the point of this question...
What are you trying to get at if the answer was that wife(s) are not part of the family of the Prophet?
Re: In Shia'aism...
oh look what I found. I see what you're getting at now. :)
The wives of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam)
The Shiite's bear the same enmity and malice for the wives of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), as they bear against the Sahaaba. They are frequently referred to as hypocrites and infidels.
Re: In Shia'aism...
^ hmmm close but not quite. The Prophets (saw) wives such as Umme Salma, Bibi Khadija etc. are one of the most respectworthy women in Islam. its only the actions of one or two that we have issues with.
:)
Re: In Shia’aism…
Strange thing is that when Allah (swt) condemn those two wives in Quran for thier wrong doings then nobody dare say a word but when shia point out that those wives went against Quran and orders of Prophet (s) after his death (read hadith and tafseer books for reference) then the whole shia nations is to blame on thier enmity towards those wives. :rolleyes:
Any how back to the topic. Following is a link to a PDF file for every student of Islam on the topic started by lajwab.
To Whom Does The Purification Verse Refer To?! (acrobat reader required)
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Re: In Shia'aism...
Can you provide references for where in the Quran it is said that these two wives did something wrong? And why is this a big deal? I would think that every human is liable to mistake, so why not the Prophet's own family?
In fact, the Prophet's own uncle was a flat-out disbeliever.
Re: In Shia'aism...
anyone who has sense and knows arabic, when reading Quran will tell u that the purification verse refers to the wives of the Prophet (saw)....
if u read a chapter talking about pakistan and someone claimed that the last line (which has no name mentioned) is actually talking about america, wud u not call him insane????
Re: In Shia’aism…
zer01 - what is that nonsense link you put up? I swear if that crap has a virus on it 
Re: In Shia’aism…
[Shakir 66:3] And when the prophet secretly communicated a piece of information to one of his wives-- but when she informed (others) of it, and Allah made him to know it, he made known part of it and avoided part; so when he informed her of it, she said: Who informed you of this? He said: The Knowing, the one Aware, informed me.
[Shakir 66:4] If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders.
[Shakir 66:5] Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins.
why would Allah (swt) say so? were they not submissive, faithful, obedient to Prophet (s)?
[Shakir 33:30] O wives of the prophet! whoever of you commits an open indecency, the punishment shall be increased to her doubly; and this IS easy to Allah.
Exactly thats the point. The Purifies in 33:33 means the people who are pure of sins and errors. So if the wives were also pure then why would they do something so wrong that Allah had to send a whole Ayah to condemn them?
True, this also shows that not every one from Prophets (s) family belongs to Ahl-e-Bait.
BTW have you read the pdf file I linked above?
Re: In Shia’aism…
duh! thats why i converted it from *.doc to *.pdf. PDF is the most reliable format for online documentation. Try right click and save target as on the link.
Sorry for any inconvenience 
Re: In Shia'aism...
If looked at in a historical perspective the argument at the time of Karbala was essentially a political one..and not a religious one.
Both views are essentially flawed, whereas many of the Sunnis believed in consensus and a form of election as being the procedure for election of a new Caliph they ended up supporting the Banu Ummayah who once they had been elected pretty much ran a Monarchy. On the other hand the Shias (besides blaming Sunnis ..by association of the events of Karbala) believed in the sanctity of the Prophets (pbuh) family above all..while the family of the Prophet (pbuh) and his immediate Sahaba were people to be respected and possibly also worthy of leadership that did not give them a divine right of rule nor did it mean they were somehow perfect people. The argument over what constitutes the family of the Prophet is an attempt by Shias to define the limits of what represents people to be revered and who is not to be revered..the sunni variation of this argument I would imagine would be over who constitutes a Sahaba..
Re: In Shia’aism…
I think this is the best answer.
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]**In Surah AL-AHZAB chapter number 33 verse number 6
"The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers. Blood-relations among each other have closer personal ties, in the Decree of Allah. Than (the Brotherhood of) Believers and Muhajirs: nevertheless do ye what is just to your closest friends: such is the writing in the Decree (of Allah). "
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1]Go to Surah AL-AHZAB chpater number 33 verse number 6](http://www.drzakirnaik.com/pages/quranonline/surahs/redirect.php?surah_number=33&surah_name=AL-AHZAB&ahya_number=6&quran_search=Mothers)[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Go to the arabic of surah AL-AHZAB chapter number 33 verse number 6
Click here to play the arabic for this surah.
**[/size]
Re: In Shia'aism...
So one is closer to their kid than their spouse?
Re: In Shia'aism...
Oh so you are rejecting the verse of Holy Quran.