[quote]
Originally posted by Xara:
** nobel, its really such a great shame you havent even the brains to change your name to gormless, yet you call yourself 'nobel'
if its so disgusting why bother sticking around?? get lost pal take your posts and your @$$ outta this thread its not meant for ppl without brains**
[/quote]
Umm, what are you freaking out about? Was I referring to your post?
As we all know that marriage is a combination of alot of factors, and one of them is called compromise. I'm married to an American Jewish woaman, who is in her own way very religious, on the other hand I'm not a practising Muslim. However, I respect her religion and her believes, and vice-versa. We have this non-disclosed agreement among us that we are both going to use our common sense when it comes to our cultural differences. Also, I have never asked my wife to follow the Islamic values, but she does it voluntarily. And when I say Islamic values, I mean respect for( Islamic ) occasions, like Eid, Muharram, Ramazan e.t.c.
ZulfIOK,
Thank you for an interesting perspective on this query. Please excuse me, but I am honestly a bit confused about the term "I am not a practising muslim".
What does that mean?
And if it really means that you do not follow Islam then what is the significance of Eid, Muharram or Ramazan for you?
Also, when you will have children with your jewish wife, will the children be allowed to select the faith which they want, or will you carry out the customary ceremonies for both religions i.e. you will have both an aqeeqa and bar mitzvah for your children?
And you don't have to answer these questions, if you don't want to. I understand these are quite personal questions, anyway.
[This message has been edited by Faisal (edited June 07, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by ZulfiOKC:
As we all know that marriage is a combination of alot of factors, and one of them is called compromise. I'm married to an American Jewish woaman, who is in her own way very religious, on the other hand I'm not a practising Muslim. However, I respect her religion and her believes, and vice-versa. We have this non-disclosed agreement among us that we are both going to use our common sense when it comes to our cultural differences. Also, I have never asked my wife to follow the Islamic values, but she does it voluntarily. And when I say Islamic values, I mean respect for( Islamic ) occasions, like Eid, Muharram, Ramazan e.t.c.
[/quote]
You have a good wife there. Hang on to her.
No Faisal, you dont have to apologise for anything. Your question is legitimate.
When I said that I'm not a practising Muslim, that basically means that I dont pray five times a day, I'm not a frequent mosque visitor and e.t.c. However it does not mean that I dont believe in Allah, ofcourse I do, but it's just that I have lost my track, and hopefully one day I'll start praying. As far as the children are concerned, although I dont have any children as of yet, but I'm of the opnion that the children will basically have the oppertunity to choose their own religion( although I know that according to Islam, childrn are suppose to Muslims, but hey, as I said I'm not a practising Muslim). As far as the your question about Aqiqa is concerned, honestly I have never thought about it, and I'm basically waiting for the time time to tell us...
ZulfiOKC,
Thank you for the additional insight. The last sentence of your post is very thought-provoking. Its my humble request to think these things through before deciding to bring children into this world. If you can figure out the answers to more of the questions before hand, the better prepared you will be to face the challenges of the future life.
Although it is such a political correct statement that children should be allowed to select their own religion, but, practically we all know that many times before the kids are 16 or 18, there will be instances where they need to identify themselves. The customary rituals of both religions for new-borns is merely a start. And as parents, you and your wife will be making these decisions for your children before they can start making their own.
I know many muslims, who don’t pray or go to mosque regularly. You specifically mentioned Eid, Muharram and Ramadan. Does it mean, you do fast for the month of Ramadan, celebrate the two eids and arrange for Muharram? Do you have a muslim community in your area and do you have much interaction with other muslim families?
Your one statement in the middle, indicates that you do understand the consequences of your present life-style and you hope that you will one day re-evaluate your prioritities.
I really appreciate your honesty, wish you all the best for a pleasant marital life and welcome you to this forum.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Faisal (edited June 07, 2002).]
Faisal ji, when i mentioned Eid, Muharram, Ramazan e.t.c., I basically meant, that I celebrate all those occasions. Like on Eid, I goto my relatives houses, and wish them happy eid, but I dont goto a mosque for Eid prayer. Likewise, I'm coming from Shite' family, I do goto majalis and everything at family's house, as far as Ramazan is concerned, I dont fast, but I do get up in the morning for sehri, and at the time of iftar, again I sit with my mom or brother or sisters and have meal or whatever.
However, I do agree with you, when you said that in these kind of cases it's better to plan ahead. But I have seen some families, who have the same kinda background as I have, and they are living happily. Children in those families, are mostly diversed.
I would think it would be hard for anyone to marry outside of their own religion. Personaly I could never do it. I think certain beliefs are just to deeply ingrained.
Brenda
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!!!
if a jew is only born of a jewish mother
and a muslim of a muslim father
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif
what religion is the child going to be? they both contradict oneanother
Sugar, spice 'n all things nice
a muslim? marrying a jew? how much crack did you smoke before this absurd question lit up inside your walnut sized brain?
Better to die 1000 times in glory than live without honor-Louis VI
[quote]
Originally posted by Warlust:
**a muslim? marrying a jew? how much crack did you smoke before this absurd question lit up inside your walnut sized brain?
**
[/quote]
Warlust ji, do you mind explaining to me in detail what's wrong with a Muslim marrying a Jew?
[quote]
Originally posted by Warlust:
**a muslim? marrying a jew? how much crack did you smoke before this absurd question lit up inside your walnut sized brain?
**
[/quote]
watrlust, dont you know that in Islam its actually allowed for muslim man to marry a jewish woman??
Sugar, spice 'n all things nice
[quote]
Originally posted by Xara:
** watrlust, dont you know that in Islam its actually allowed for muslim man to marry a jewish woman??
**
[/quote]
Question is it is also the muslim belief that the christians & the jews havelost the old testament or changed it as in the case of bibles by Mathew James Mark & Luke ....
Do you think there would be so much far apart discrepency between jews & muslims & christians if the spirit & common origin of judeo christian heritage was upheld?????????????
There are more commonality with islam & other religion like Hinduism sikhism than with Jews & Christian in some individual cases yet others are considered Non Ahle Kitab.
My contention is the word Ahle Kitab refers to followers of OLD original Testament which no modern Jew or Christian follows.May be some sect of Christian like Protestent or Shakers or AAmish migh be more closer than the rest but just Jew name or Christian born into Mathew luke mark & James versions of bible might as well be like any other non muslim.
Moreover in such christian muslim & jew muslim marriage it is climb up for the christian /jew than climb down.No higher placed christian like marriage to lower status subgroup would do that .Its like in muslim itself a syed girl can marry a non syed if the boy is exceptionally better in education or wealth than the girl.
For a generic (generalised ) view of marriage & problems issues arguments reasoning of permission of marrying disregarding custommary values.see my post following this
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards." -- Unknown
Xara
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Love is as fickle as the flames of candle lit dinner it started with
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Tribal marriages
In the traditional marriage market, laws of primitive tribalism obtain. These tribalistic laws are given a thin veneer of religion by almost all peoples. Brahminism promulgated such religious laws, Catholics and Protestants did, Jews did.
Hence, common attitudes toward inter-community marriage(of which inter-religion marriages are a special case) can best be understood by the logic of tribalism.
The logic of tribalism has three salient features: (1) Marriage is seen as an EXCHANGE between two families or groups, not a UNION of two souls. (2) Women are considered as chattel, belonging to men. (3) Daily life is pathologically bound up with constant status gaming.
So when two members of a tribalistic universe marry, one group/family “gives” a possession (a daughter) to another group/family. The giving party earns status when the gift is given to a HIGHER status group. The giving party loses status when the gift is “wasted” on a lower status group. The receiving party earns status when the gift is received from a higher status group. It loses status when it accepts a gift from a lower-status group.
Some implications quickly follow -
Irrespective of religion or nationality, people will be far more willing to accept a man from a ‘higher-status’ other group, or a man who himself enjoys high social status.
Outgroup women will be far more welcome than outgroup men. However, women from higher-status outgroup are likely to be treated differently than women from lower status groups. Marriage to women from higher status other-group are likely to be relatively “public” affairs. When property is received from a ‘lower status’ group, the exchange is less likely to be equally public. In positive situtations, the dominant attitude is likely to be of magnanimity (we are good people; we don’t discriminate). In negative situations, the attitude is likely to be one of condescension (we did you a favor - humare ladke to tau kaisee kaisee ladkiyan mil saktee theen).
People with naturally secured status that can not be easily challenged are more likely to accept an outgroup man for their daughters.
Even historically, lower status people gave their daughters to higher status people in return for the latter’s protection, friendship, or simply, mercy. Whoever heard of a woman from a higher status group marrying a man from a lower status group?
Old brahminism had a curious dictum. Brahmin women could NEVER EVER marry a non-brahmin man. However, brahmin men could (although it was not advisable) marry non-brahmin women. Brahminism, went the argument, was a great ocean into which women as tributaries could flow, so long as they were willing to lose their prior identitiy, take up the life of brahmins, raising their children as brahmins.
The silliness of such arrogance and bigotry is, ofcourse, astonishing. But in a tribalistic framework it makes perfect sense. For many people - people with weak individual identities - it is the only way.
Cheers.
“Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.” – Unknown