Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Imran’s Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

That sums up Imran Khan’s entire political stance perfectly. :k:

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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

To me Imran Khan is the last hope for the country. In my current visit to Pakistan, the only good thing happened in country is presence of Imran Khan. He seemed to be honest and focused in his agenda for the country.

For those who does not like Imran Khan, BB, NS, Mullahs or any politician are the agents of military dictatorship. (I can see lots of them in this forum) Perhaps they support military because their survival is dependent on military government, which is a death warrant for the whole country.

If comparison is made between political governments and military dictatorship, military has brought more disasters and corruption than the politicians. Before partition Hindus were ruling my province and now looters, killers, terrorists and daakuus supported by military are ruling.

FARID

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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Sir... with due Respect.... Before giving out such statement Plz check a bit with the History.... :)

If U ask any Hisotrian or even politician.. abt wat was the better time in the history of Pakistan..... 99% will say... The Time of AYUB KHAN...... :)

Men are lustful. Women are gold diggers!
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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Agreed. But what happened to him? Another dictator booted him out on a gun point to cease the power.

Then his was the period of meaningless war of 1965 with India, which resulted in economy of the country came a part, oppression in former East Pakistan, foundation of corruption in military and bureaucracy and ultimately breakup of Pakistan in 1971.

FARID

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Re: Imran’s Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Respect amongst the masses on the scale you speak was achieved by Quaid in the last 15 yrs of his roughly 30 yr political career. Imran is in his 11th year in politics.

I want to expand this debate beyond just arguments over what’s right or wrong with Imran. The reasons for our difference of opinion on Khan have more to do with ideology than facts. It could be any number or combination of the following :

  1. Lack of understanding that contitutionalism and rule of law are what make nations great, not individual dictators no matter how patriotic they are (and yes Musharraf is patriotic, just as bin Laden is patriotic about Islam, but both have flawed Machiavellian ideologies). Many western countries where we now live were similar to Pakistan in many respects just 200 yrs ago. In 1850, the whole of Europe had 40,000 undergrad students. Today, a single university has 20 to 30,000. What caused the meteoric rise of the West? Do you know? It was the constitutionalist movement stemming from the French revolution in 1789 and overpowering the forces of feudalism and monarchism in the whole of Europe. Imran Khan is the only significant political leader today in the whole of the muslim world who understands this KEY to the success of nations: RULE OF LAW.

  2. False pride (nationalism) that does not enable some Pakistanis to accept even constructive criticisms of the state. e.g. person saying above that Imran supports Bugti. Brother, Imran supports rule of law and thus would have wanted a fair trial for Bugti. Arrogant nationalism prevents some from being fair against those they label as enemy. This is what led to the devastating European wars in the 19th and 20th century, and the current American wars. Do not be followers of Fichte, read up on him, and understand that regard for justice must always be kept above our personal likes and dislikes.

  3. Lack of faith in the power of God - Allah. This I cannot make you understand, nor would you understand if you read a thousand books. Only if you humble yourself before God, ask for His guidance and do not take His words lightly then it is to be hoped that He will open your heart and you will see the world with new eyes. That not a leaf moves without His will. Imran has understood this, as Iqbal and Jinnah understood it, and he knows that if Allah helps you then none can overcome you. So, why should he settle for anything less than what he dreams for?

  4. Giving tactical issues a priority over strategic issues of the country. e.g. emphasizing GDP growth rates and ignoring that the country does not even have any foundations (institutions) to stand upon, and sustain its progress.

  5. Rationalism as opposed to Romanticism. Clinging to the earth so tightly you cannot learn to fly and see the big picture. Modern research in psychology has determined that, to make a correct decision, a person must equally rely on facts AND on intuition. If you rely solely on rationalism, or facts, then you will become a cynical person incapable of seeing the big picture and the opportunities of success that are there. When it comes to politics in Pakistan, many people after 60 yrs of being deceived, rationalize away even Imran’s determined effort as in vain and unworthy. They have lost hope and become eternal cynics as they only see as far as their eyes can, not their minds.

I have not mentioned the above 5 points to criticize any person, but to advise of false ideologies that lead men to believe they are right but realize, too late, that they weren’t. These are common mistakes amongst all nations, ending usually in great bloodshed or upheaval. I wish that my people will search within their souls and come to know their human shortcomings before its too late.

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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Sir... its not that I am denying the History.... Wat I am trying to say: Its not fair to say... All Military ppl are bad.... or All Politicians are bad... U will find good leaders in Military as well as Politicians.... So Say if Musharaf is military man.. but he is good for the State, wats the harm in it to leave him alone to work. Check out the Economic figures... not form some Govt. Institute.. but from open market... U will see the Diff between.. BB, Mian Gi and Mush..

Wat Ppl want... Primerly... PEACE... I am sure U will know lots of countries where rulers are KINGS... they are Superlative Degrees of Dictators... but still.. they are gworing.. ppl are in Peace. e.g Dubai.

So... Conclussion to wat I want to say is, Look at Ground Realities... kay Pakistan maiN kia Chalay ga... We should not just narrate the Book Values kay... Democracy is best.. and blah blah.... First Look.. at Ur Grounds then take the decision.

TO IMRAN KHAN...... I strongly Oppose him when he say... DEMOCRACY KAY BAGHAIR MULK TARAQI KAR HI NAHEN SAKTA...... if he look around he will see lots of examples kay... without democracy lots of nations progressed.

:)

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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

You are confused. Get it straight there is no alternative to democracy. Dictatorship is absolute power, corrupts absolutely. What economic progress are you talking about? Pakis are divided in to two distinct groups one so called elite who can have every thing in the world, the other poor, struggling for survival. Middle class has vanished. I think you do not live in Pakistan. Go there to see how is the status of poor people, gang rapes, lawlessness, at least one suicide per day due to un-employment, inflation etc. I can go on and on. If there is any economic progress, it should trickle down to bottom. I don't see it.

FARID

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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Why is it that every hardcore PPP jiyala here thinks that anyone here who supports Musharraf is dependent on Musharraf for 'survival'?

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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Sir Gi.... Forget abt all figures... coz... they might be wrong and enforeced figures from govt..... Just Look at the KSE 100 index... it was round 1500 in MiaN sahib Time... Now its.. Touching 11000 points.... Do U think Stock Exchange has nothing to do with the economy????

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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

SE is one of the indicators of economy but do you believe that this has any positive impact on daily life of common person in Pak? There are lots of scandals of SEs in the country particularly fraud played by higher-ups in 2005. I have no idea how in the hack you believe in these figures.

So called improvement is due to soft attitude of Uncle Sam and IMF for playing the drama of war against terror, major contribution of foreign exchange by Pakis in SA and USA (Total 70%). But due to lack of institutions, this would go in waste as in the past during dictatorship eras.

FARID

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Re: Imran’s Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Dubai is 1% the size of Pakistan. Driving a motorcycle is incomparable to driving a bus. Pakistan is a federation of many peoples and provinces, it cannot grow sustainably without democracy. Tell me is it common sense that one man can efficiently deal with issues of 160 million people? And for those whitewashed folks who think Pakistanis are too dumb to deserve democracy, they just need look at India.

If Pak develops proper democratic institutions, it will outdo every nation on earth including Dubai - whose contribution to civilization is nil.

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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Outside Pakistan, nobody in the Muslim world knows who Imran Khan is. Within Pakistan he can barely win a National Assembly seat, and that only when stood in elections under Musharraf whom he supported from the coup to the referendum and even until the general election. He only "turned" on Musharraf after the elections because he never got parachuted into the top slot like he wanted. Sorry, but for all your cult-like devotion of Imran that is the blunt truth, and everyone in Pakistan knows as such.

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Re: Imran’s Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Get your facts right, Imran turned on Musharraf 3-4 months BEFORE elections (as did I, after realizing Mush had started pre-poll rigging and siding with ghundas like Shujaat). Imran fought against Musharraf’s PML-Q goon Shadikhel in the Mianwali elections, how could he be getting help from Mushy lol. Imran won on strength of support from youth in Mianwali.

http://www.elections.com.pk/results2002detail.php?constId=71&st=51&toggle=3

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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

The fact is that Imran Khan supported Musharraf to the hilt in the Presidetial referendum in April 2002, and according to your admission he continued to support months after that (July). I presume he thought that "election" was free and fair? Dr Shahid Masood was making that very point (and other hypocrisies in Imran's stances) on Geo the other day.

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Re: Imran’s Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Musharraf fooled many like Imran and myself because of his seeming straightforwardness. People thought he was going to hold free and fair elections and bring genuine democracy to our beloved country, but instead he held the most rigged elections in Pak’s history. Not only was a new party created by ISI but every instrument of the state was used to make sure that PML-Q, a party that did not exist few months ago, won the elections.

Imran has admitted many times that this was his mistake. Humans don’t have perfect knowledge of the future or of character. Quaid was “Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim Unity”, then he did a “seeming” about-turn and built muslims a separate nation. Was that hypocrisy, or result of experience. Every unbiased person knows that whatever Imran is, he’s not a hypocrite and liar.

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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

Dr Shahid Masood on Geo is an unbiased person in my opinion, and he was pointing one hypocrisy after another the other day - like his support for Musharraf's referendum.

Take another example. Remember some 10 years ago or more Imran Khan leading his budding PTI members in a demo in London outside Nawaz Sharif's multi-million Park Lane apartments, which he accused him of acquiring through mass corruption?

Just two months (Dec 2006) Imran met Nawaz in that same apartment building or very close to them. I call that another examples of his hypocrisy, as well as clear lack of scruples.

take some photo->create some wallpaper
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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

The key question here would be "did Imran seek or gain ANY personal benefit whatsoever from helping Mush in Referendum?" He did not. A mistake was made in judgment of Mush's character! This mistake was made by many genuine people, including yours truly.

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Re: Imran’s Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

No, this is your lack of comprehension that some things, like democracy, are far more important than a couple of people like Nawaz and BB! Pak has no foundations (institutions) to stand upon right now because of Musharraf. All the so-called progress will come to nought, and tomorrow you can have another Bangladesh as well. And you want Imran to turn a blind eye from these critical strategic poblems? Pak’s unity and foundations are more important than “don’t touch Nawaz”. We can possibly beat Nawaz in an election but we can NEVER beat Mush with 500,000 armed men holding Parliament hostage.

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Re: Imran's Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

You are unable to answer any of my questions with logical replies.

Imran Khan was against Musharraf's "pre-poll rigging" in Oct 2002, but somehow thought that the Presidnetial Referendum was ok.

A decade ago Imran Khan was leading a demo against Nawaz Sharif's multi-million apartments in London, and now he is ok to meet him in that same place.

You don't build alliances with looters and pluderers, those who attacked the Supreme court, silenced parliamentarians and victmized political opponents etc in your pursuit of promoting democracy in Pakistan.

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Re: Imran’s Tehreek-e-Insaf launches newsletter

I have made my points, and I will end by saying that there are more loteras in Mush’s govt than any I have seen in past 19 yrs. He has even outdone Mr. 10% Zardari. Killers like Altaf Hussein are his allies for pete’s sake. Our objective is to bring independent institutions to the country, we don’t care about personalities. Whoever stands in the way of our core objective is our enemy and whoever can help us in this is our ally.

Tehreek-e-Insaf.