Imran, on one hand, dissociates himself from terrorism and says that he wants to negotiate only because we are incompetent and incapable of defeating them or their ideolgy; but on the other hand he associates himself with them by visiting their terrorist headquarters and attending their rallies.
This shows that his argument for negotiations is a mere hogwash. He calls for negotiations because he wants Taliban to succeed as he considers them his people. It is not because we are incapable of defeating them.
For what it's worth Imran Khan is live right now in GEO TV's program** Lekin**. ;) And talking in detail about his views on engagement with the terrorists.
Please do share his excuse for visiting terrorist madressahs like Haqqania or attending rallies of Sipahe Sahaba.
I do wish this question was asked, as lot of specific ones were. Regardless, I only tuned in when half the program was gone, so will have to watch it on YouTube once it shows up there. In reality though, there is no point in attending rallies of Sipahe Sahaba and friends. No logic in there.
Further, in April, 2011 Khan personally visited the Darul-Uloom Haqqania to seek support for his anti-drone dharnas – the campaign many see as a watershed in his rise. Popularly known as “the University of Jihad,” the Dar-ul-Uloom is accused by the Federal Investigation Agency of being the launching pad for former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto’s assassination. It has schooled the Taliban’s top leadership, including the Afghan warlord Jalaluddin Haqqani, who derives his name from his proud affiliation with his alma mater. And Khan’s “engagement” there? Extolling the virtues jihad as a mandatory obligation – the very ideology the would-be jihadis are indoctrinated with.
There are many who agree with him about negotiating with terrorists because of our incompetence in defeating them. I would like to ask their opinion about the above piece.
Why did he visit them and endorsed their extremist ideology?
Obviously, asking for negotiations merely is an excuse to hide his real opinion of Talibanic neo-kharijites.
^ How has the DPC has been formed (including banned parties) and doing jalsas all over the country with impunity? IK has nothing to do with that part at least.
And in his Karachi jalsa, IK strangely did not criticise or even mention your favourite terrorists, the MQM.
How funny you never mention that, while blaming everybody else.
The reason I talked of PPP government's incompetence was when one of our friends asked why Difae Pakistan terrorists are allowed to hold rallies in the first place. I replied that it is PPP's government that allows them to hold such rallies.
If you have a better answer to this question then you are most welcome to give it. But you have no right to mock me and get personal with me.
Add to that participating in rallies against ahmedies and PTI affiliated lawyers arguing for boycott of ahmadi products, and saying Taliban ideology is not something Pakistan should be concerned with and saying Pakistani Taliban are just fighting an invader (i.e. Pakistani people, civilians, minorities, state). See my previous reply to Amal if you wish for more debunking of the ridiculous notion that this is some sort of strategy that Imran is trying to stop the terorrists. He isnt trying to stop the terrorists, hes aligned with them.
Oh and once again, I hate the appearance of ‘logic’ behind the idea that oh since fighting them isnt working we shouldnt think of them as worth fighting or we should join them. This is the same logic that would have all welfare programs ended because theres still poverty, would have all government hospitals closed because the quality of service isnt good.
Most of all you lot have this notion that a prerequisite to ‘talking’ to Taliban is that we have to talk like them. We have to defend their ideology and we have to make excuses for the tens of thousands of murders they have committed. It is common knowledge that the state already HAS got its pet taliban that dont fight it and do their activities elsewhere. What concessions do you think werent offered to these terrorists that were granted to the ‘good’ Haqqani et al? As abhorrent as that strategy is for me, it atleast doesnt involve the Pakistani state justifying and defending the crimes of these terrorists. Take it from one of the targeted groups, even that figleaf is palatable compared to Imran’s hardon for the heroic holy murderers.
Add to that participating in rallies against ahmedies and PTI affiliated lawyers arguing for boycott of ahmadi products...
How many times will you bringin up "ahmedies and PTI affiliated lawyers" point in this thread? You are confusing two different things and want to have a discssion on both of them in one thread. If you have some specific concerns regarding "ahmedies and PTI affiliated lawyers", you should start a different discussion on it. We are all concerned for every single religious and ethnic entitity in this country and speak for their right to have full freedom and safety as anyone else in this country has.
Coming back to the point of "Imran's engagement with the terrorists", I would suggest you watch today's Lekin to find answers to your questions.
The reason I talked of PPP government's incompetence was when one of our friends asked why Difae Pakistan terrorists are allowed to hold rallies in the first place. I replied that it is PPP's government that allows them to hold such rallies.
If you have a better answer to this question then you are most welcome to give it. But you have no right to mock me and get personal with me.
I am not mocking you.
You have to realise if you make public statements supporting known terrorist groups like the MQM, you cannot point your finger at others and scream 'terrorist supporter'.
You have to realise is you make public statements supporting known terrorist groups like the MQM, you cannot point your finger at others and scream 'terrorist supporter'.
That is called hypocrisy.
It's not that only killing someone is terrorism, corruption is also a form of terrorism as innumerable people are forced to starve to death. You first need to fix your tunnel vision to see what's happening in the name of shaheed and democracy.
How many times will you bringin up "ahmedies and PTI affiliated lawyers" point in this thread? You are confusing two different things and want to have a discssion on both of them in one thread. If you have some specific concerns regarding "ahmedies and PTI affiliated lawyers", you should start a different discussion on it. We are all concerned for every single religious and ethnic entitity in this country and speak for their right to have full freedom and safety as anyone else in this country has.
This is just desperate. I didnt bring up ahmedies and PTI affiliated lawyers. The article lists these amongst the litany of Imran Khan panderings to the mulla class. And it isnt out of nowhere. There is a strong link between the people you think Imran Khan is 'talking' to, and the victimization of Ahmedies. Not for nothing did Taliban attack Ahmadi places. Similarly SSP specifically has a minority attacking focus. These are all relevant to Imran's 'talking' (or talking like) terrorists strategy.
[quote]
Coming back to the point of "Imran's engagement with the terrorists", I would suggest you watch today's Lekin to find answers to your questions.
[/QUOTE]
Far be it for me to tell you how to run a discussion site, but this isnt how things are done. You dont tell people to go watch a video of a programme. If any particular video is germane to the discussion you write the relevant points made, and relate them to the discussion so far.
People who spend their time making reasoned out arguments find it extremely disappointing to have it misdirected onto some video.
It's not that only killing someone is terrorism, corruption is also a form of terrorism as innumerable people are forced to starve to death. You first need to fix your tunnel vision to see what's happening in the name of shaheed and democracy.
How many times will you try to score cheap points?
Anyways, if that is your argument, I have never seen you critcise past govts involved in even bigger corruption.
You have to realise if you make public statements supporting known terrorist groups like the MQM, you cannot point your finger at others and scream 'terrorist supporter'.
That is called hypocrisy.
He did travel to london to make a case. He stated on Hamid Mir's program once that no evidence was stickable against altaf hussain, hence the cases were going no where.
Isn't this the defense of PPP that zardari was "innocent" and none of the "evidence"? This is in spite of the fact that BB "shaheed" actually was filing appeals against convictions of corruption in Swiss courts (no takht-e-lahore or establishment there) when she made NRO with a "DICTATOR", but allah had other plans for her.
You have to realise if you make public statements supporting known terrorist groups like the MQM, you cannot point your finger at others and scream 'terrorist supporter'.
That is called hypocrisy.
Again, calling me hypocrite is being personal. If I start justifying what I say and what I don't say then it will take me away from the discussion topic. So if you want to attack my personality and call me 'hypocrite' then do it when I talk about MQM and justify its terrorism, or I can call you a hypocrite when you support Mirza's terrorists in Lyari.
Now learn to talk like a man and follow the topic of the thread, instead of jumping off tangents like a child. I don't have time to respond to everything. And I would rather stick to the topic.
If you continue discussing me instead of discussing the topic, and if you call me any name, including calling me a hypocrite, then I am going to report you to mods.
Far be it for me to tell you how to run a discussion site, but this isnt how things are done.
You can definitely tell me how to run a discussion site. Since I am not a Bhutto, so there are all the possibilities under the sun that I may go wrong at times. This attitude that you cannot tell someone how to do something, should stay within the party, I am a human being, not a Bhutto. So you can always differ with me, and even teach me. This is obviously something that you can't do inside your party. I appreciate your problem.
And I referred you to watch the video because I wanted you to have a direct answer from the man you are criticising. What's wrong with that?
You can definitely tell me how to run a discussion site. Since I am not a Bhutto, so there are all the possibilities under the sun that I may go wrong at times. This attitude that you cannot tell someone how to do something, should stay within the party, I am a human being, not a Bhutto. So you can always differ with me, and even teach me.
Great!
[quote]
This is obviously something that you can't do inside your party. I appreciate your problem.
[/quote]
Not so great. PPP has never been 'my' party. And I actually dislike Bhutto (pan-Islamism, charismatic saviour mentality, 71).
[quote]
And I referred you to watch the video because I wanted you to have a direct answer from the man you are criticising. What's wrong with that?
[/QUOTE]
I already told you. This is a political discussion forum, the purpose being to debate and discuss ideas. Ideally you shouldnt assume that people need to watch recorded Pakistani tv. Even if any particular video is relevant, if you are posting from it you are expected to do people you're arguing with the courtesy of identifying:
a) The clip
b) The specific time period within the clip relevant to the discussion
c) The particular points to which b) is of relevance, and how anything Imran has said in that clip addresses or negates anything they may have said.
This has the effect of advancing the discussion and linking it to the 40 odd posts before now. Much more beneficial than encouraging people to just post videos of their favoured sides talking/arguing.
Regardless, I only tuned in when half the program was gone, so will have to watch it on YouTube once it shows up there. In reality though, there is no point in attending rallies of Sipahe Sahaba and friends. No logic in there.