Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
Imran Khan's logic is completely flawed. He is perpetuating the myth that the tribals can not be defeated because they were not by the British. The tribals have been and still can be defeated militarily. The British were more interested in using them as a buffer in their great game against Russia and that is what they did.
It's not just the British who were defeated there but anyone who has ever ventured there incl. the Afghans and Sikhs.
Now coming to that article by Rasul Bakhsh Rais, how can he ignore the fact that Taliban was Benazir's very own creation and her saying now "It was a mistake" is simply not good enough? It shows that she lacked political foresightedness at the time and she is now only speaking out against these people because she wants to be seen as a 'moderate' and wants to grab power thru the back door. She is just using the West and the Pakistani establishment for her own political gain. So she is as guilty of political opportunism in my view as the other parties incl PML-N and MQM (I know they don't support religious extremism but they have surprisingly not said a word on what's going on in Swat) who have not openly condemned the unspeakable atrocities being committed by Mullah and his militants in Swat.
And coming to these qabailies they have always been jaahil and unruly people. They have always held very rigid religious beliefs and adhered to stone-age culture. But atleast before we had gone in they were minding their own business. Believe you me Al-Qaeda or no Al-Qaeda in that area, these people would have retaliated in the same abhorrent way as they are now if we had gone in there any time before 9/11. These qabailies have always been fiercely independent and accept intervention by no foreign forces incl. Pakistan. Not trying to justify their crimes but the fact of the matter is these people see the very presence of our forces there as a blatant attack on their freedom and independence and hence we are seeing the unspeakably cruel acts in Swat and the worry is it may spread to other parts of Pakistan. By fighting this proxy war, by continuing military operation in that region we are in danger of alienating not only 1 million qabailies but also many of our own pathans who have strong cultural and religious ties with that region and who have more in common with the qabailies than the rest of Pakistan.
As I said before in the short-term we have to capture Mullah Fazlullah and his henchmen but in the long-term we have to give these qabailies full liberty. Let them do whatever they want to do in their own territory.
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
so can one battalion of pak army defeat an other battalion of army ??
**What imran khan is crying about is "those people are our extended army, with out pay"
he also said "1500 km border is safe because of them"
and he said"they took kashmir back from india in 1948"
he said "they are patriots more then us"
**
Imran loves to bamboozle his two bit lies. Our 1500 km border through FATA PATA is the source of all the drug smuggling, illegal weapons, Stolen cars with no custom paid etc etc.
If you call this protection, I wish every country in the world gets it.
You know I thought he was unique, he stood for justice or Insaf. This interview and other statements simply shows that he is trying to be the Pashtooni copy of Altaf.
He say 12 may's Urdu Speaking crimes were bad, but he still supports mutilation of our soldiers.
I have not seen even Wali Khan group go this extreme.
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
He also says this is not an idealogical battle, which clearly means that for him there is nothing wrong with random beheadings and suicide bombings. He wants to extend this jahil thinking to all of Pakistan.
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
He say 12 may's Urdu Speaking crimes were bad, but he still supports mutilation of our soldiers.
antiobl don't accuse Imran of things that he has n't said. I have n't seen any such statement from him. If you are taking his silence to mean indirect support for mullah-led carnage in Swat, I dare suggest all parties incl. PML-N and MQM are quilty of that. And BB is only speaking out now for the reasons that I mentioned above.
How do you guys forget that Imran's mother was from that area and these qabailies have always welcomed him and given him the greatest respect in the past. There was a 10-page pull-out in The Guardian in 1992 celebrating his triumphant return to his tribal roots after the World Cup glory. And these qabailies accorded him the greatest welcome befitting a head of state (21 gun salute and all) and showered him with so much warmth and affection. He even wrote a book on them 'The Pathan Warrior'. So even if in his heart and mind he is against the unspeakably cruel acts (as any sane person would be) it's not as easy for him to criticise these people in public as it might be for someone who has no roots in that region and also given that he believes (rightly or wrongly, that is always debatable) that the mess we are seeing now is our own creation. We simply should not have gone in there knowing the history of that region.
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
MQM has always spoken against barbaric acts of jihadis. They are not silent or like Imran fully supportive of terrorists. Do we have to operate on his heart to find out if he supports the terrorists or not or should we listen to this public words which are full of lies and half truths?
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
He also says this is not an idealogical battle, which clearly means that for him there is nothing wrong with random beheadings and suicide bombings. He wants to extend this jahil thinking to all of Pakistan.
But these qabailies (even many of our own pathans) would have acted in the same abhorrent way had we gone in there anytime before 9/11. Yes they are very vengeful people, yes they are very jaahil and unruly but believe you me we won't be seeing these suicidal bombings, beheadings etc. if we had left them to mind their own business.
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
But these qabailies (even many of our own pathans) would have acted in the same abhorrent way had we gone in there anytime before 9/11. Yes they are very vengeful people, yes they are very jaahil and unruly but believe you me we won't be seeing these suicidal bombings, beheadings etc. if we had left them to mind their own business.
That's the point, 9/11 and war on terror are not the cause of this wave of terrorism. That itself is the symptom of rise in extremism, jihadis, and taliban in afghanistan and pakistan. We had to take them at some point or another as they gained more and more power for their brand of fascist rule.
And they refused to mind their business after 9/11 and sent and continue to send fighters to Afghanistan. NATO/US option to Pakistan was clear: you either police your own area or if you are unable to, we will do it for you.
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
^ Then I say good luck to US/NATO. It's not as easy as they might think.They should not forget that with all their military might they are still struggling to maintain law and order in Iraq and Afghanistan and FATA is an equally rough terrain. Why should we fight this proxy war? Let the US army go in there and face the music, let them deal with 1 million people who all know how to operate guns and arms. And as we are seeing in Afghanistan, it's very easy to bomb from above but not so easy when you have to fight with these people on the ground, something they will HAVE to do if they want to capture all suspected Al-Qaeda men. Why should our army be suffering casualties on their behalf? Why should we be seeing suicide bombings and beheadings on our side (not that they would complete abate if the Americans ever went in)
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
They will not go on the ground or in very limited numbers, only from the air. It will be bigger tragedy for the people of the area. I am not against the idea of letting FATA go, but what about Swat and other areas where the terrorists are encroaching?
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
Imran Khan's logic is completely flawed. He is perpetuating the myth that the tribals can not be defeated because they were not by the British. The tribals have been and still can be defeated militarily. The British were more interested in using them as a buffer in their great game against Russia and that is what they did. How can they be considered patriotic Pakistani when they consider themselves a separate country, don't follow Pakistani law and act against Pakistani national security interests? Protecting Al-Qaida and waging war against US and Nato forces in Afghanistan are acts against Pakistani national security as they put entire Pakistan under risk of attack by US and NATO forces.
He gives example of tribals fighting in Kashmir in 1947 but lets not forget that endeavor was failure primarily because tribals were more interested in looting, killing and raping than actually fighting the war and winning it. They were initially successful in invading Kashmir valley but as soon as Indian troops arrived to fight them the entire Lashkar disappeared overnight and ran away hiding their tales. The reason Pakistan did not use their regular army at the time was because of political reasons. They wanted the invasion to look like local uprising than invasion by a foreign force.
His reasons for suicide bombing are also wrong. The motivation of suiciders are religious not economic or social. For them, it is a short cut to heaven and any innocent people that they murder are also sent to heaven. In their twisted logic they are doing a favor to the people they are killing.
Notice how he did not condemn any bombing and murder by the terrorists in Swat, Lal Masjid or tribal area. He does not criticize the Balochistan operation and the only terrorists in the country in his eyes are MQM. I say that is very myopic for someone wanting to represent all of Pakistan. He kept parroting the bad American and bad American agent line. Does he not realize the problem is internal to Pakistan with the Islamists forcing the agenda on the rest of the population through violence?
The only thing I agree with him is the general and gradual decline in rule of Law, governance and lack of Justice in Pakistan. However, I disagree with him that the solution is to allow violent groups a free hand and appeasement. The solution is to enforce writ of government and rule of law over all areas in Pakistan .
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
It's not just the British who were defeated there but anyone who has ever ventured there incl. the Afghans and Sikhs.
Now coming to that article by Rasul Bakhsh Rais, how can he ignore the fact that Taliban was Benazir's very own creation and her saying now
I am not defending Benazir here but the Taliban when they were created in 1993 were not extremists.
But the goal of the Taliban was to end the civil war in Pakistan, protect trade convoys of Pakistan and Central Asian states, end the refugee crisis, and end the opium growth that was effecting Pakistanis.
The Taliban only became extremists after 1996 when they took over Kabul and the Arab terrorists like Osama and Zawahiri set up their operations there and started preaching extreme hate.
So you cannot say that we created the Taliban knowing how intolerant and extremist these people are.
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
^ Then I say good luck to US/NATO. It's not as easy as they might think.They should not forget that with all their military might they are still struggling to maintain law and order in Iraq and Afghanistan and FATA is an equally rough terrain. Why should we fight this proxy war? Let the US army go in there and face the music, let them deal with 1 million people who all know how to operate guns and arms. And as we are seeing in Afghanistan, it's very easy to bomb from above but not so easy when you have to fight with these people on the ground, something they will HAVE to do if they want to capture all suspected Al-Qaeda men. Why should our army be suffering casualties on their behalf? Why should we be seeing suicide bombings and beheadings on our side (not that they would complete abate if the Americans ever went in)
Thats because this area belongs to Pakistan.
And when some region in your own country does not obey the law of the land, we have to pacify it by force.
These tribals have been totally brainwashed by the Arab jihadists and have turned against Pakistan.
When you turn against your country, its called Mutiny.
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
Thats because this area belongs to Pakistan.
And when some region in your own country does not obey the law of the land, we have to pacify it by force.
These tribals have been totally brainwashed by the Arab jihadists and have turned against Pakistan.
When you turn against your country, its called Mutiny.
Punishable by death.
I am glad you are in favour of supremacy of law and would like to see a mutiny punishable by death...
I hope you also consider susequent military takeovers also mutinies including Musharaf and will advocate this crime to be punishable by death....If supremacy of law is established everybody will get what they deserve...
All these situations are directly created by American CIA and Pakistan agencies who are long term partners to get hundreds of billions of dollars of funds without audit...in the name of war against terror....if there is no problem there will be no war....no war no money!!!!
All this drama is getting paced up in preparation for American elections scheduled for next year....The real intention is not to solve the problem but to pace it up...
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
^ Then I say good luck to US/NATO. It's not as easy as they might think.They should not forget that with all their military might they are still struggling to maintain law and order in Iraq and Afghanistan and FATA is an equally rough terrain. Why should we fight this proxy war? Let the US army go in there and face the music, let them deal with 1 million people who all know how to operate guns and arms. And as we are seeing in Afghanistan, it's very easy to bomb from above but not so easy when you have to fight with these people on the ground, something they will HAVE to do if they want to capture all suspected Al-Qaeda men. Why should our army be suffering casualties on their behalf? Why should we be seeing suicide bombings and beheadings on our side (not that they would complete abate if the Americans ever went in)
It may be a better option for the US and Pak to work together... Attack the terorist from both sides, force them to fight two seperate enemies at once.
If the US and NATO have to be involved, it should be in a coordinated effort with the PAK Army..
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
It may be a better option for the US and Pak to work together... Attack the terorist from both sides, force them to fight two seperate enemies at once.
If the US and NATO have to be involved, it should be in a coordinated effort with the PAK Army..
Dear the problem is that US and NATO are not willing to be involved, not that much.
Even in Afghanistan they are negotiating with Taliban.
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
Imran Khan is living in fool's paradise.
These tribals are harboring foreign Arab terrorists who are planning global terrorism.
If we don't go after them, then all terrorism will emanate from Pakistan.
Does he really want a large part of Pakistan to be a free zone for global terrorists?
Imran Khan has lost all my respect
Yes it's very easy to come to that 'obvious' conclusion if you don't look at the whole picture (read my post 44). I bet none of us whose parents came from that area would even think about speaking out against these people atleast in public and esp. after the way you have been treated by these people in the past.
And the kind of vengeful people we are dealing with here. These people don't think like you and I. Most of them have had no formal education. All they learn from a very young age is how to use guns etc. Revenge is in their blood. These people remember enmity and animosity for centuries. There is a famous saying about pathans in general and qabailies in particular that if you kill their daughter, the whole family will wait until your daughter grows to be her age and then they will kill her! Got it!
And how do you propose we capture the alleged 2-3,000 Al-Qaeda terrorists. Sporadic shelling and bombing will not ever achieve anything apart from killing a few militants (as well as civilians) at a time. Capturing every single terrorist would require a full scale land invasion. Are we as a nation prepared to take that risk? Is our 0.5 million army prepared to take on an 'army' of 1 million people all of whom know how to operate guns and arms. I bet some of our soldiers are shi*ting in their pants after seeing their fellow soldiers beheaded in such brutal fashion by these terrorists. Does our army have the heart for this battle? And I won't be surprised if some of these suicide attacks (esp. the ones in Rawal Pindi and Sargodha recently) were 'revenge' attacks carried out by relatives of some of these soldiers who were beheaded by these militants. So where are we all heading with this ill-advised confrontation? And when will this all end? I see no imminent end to this mess.
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
these kinds of moronic statement is par for the course for imran khan. these tribals insurgents actually face considerable degree of opposition in the tribal areas which is why they have resorted to suicide bombings. if insurgents had mass support, they would not be afraid to fight face to face as was the case in war against the russians. suicide bombings cause collateral damage which endangers and thereby alienates local population. incidently imran khan never talks about collateral damage caused by suicide bombers which clearly indicates his support for these jaanwers. any civilised and self respecting society would have thrown imran khan in jail for hate speech.
also to remind people, anp won the bajaur by-election after missle attack on an insurgent base. the result of the election clearly indicates that insurgents dont have mass support. moreover, insurgents have killed hundreds of pro-government tribal leaders for obvious reasons. if government does not protect people who oppose the insurgents, we might as well give independence to tribal areas although even that wont solve the problems because insurgents will move into pak where they will again target people who oppose them and their agenda.
pakistani media supports jehadis which is why it exaggerates the support enjoyed by tribal jehadis. government will succeed if it strengthens its resolve and sees the problem through. there will be blow back but this battle against jehadis had to be fought. putting our head in the sand is a strategy of losers. unfortunately thats always the strategy our people have always adapted which is why pakistan is where it is.
Re: Imran Khan with Javed Malik on Swat and Tribal Areas
any civilised and self respecting society would have thrown imran khan in jail for hate speech.
Any civilised society (esp. US) would have also tried Musharraf for treason and probably hanged him. Regardless of how bad or corrupt Nawaz (I don't support him) was, he WAS THE elected PM - period
And just reading some of the comments of guppies here, I just come to this sad conclusion that you guys just don't know or understand the history of this region/these people. You are just blinded by your hatred of extremists and militant. Yes we are all against religious extremism but noone is looking at the wider picture or the long-term consequences of confronting these dangerous people. Now every police officer (even the ones guarding big mosques on Fridays), traffic warden and soldier in the land is a target for these extremists. You may just be walking by a police officer and the next thing you know you are blown up into pieces. You may be going for your juma prayers and the next thing you know you are not there. Is that what we want?