IK justifies these killers of innocent people as a product of drone attacks.. I have never seen him unconditionally condemning these killers without ifs and buts. Any justification of what-so-ever nature for these killers is totally unacceptable.. period. Nobody who-so-ever (Including Mr. Khan) should justify these killers and for us we should not accept these justification for what-so-ever reasons. Any one who does not condemn these killers without ifs and buts should not be tolerated.. any anyone who justifies these killers should not be heard..
Having said that.. I am going to vote for IK because of the reasons Ali very rightly has pointed out in the OP. I'll continue to criticize him for what ever I don't feel is right. I understand there is no perfect scenario.. but I try not to follow anyone blindly and in totality. I try to avoid judging people.. I rather analyze individual acts and form my opinion accordingly. Although personally I don't like mafia don style leadership of Altaf Hussain but I appreciate his bold stance against the terrorist killers.. I appreciate some of the work MQM has done to uplift Karachi.. particularly Mustafa Kamal's performance as a mayor was impressive.
I still feel PTI is the best option available for my vote because PTI in true sense is a national party with supporters from every region of Pakistan. National harmony is the most needed commodity in our fragmented country where PPP has a perception in Punjab as anti-Punjab while PML N is considered anti-Sind by most of the Sindhis. Moreover people from every status can relate with PTI while PPP is considered anti-business amongst business circles while PML N is considered anti-poor by the masses.
Agree with that. I think IK needs to talk more openly about the radical elements of the society.
So I should start a political party.. At least I have one confirmed supporter.. and I am sure if I post two 2/3 more posts against IK I'll win the support of Anwer Pasha saheb also..!!!
Yes you have a vote:D: You are one infew of who support IK and crtisise when he act like a fool without using IF and BUTS. IK better put you up in his advisory team:) he need to learn a lot.
Yes you have a vote:D: You are one infew of who support IK and crtisise when he act like a fool without using IF and BUTS. IK better put you up in his advisory team:) he need to learn a lot.
I am sure he will be unable to tolerate my views and I will be unable to tolerate his arrogant attitude. So the idea of forming my own political party seems more doable than giving consultation to IK. I am waiting for the support of AP saheb to give it a serious thought. We will start this political party on this forum only..!!!!
IK justifies these killers of innocent people as a product of drone attacks.. I have never seen him unconditionally condemning these killers without ifs and buts. Any justification of what-so-ever nature for these killers is totally unacceptable.. period.
Peace yazdi
No ... IK does not justify the killing done by the Taliban ... and in the same vein there is no justification for the drone strikes ... It's all about who should stop ... Stop the drones, that is in our "regimes" control ... them stopping their afflictions is in their control. In order to get calm we have to bear the white flags first. You should know this !!!
Let me reiterate there is no justification being put out for the blundering attacks undertaken by the Taliban by IK ... but are we going to expect them the phantom known as 'Taliban' to apply reason? To have such an expectation is foolish. We know that attacking them has not helped the situation - so IK is only calling for a change in strategy.
US has constantly applied force to deal with its issues seems as though Pakistan has followed suit ... People in America, the likes of Chomsky and others argue that they are only earning more hatred for themselves - the same will be the case regarding Taliban and the Pakistani government.
If you are in favour of a take over then do that ... but do so with a military campaign - foot soldiers and do not kill women and children and let men run away and hide. De-arm the militants and raid the caves and forests ... Drones are quite destructive to everyone ... innocents and all mentally drained by the hum and places destroyed by the bombs. And worse still the phantom is not rooted out and it remains there to brew ... Drone srikes are effective at a controlled long drawn out killing ... this means the 'Taliban' have time to recoup, get supplies and continue the skirmishes and suicide bombings to retaliate ...
No ... IK does not justify the killing done by the Taliban ... and in the same vein there is no justification for the drone strikes ... It's all about who should stop ... Stop the drones, that is in our "regimes" control ... them stopping their afflictions is in their control. In order to get calm we have to bear the white flags first. You should know this !!!
Let me reiterate there is no justification being put out for the blundering attacks undertaken by the Taliban by IK ... but are we going to expect them the phantom known as 'Taliban' to apply reason? To have such an expectation is foolish. We know that attacking them has not helped the situation - so IK is only calling for a change in strategy.
US has constantly applied force to deal with its issues seems as though Pakistan has followed suit ... People in America, the likes of Chomsky and others argue that they are only earning more hatred for themselves - the same will be the case regarding Taliban and the Pakistani government.
If you are in favour of a take over then do that ... but do so with a military campaign - foot soldiers and do not kill women and children and let men run away and hide. De-arm the militants and raid the caves and forests ... Drones are quite destructive to everyone ... innocents and all mentally drained by the hum and places destroyed by the bombs. And worse still the phantom is not rooted out and it remains there to brew ... Drone srikes are effective at a controlled long drawn out killing ... this means the 'Taliban' have time to recoup, get supplies and continue the skirmishes and suicide bombings to retaliate ...
Peace Brother Psyah,
I am presently in Pakistan and can not give you the exact youtube (youtube is still banned in Pakistan) link from his Peshawar jalsa where he justified the suicide bombers as a result of drone attacks. During a TV talk show from that time he even said that if his family was hurt in a drone attack he would himself become a suicide bomber. Just do some googling and I am sure you will find these links.. for me that is a clear stance of justifying suicide bombers who kill innocent people.. Just imagine if a young naive aspiring suicide bomber who sees Imran Khan as a role model listens to such talk..
And please don't take me wrong. I have never justified innocent killings by drones. I have over the years advocated that our own forces should seriously do operation in lawless areas to clean this filth from our territories. A Swat like operation is the best option for us in North Waziristan.. Otherwise we are sitting on a time bomb and waiting for some major strike by these terrorist in some other country which will expose our innocent citizens to more indiscriminate strikes..
I am presently in Pakistan and can not give you the exact youtube (youtube is still banned in Pakistan) link from his Peshawar jalsa where he justified the suicide bombers as a result of drone attacks. During a TV talk show from that time he even said that if his family was hurt in a drone attack he would himself become a suicide bomber. Just do some googling and I am sure you will find these links.. for me that is a clear stance of justifying suicide bombers who kill innocent people.. Just imagine if **a young naive aspiring suicide bomber **who sees Imran Khan as a role model listens to such talk..
And please don't take me wrong. I have never justified innocent killings by drones. I have over the years advocated that our own forces should seriously do operation in lawless areas to clean this filth from our territories. A Swat like operation is the best option for us in North Waziristan.. Otherwise we are sitting on a time bomb and waiting for some major strike by these terrorist in some other country which will expose our innocent citizens to more indiscriminate strikes..
If we focus on what he is really saying ... and that is if people are driven to a state of near insanity then they will do insane acts ... He is not justifying the wrong ... he is merely explaining how evil breeds more evil.
When he says that "he too will want to become a suicide bomber" he means that in the sense it will be outside his sense of control and sanity. 9 out of 10 people will become like that ... Some will not - those people are extraordinary people who can take calamity in their stride and continue to have patience in Allah (SWT) ...
You ask me to consider how a "young naive aspiring suicide bomber ..." - of course he will be encouraged as he already has those tendencies ... but now you consider "a young, naive, absolutely normal child who has Imran Khan as his hero" will he take his words and become the type of child you mention? No ... he won't ... in order to manifest into a person who causes injustices willingly he will not just choose to become **that person ... his cirsumstances will have to change for him to become likely to loose his sanity enough to become like that ... **Remember suicide bombers on the whole are not ideological ... they are people in despair and want to die - but they often do so causing a wake of destruction for the rage that is within them ... The despair they feel can be curtailed - and it's in the hands of the regime to ensure that happens ...
If we focus on what he is really saying ... and that is if people are driven to a state of near insanity then they will do insane acts ... He is not justifying the wrong ... he is merely explaining how evil breeds more evil.
When he says that "he too will want to become a suicide bomber" he means that in the sense it will be outside his sense of control and sanity. 9 out of 10 people will become like that ... Some will not - those people are extraordinary people who can take calamity in their stride and continue to have patience in Allah (SWT) ...
You ask me to consider how a "young naive aspiring suicide bomber ..." - of course he will be encouraged as he already has those tendencies ... but now you consider "a young, naive, absolutely normal child who has Imran Khan as his hero" will he take his words and become the type of child you mention? No ... he won't ... in order to manifest into a person who causes injustices willingly he will not just choose to become **that person ... his cirsumstances will have to change for him to become likely to loose his sanity enough to become like that ... **Remember suicide bombers ont he whole are not ideological ... they are people in despair and want to die - but they often do so causing a wake of destruction for the rage that is within them ... The despair they feel can be curtailed - and it's in the hands of the regime to ensure that happens ...
No one should be allowed to talk like that. Is it necessary that he tells an aspiring young suicide bomber that you are justified because of another evil (in this case drone attacks).. and I would have myself done the same. Isn't it the duty of a leader who has a role model status for a lot of youngsters to identify both evils separately and distinctively and call both evils as evils without relating them..
Psyah brother, you really surprise me sometime with your irrational posts..
I am very clear on this matter.. no justification what-so-ever is acceptable for killing innocent people. I am not even ready to listen to all this talk about relating attacks on innocent people with drone attacks. A person who attacks Malala or any other innocent citizen has to be condemned.. period.
Its astonishing how media and politicians are so anti-PTI/IK. Every word he utters, every step he takes is ridiculed and criticised like he is the root cause of all problems existing in Pakistan :D
People who love IK, do so with passion and wholeheartedness.
People who hate IK, do so with extreme cynicism and vilification.
Lagta hai eletion mayn sirf 2 types of votes honay hayn (Pro PTI and anti PTI)
No one should be allowed to talk like that. Is it necessary that he tells an **aspiring young suicide bomber that you are justified because **of another evil (in this case drone attacks).. and I would have myself done the same. Isn't it the duty of a leader who has a role model status for a lot of youngsters to identify both evils separately and distinctively and call both evils as evils without relating them..
Psyah brother, you really surprise me sometime with your irrational posts..
I am very clear on this matter.. no justification what-so-ever is acceptable for killing innocent people. I am not even ready to listen to all this talk about relating attacks on innocent people with drone attacks. A person who attacks Malala or any other innocent citizen has to be condemned.. period.
Peace yazdi
Again you are playing this game of calling out "justification" - it is not justification .... please read carefully NOT JUSTIFICATION ... it is a prediction of what will happen. And I am not talking about *aspiring young suicide bombers *... they are a different kettle of fish ... they have been misinformed and require a different approach. I am talking about hopelessness and despair, irrational responses to their families being killed.
We cannot bomb a people and drive them crazy with the hum of drones and expect them to listen to reason ... especially not the sort of people who are not known for being pressurised ... they need to be persuaded. Our decisions are in our hands theirs is in their hands ... Our actions are failing us - on many levels - there is no justification for drone strikes and no justification for suicide attacks - the former is being undertaken by "intelligent, learned authorities who are in no danger themselves" the latter is being undertaken by "uneducated, zero authority people who are in constant threat for their own lives and the lives of their families" - If I want to talk reason - I will talk to those who are in a position to be reasoned with ... But it appears there is no reasoning with either party Taliban or their opponents -
You all have bloodlust ...
Regarding the attack on Malala - totally agree - Condemned and taken to account might I add ... This should have been the straw that broke the camels back and forced the Pak Army to walk in to the territory - but they didn't do it ... They instead allowed the fury of drones to continue and increase ... We need to take control of our affairs ourselves - Let the US spend their cash elsewhere.
All I am talking about it CAUSE and EFFECT - This is totally rational. It would be wrong for us to conclude that an effect should not happen despite the causes of it happening continue to happen.
Minister for Foreign Affairs Hina Rabbani Khar has said drone strikes are counterproductive in the war against terrorism. In an interview on Friday on the sidelines of the second day of Non Alignment Movement Summit‚ she said Pakistan has a clear stance on the drone attacks. These‚ she said‚ are not helpful in fighting the menace of extremism. She said Pakistan wants to have good relations with neighborly countries on the basis of mutual respect and interests. “You see Pakistan’s position is clear today and has been clear in the past. Our position is that this is something which is counter-productive. It is unlawful. It is illegal, and therefore they must cease. This is what the parliament of Pakistan has clearly said,” Ms. Khar said…
==========
No one ‘justifies’ terrorism using drone strikes. The claims is that they fuel the fire and makes recruitment for potential terrorists easier, brainwashing them into believing that Pakistan government is complicit in these drone strikes which everyone admits kill a lot of civilians.
^ The government has remained complicit during the past 4 and a half years when more than 300 strikes were carried out, suddenly as the elections are nearing and sensing the sensitivities of the people on the issue the government officials have also started passing statements against them.
Wichon wich khayi jao utton rola payi jao…
When Interior Minister Rehman Malik advised the US to hold off “alleged Predator attacks until after the Bajaur operation”, Gilani brushed off the remarks saying:“I don’t care if they do it as long as they get the right people. We’ll protest in the National Assembly and then ignore it.”
^ The government has remained complicit during the past 4 and a half years when more than 300 strikes were carried out, suddenly as the elections are nearing and sensing the sensitivities of the people on the issue the government officials have also started passing statements against them.
agreed.
so can we also assume that the current government is pro-Taliban?
At internet . On ground
PTI is no where
I am sorry , I often hurt you people but it is better to say the truth .
You see you think it is like a football team type of allegience ... The fact that hurts is not about PTI ... most PTI supporters will not support PTI if we think their policies are not good ... the fact that hurts is that there are so many people out there who neither care about the country nor understand what it will take to make it better ... for them opposition is not one about ideology or policy is it about "tribal" mindedness - such people will always stick to the same party - and never question their policies - for them policy being right or wrong is not even on the radar ... for them it is all about taking sides and partying when their side wins ... It serves no greater purpose ...
I can fairly comfortably say that if another party comes that is even more impressive than PTI most PTI people will switch ... but I can't say the same for current supporters of PPP or PMLN or MQM because if they wanted to demonstrate "free thinking" they would have moved already.
