Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
imran become lota to a.p.d.m wanted to partner with baynazir, nawaz
still dancing to the wrong tune are we?. Yes Imran joined APDM but that was a democratic move to fight the scourge of military rule, to restore democracy, not a compromise with BB and Nawaz on issues of corruption, extrajudicial killings etc. What's wrong with that? How does that make someone a lota? THINK...
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
Suhaib: my bad, I am sorry if I offended you in any way, after reading some of your interactions with Spock yesterday I came to this (admittedly) wrong conclusion that you supported MQM. But the other points in my post still stand....
gravity_killz: Thanks and appreciate your support
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
Yaar MWP when Imran sought the support of PPP and Nawaz recently that was to get all parties on one platform, to end military rule. He was n't seeking to grab power thru the back door. Imran has always maintained that charges of corruption (against BB and Nawaz) and extra-judicial killings against Altaf and MQM (and whomever for that matter) should stand and the investigation should take it's due course. He has always been very clear on that point and that is his principled stand. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking the support of political parties to promote democracy and end military dictatorship. He has always said that his party will fight the election on it's own manshoor. Imran was not compromising on his principles as some of you are deliberately trying to create this wrong impression about him.
And he's not an opportunist. If he had wanted to capture power thru the back door (like BB is doing now) he would have sided with Mush in 2002 and accepted PMship but he did n't (and he was offered the post of Federal Minister as early as the mid-eighties by Gen. Zia but he rejected it then as well). Yes he supported Mush in the beginning as indeed did I (even though I do not approve of military rule in any shape or form) because we all felt that he was doing something good for the country e.g his initial drive to collect taxes (which lasted a mere 3-4 months :)) which turned out to be nothing but sham and we soon realised that this power-hungry dictator was no different from his predecessors and all his subsequent moves incl. getting all lotas to unite under the umbrella of PML-Q or more recently his secret deal with kambakht BB were to ensure his grip on power.
That said I gave Mush credit in the past when I felt that he did something good. There has been some progress on the economic front, although if you look at the actual numbers it's all relative. I give him credit for freeing the media although this may have more to do with the internet age that we are living in. It is not as easy to gag the media now as perhaps it was back in the eighties. As for judicial independence, they gained it thru the lawyers' movement rather than the government granting them this freedom.
GA: You are the first one who actually explained the views of IK. I for one was extremely confused why is he talking the way he is. Problem I see is that the alliance he has with Sharifs and MMA. These people are equally corrupt and have the past consist of same things that he accuse the other alliance for. When I see this, I think that what he is doing is for political gain. Ok, IK, go for it make alliances for politics, but most of his policies have been to divide and rule. I have yet to see a platform from him that can unite every Pakistani. Moreover, he is not clear on what he would do on many issues facing the country. Mainly terrorism. His recent article suggest that people in NWFP are fight for their pride and revenge and from the glimpse of it I concluded that if he is the PM, he would immediatly withdraw troops from those areas. In addition, his explaination of tribal areas disappoints me. He is Oxford educated, he can come up with better explanation of why things are the way they are in NW rather just revenge culture. I think the people over there will be offended the way he represented them in his article. It projects them as barbaric animals who will go for revenge any time you cross the line. No compassion and moreover, they will secure even a terrorist if he stays with them for a week.
Reality is different. Opium production has again hit record levels in 2006 and will go to another level in 2007. The drug traffic has made a mess of that area. Many residents are hooked on it, other are carrying out their terrorist and militant activities with the money they are making from the trade. Even if the government destroys those fields, the workers are so poor that they have no choice but to join Al-Qaeda and Taliban, take up weapons against their own army. In addition, I see the poor people being hostage to this Taliban culture, when your CD shops to girl schools are blown up for no reason. When army personal are being beheaded, when the rule of law is done via AK-47 rather tribal laws, we know something is not straight.
IK, who probably can speak to the world on this regard and become a fighting force of change is doing nothing rather playing same old divide and rule politics. Like I said, if he is serious about corruption and law and order situation than he must look into his alliances and be fair. Moreover, the whole deal concerning MQM-PPP-army is not even close to IK and his party.
Entire situation erupted in late '80s when the army and government became the law rather establishing it. Politics, schools and institutions were invaded with theories of sharias. Instead of establishing the rule of law the government choosed to go over it, which is why we are facing the 2007. Most of the elements are because of it. The government that was sworn in to protect becomes your public enemy number one. In light of this, one is going to see sub-culture of corruption and malitia. It is similar to Lal Masjid and Waziristan and now when the government is finally realizing the reality, Imran Khan is not supporting it.
I don't see it any better way if he joins MMA and Sharif, these people don't represent his point of view. MMA may have tone down their voice for sharia, but there is no possiblity for them to enforce any democracy when elected. Same goes with Sharifs, who actually want more Mullah to take over government position. How is he able to abide by his principles with this alliance?
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
Here are my thoughts on Imran Khan.
He was a fantastic cricketer. He was a great fund-raiser and used his fame for the benefit of mankind (Shaukat Khanum Hospital). He is a born-again muslim (I suppose) who is a straight talker.
Now, here is the bitter part about Imran.
He is unwise. He does not understand politics. He does not have any realistic plans for success (just a running commentary on problems). And worst of all, he is doomed to be in opposition till the day he dies, or until he figures out the following simple truth about Pakistan.
In Pakistan, being in opposition is like living the life of a kutta. No body cares what you say, what you do and whether you are right or not. Pakistan is not not like advanced democracies in the West where opposition is valued and their voice is important. In Pakistan, those in government do not care what opposition says. Those in opposition, can do zilch for their supporters. Most important, if you are in opposition, you can not do ANYTHING for the people. The only time people in oppostion get any respect is if they can demonstrate that they can actually come to power at some point. Not so with Imran Khan.
Now, here is what Imran Khan should have done, or should do, if he ever wants to have more than one elected member from his party.
Learn a lesson from ZA Bhutto and how PPP was established in late-60's. How Bhutto went through the entire interior Sindh to establish relationships with influential leaders. The relationships Bhutto created in mid-60's are still the core of PPP's support and will bring BB to power once again in 2008. Imran Khan should establish grass-roots campaign and infrastructure. Establish relationships with people at the local level. Its difficult. Its time-consuming. Its draining. And its risky. He will have to deal with people of various opinions, and various mind-sets. How he convinces them to support him, and how he adapts to reality at the grass-roots level will determine how well he does in a future election.
Imran Khan needs to come up with a plan of success. A plan of hope for the people. In early 70's, it was "roti, kapra aur makaan - maang raha hai harr insaan" that clinched it for Bhutto and PPP. It was a wonderful slogan. Identifying the problem, as well as giving solution (just rhetorical, of course) and hope to all people. Yes, PPP never really delivered on their promises, but thats besides the point. A leader should give hope to his people.
Just acting like an angry young man (Amitabh Bachan of mid-70's) is not going to win Imran Khan any elections.
Most importantly, Imran Khan should reevaluate his close relationship with religious parties. They can doom whatever election hopes he may have. They can never carry him to any electoral victory. In the modern time, they are like plague. Even if they win more electoral victories, they can not afford to carry a former play-boy in their folds. Its a marriage-of-inconvenience at multiple levels. Get a divorce. Right away.
What Imran says about Waziristan and about corruption and good governance, makes sense. But what he needs to understand is that to be effective he has to be in government. Just yip yapping all the time as a lame opposition leader is not going to get anything accomplished.
Simple. Bitter. Truth.
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
Very good post Faisal bhai :k:
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
Thanks MWP and Faisal bhai for your very thoughtful comments. Constructive criticism is always welcome in my book.
I agree that as an opposition MNA you can do zilch in Pakistan but it isn't strictly true. Yes you won't be able to influence policy changes at national/international level but you can still do a lot for the development of your constituency. Imran indeed has done a lot of work in Mianwali like setting up a university, several schools and small hospitals which should stand him in good stead in the coming election. I mean I am not sure about Lahore but he should atleast win his seat from Mianwali despite the rigging which undoubtedly would happen on a grand scale!
And I agree that Imran should do away with his love for religious parties not least because none of them can really be trusted. They are no different from other parties in lotageeri. Fazlu is a shining example of that.
I think the way forward for Imran is to join PML-N in the short-term till such time people know more about other faces in his party (that's another problem area for him) and what he/his party really stands for.
Even in a country like the US, you can do zilch as an independent politician/politician of a new party no matter how honest, sincere and capable you are unless you join one of the two main parties (Republicans or Democrats). Ross Perot is a great example of that. Same is the case in Britain where it's always the Tories (Conservatives) v Labour.
As for breaking thru at grassroots level I am not sure why he has n't achieved much success in that area. Maybe it's because TI supporters and party workers are relying too much on Imran's personality to win them votes and not doing enough to convince people at local level. They really should have started door-to-door/house-to-house campaigning long time ago.
Perhaps his main problem is that he's a very honest and straight-talking individual and the majority of people in Pakistan being chor themselves don't identify themselves with his party. aakhir chor choron ko hee vote dein ge na!!
When some people talk about Imran being clueless about policy matters, I dare to ask them what policies do other parties have if any e.g. re. improving health and education, creating jobs etc. All they ever come up with is anti-terrorism bu**. These parties have a huge vote bank not necessarily because of any meaningful policies but because of the personalities they represent. Even today the PPP is riding on the name of ZAB (not BB) and the PML is the name of Nawaz Sharif.
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
GA Bhaijan, I totally agree with you. Apart from President Musharaf and his govt. no other party has come with how they will improve on what has been achieved over the past 8 years, for example there are more hospitals now then ever before, there are better and more education establishments than ever before, and there are more jobs with private sector booming than ever before.
God Bless President Musharaf and the unprecedented economic growth. I wish other parties could share their agenda of how they will improve the lot in Pakistan. 
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
Suhaib: my bad, I am sorry if I offended you in any way, after reading some of your interactions with Spock yesterday I came to this (admittedly) wrong conclusion that you supported MQM. But the other points in my post still stand....
gravity_killz: Thanks and appreciate your support
well asif, if you go back to when imran was offered pm by musharraf, he was all hyped up, he use to go around saying he will easily sweep the elections and was fully confident in it, therefore he didnt side with mush cause he knew mush would be stronger then him, the guy the power hungry but ofcourse he got a big slap after terribly losing, just look at his excuse for not taking the pm post, he is saying mush promised to make institutions and failed to, but there has been many made now,
he does not know a thing of politics, the way he has gone around in the last 3 elections saying he will easily win is just a joke,
now you say that imran khan has been saying that the corruption charges on bibi and ns should go in an investigation, will then why is he alway defending them at the same time, i saw his interview with shahid masood on geo, the day after ns revealed that he was lieing all along and he had signed a contract to stay in saudia, and masood had to really dig it out of imrans mouth to hear him say ns lied, he was clearly trying to defend him.
even if you say he is just aligned with them to bring democracy, then its just hypocrasy to do anything with corrupts and murders, especially if you know about it,
and as about mushs progress which you have pointed out, well tax collection has been a major success, rising from $2 billion in 1999 to 15billion today, its a major success.
and about mush joining with pmlq, well he didnt have an option, he had to join with someone, and in all four corners were corrupts what could he do? this is not his problem, this is a problem of the past and wiping corruption out will take alot of time, that said, the choudaries have done good work for punjab and have been better then any other previous gov. of punjab,
as for media, mush always made it clear from the very begining he came here that he wants media to grow, even thought the internet age helped it go more free, mush also played a big part in making it free, if there was ns or bibi they wouldnt have even allowed internet to come to pakistan
anyway i dnt really have a problem with imran has he will never come to power, my problem is with bibi and ganja, as one of them will become the next pm.
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
now you say that imran khan has been saying that the corruption charges on bibi and ns should go in an investigation, will then why is he alway defending them at the same time
and may I ask how he "defends" bibi/ns?
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
Suhaib I know what you're saying but it's not an easy position for Imran to be in. I am repeating this but Imran has never defended BB or Nawaz's corruption record. When you are fighting for something like restoration of democracy it's almost impossible to go it alone esp. when your own party has next to nil representation in parliament. You have to align (not compromise) with other parties because whether they are bad or corrupt they are part of that democratic process. I think in the short-term he really has to align with a major party perhaps PML-N atleast till such time people know more about what he/his party stand for. Maybe I am being naive here but being part of a coalition probably should n't have to mean that you have to compromise on all principles. Maybe he should align with Nawaz but at the same time make it clear to Nawaz that TI won't be supporting him in any future corruption investigation i.e. the process should take it's due course. But then will it work?
Perhaps Imran's biggest problem is that he's looking at things as he would like them to be rather than looking at them as they are and then trying to work his way thru to solve them. He should realise that we are afterall not living in utopia.
Yes it does seem that kambakht BB will win a record third term as PM. But the real power would still lie with the President (i.e. Mush can dismiss her anytime) unless BB comes to power with a really heavy (2/3) mandate (allowing her to do away with the constitutional amendment that gives the president the power to dismiss the PM). Such a mandate is not impossible esp. with lotageeri being so rife in the current political environment. Were she to fall just short of a 2/3rds majority, I am sure there would be many lotas willing to join her in government!
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
In 1997 NS won an unprecedented 2/3 majority that was largly down to PPP voters boycoting the elections. PPP only won 18 seats because of this boycott.
Also, an important thing to note is that because of the boycott by PPP voters there was an historical low turnout of only 26% !!!.
Let this be a lesson to all Pakistanis. Never boycott elections, and use their right to vote - if allowed of-course. :)
Yup, that is a very factual account of the 1997 election. The PPP were foolish to boycott the elections and allow Nawaz to capture 2/3 of seats, with which he then ended up bulldozing all the democratic institutions of Pakistan, which meant no one but the military could then stop him.
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
Yup, that is a very factual account of the 1997 election. The PPP were foolish to boycott the elections and allow Nawaz to capture 2/3 of seats, with which he then ended up bulldozing all the democratic institutions of Pakistan, which meant no one but the military could then stop him.
That's right. I am sure they have learnt the bitter lesson and will take their part in the democratic process.
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
Maybe Imran should get Fatima Bhutto, the estranged niece of BB on his side. Afterall everything is fair in love and politics. Not that I seriously believe that Fatima would be willing to leave the party of her grandfather however she might hate BB, but it's just a thought...
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
*Maybe Imran should get Fatima Bhutto, the estranged niece of BB on his side. Afterall everything is fair in love and politics. *
would that be love or politics?
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
It’s good to see the masses of Pakistan can fit into a posh conference room at the Holiday Inn :k:
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
Unlike MQM workers who sit on the ground or grass!
Re: Imran Khan to TI party workers: " Desert me if I ever go back on my principles"
Unlike MQM workers who sit on the ground or grass!
Like the masses of Pakistan, yes.