Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
41

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

DAMN GOOD YAZDI,

I am sure that every country, leave alone Pakistan would be proud to have a citizen like you, who thinks so positively, constructively and with the right focus for its nation.

42

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

I dont think that Yazdi means to drop the Kashmir issue all together. i think he means that first lets get the internal conditions and the house in order and then worry about anything else. Why compromise internal peace at the risk of an issue which potentially shall take a long time to resolve. Lets face it, the situation in Pakistan is not attractive enough and further deteriorating for the Kashmiris to find it attractive to opt for it. Am a proud Indian and am not getting into a debate with you regarding Kashmir, but yes if the issue starts affecting our day to day life, then shall say hell with it for the time being and let us first get our house in order. Being sympathetic/supportive to any kind of militancy for any cause/issue is going to burn my house too sooner or later.

43

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

Hanibal: no disagreement on that, all i'm concerned with, and my first post was about is this --->

Yazdi and company, why its so difficult to understand that someone who used to be involved in any kind of armed movement in Kashmir earlier with support of Pakistani govt can leave that mode of operation and continue to work for welfare of general public? Why cannot we stop accusing of terrorism, every single organization that comes up with islamic names? where are the proofs that JuD has terrorist training cells? they may have a fair share of infiltration into their ranks also, isn't it possible? why cannot gather proofs, nab the ones involved in unlawful activities and show them to public and just punish them as per law? why always its the only solution to ban the whole organization saying its "terrorist outfit", why?

and when media (all of them) says that JuD and LeT has training cells which are waging war on india and afghanistan why we immediately buy that but when same thing is said about india and america we ask for proofs and call it a conspiracy theory, it makes us nothing but hypocrite, we ourselves make this perception about us.

where are the proofs that Falah-e-insaniyat which this thappar guy (and others supporting him)is accusing of being a terrorist organization? just because india and america and their so called liberal lovers in pakistan said that? that's not enough of a proof.

that's all i'm concerned with... curb and catch and nab anyone doing anything unlawful, not only armed activities but also the traitorous activities from any platform, including finance and media. whats the obsession with loving india and trade and stuff where pakistan is only the looser? why cannot we simply ban indian products and tell our people to buy pakistani stuff, we are not going to export anything to india more than we can consume ourselves for obvious reasons. india has lower cost of production in almost all products, which will end up in pakistan in lower price damaging local industry and business. the biggest issue for pakistani economy is not foreign investment its the power crisis, shortage of water and corruption. non of these issues need polishing india's shoes to get them solved really. non of these issue is caused by JuD or LeT etc.

when people say that (and they say that based on what media says and what govt says) these welfare organizations first help people and then recruit them for terrorist activities... fine why don't you keep a tight check and do investigations where someone is recruited like this punish them? its possible its mere a perception, its also possible that there are few elements in every organization who are like that, why not just get rid of them, purge them and be done with it.

and Yazdi, for kashmir you are half correct this time, you are right when you say we are no one to decide if kashmir is part of pakistan or not. but you failed to note that it is because the matter was already decided 65 years ago, and since then india is occupying it by force, get india out of kashmir first and then talk about kashmiries deciding what they want... as long as they are occupying our land, oppressing our people, lynching our resources, we have all the right to respond this occupancy in every possible way we can... its simple as that.

44

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

why not tell this to your govt? and why only "to hell with it for the time being", why not decide it for once and all? just take your army out, let people decide what they want, whats the fuss about?

45

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

What should I tell my govt. my friend. Please understand that right now the general position within Pakistan is much worse than we have here in India, definitely by perception. The serpent of militancy that you have been feeding all this while is has been biting you too for a while. There has been a gradual but definite shift from moderate and tolerant thinking in the society to a much more conservative one. I have been in love with your PTV dramas of the eighties and early nineties and one can sense the gradual metamorphosis in the society since lets say a Shama to now. Pakistan had colour television much much before India had. Your standard of living was better and currency much stronger. We in India were all envious of this but look what has happened now. This is exactly what i feel Yazdi is saying to make Pakistan strong economically and make the society more tolerant. But well you can turn around and say that this perception is incorrect. Also by encouraging organizations like LET, JUD (and of course Osama though he is not linked directly with Kashmir) and give them safe haven in your country i for the cause of Kashmiris is ok by you, then what can I say. Please understand that these complex disputes take time to resolve and ABSOLUTELY not by militancy. Am sure you dont expect India to get scared and hand over Kashmir to you.

46

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

@Aceones!

First of all it's an internal debate within our society. Your point of view is shared by a lot of my countrymen.. and it took a long time for people like IK to change their point of view and come more in line with a closer point of view to mine. Previously he was perceived as person sympathetic to the militants.

I don't mind if someone from Pakistan opens a facebook page to show solidarity with Kashmir cause. You can also celebrate a Kashmir day and make speeches to show you are sympathetic to Kashmir cause.. no problem. But defending militant organizations whose declared policy is to have an armed struggle in Kashmir.. who still try to instigate people to pick up their arms to fight in Kashmir.. please don't use my soil for this purpose.

Why not join some other charity organization to do social work, there are many in Pakistan. Why they insist on keeping intact these militant organizations. If they want an Islamic name and identity.. there are many without a militant agenda in Pakistan. Tableeghi Jamaaat is one.. why don't they join TJ.. nobody has ever raised any objection against them. As far as proof of their militant mentality is concerned.. you just have to listen to the speeches these guys publicly make. They never deny their intention of an armed struggle against Indian forces. They make these speeches openly in public. it's only you who is trying to defend and portray them as peaceful propagandist only. Even they themselves don't call themselves only harmless charity workers who use propaganda to further their cause.

Lot of water has passed in last 65 years under the bridges. What ever was decided 65 years may be not what Kashmiris want today (Only Kashmiris have the right to express what they want today). Let them express themselves what they want. Let's not try to dance in their party more than them. If they want to do an armed struggle against Indian forces.. let them do it themselves. If they want to hold negotiations with India.. let them do it. LET'S NOT TRY TO ENGINEER A FREEDOM STRUGGLE FOR THEM FROM OUR SOIL..

47

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

Pakistan still officially support the Kashmir cause .
People like Imran Khan having no mind says only what is the requirement of the day. He can go with Taliban and He can fight Taliban.
As a puppet of establishment he is not free .
Have to follow the masters.
You see how successful is our establishment.
No youth movement will be there in Pakistan .
We will like slaves as ever .

48

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

@yazdi... fair point

do all that, but go through proper channel. you have a law, you have a working judiciary, catch the culprits, file a case, and actually PURSUE the case, get them punished... if you don't have law, you have parliament, make the law... why just ban something and term everyone the same? that's a mere generalization and its not going to work.

i believe wast majority of public supports them not because they promote armed struggle in kashmir or anywhere in the world, rather they support them because these organizations work for them in real terms, they provide them food, education health services...

i don't agree that a decision which was taken 65 years ago can simply be rejected because it was taken 65 years ago... why not simple ASK the people? whats the use of keeping half a million army there and rapping women and killing men on regular basis?

and if someone says its india's internal matter, then no my friend, its not an internal matter at all, you yourself agreed in your post that IT WAS DECIDED, irrespective of how many years ago, once it was decided that its part of pakistan only after that india invaded and occupied, its part of history cannot be denied. how it can become indians internal matter just because it has been occupying the area for 65 years?

49

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

are you a spokes man of yazdi that you are trying to explain his point in last two posts? i know what he's saying.

and please keep osama/obama drama out of this

i stand by my point, kashmir was decided to be a part of pakistan by the authorities at that time, and it remains so until people of kashmir decide otherwise. till then, india is nothing more than an occupier with half a million army killing my country men there on daily basis. I've all the right or i would say actually responsibility to support them in every means they wish to employ to get rid of the oppressor and get their land free... once that is done and they decide to maintain their separate identity i will have no issue with that.

50

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

see you cannot hold gun at us and say conduct plebiscite, right!!! Militants from your side of Kashmir started coming into Indian Kashmir in 88 and disturbed the whole valley, every time the right wingers say they will take kashmir by struggle, we enhance our security measures to defend it, thus jeopardizing any effort of peace between two nations. We fought militancy when India was struggling economically, now we have all advantages over Pakistan, political, social, economical and militarily, first stop militancy, allow army to move back to barracks, make the environment conductive for such exercise.

secondly there is dispute on disputed region itself, separatists claim Jammu and Laddakh are also disputed, India claims gilgit-baltistan along with Aksai chin is disputed and also the territory transferred to china by Pakistan. and to sort of this crisis all parties have to make environment conductive enough, we aren't able to solve Sir Creek, Siachen dispute, kashmir is one big problem.

51

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

Why is it so so difficult to understand the immorality of using militias to achieve political desires and goals? If Imran Khan or anyone said they will support the terrorists, regardless of the what the goals are, right there is the problem.

52

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

This talk of militants is getting tired and abused as a excuse in my view.

the main problem people want to solve is the economic problems, lack of jobs, fuel shortages, no electric. high food prices.

When are the politicians going to ever solve these problems mentioned the ones people actually been suffering for last decade. I think they cannot solve them so they use the excuse of militants here there everywhere instead!

53

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

peace is the key !

54

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

Why does he want to negotiate with Taliban and even offered to negotiate with haqqani? Isn't negotiating about give and take? I always thought imran was fond of police operations like the 1996 operation, the idea of which is appealing to me compared to our janglee military (like all militaries are).

But, there is a silver lining that exposure and pressure can convert imran into a center left politician! :)

55

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

if it was decided to be part of pakistan ,why did pakistan army in garb of tribals invaded kashmir,most hurriedly in a cheapest possible way? , govt.of pakistan should have waited for verdict of authorities .( if according to your claim they had decided the kashmir as part of pakistan ) .

i would like to know where have you been when your army was killing your countrymen in 1971 in east pakistan , or your army killed 15000 mohazirs in karachi certainly they were your countrymen.only mercineries or rogues from pakistan are killed by indian army ,indian army is a disciplined force, it is not a dictators army which sneaked like thieves in kargil

kashmir is an integral part of india , elected provincial assemblies have been functional right from 1947 till today ,better refrain from disturbing peace of kashmir .kashmiris don't consider you as their co countryman if you don't believe ask farrooq abdulla on twitter he will tell you.

best way out of this crisis is to accept l.o.c. as border and move on.

56

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

absurd to say the least, doesn't even warrant a full reply...

57

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

[note]Please do not derail the thread guys. If somebody wants to discuss Kashmir should open a new thread. The topic being discussed is an important one and should not be derailed with off topic posts..[/note]

58

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

thank you , no problem ! i did not expect one.

59

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

Reading the interview, it appears to be more a case of the interviewer trying to coax a reply against JD from Imran Khan who kept on trying to stick to the blanket "no militant groups in Pakistan" line which the Pakistani establishment has used all along for many years, leaving enough room for denial and secret support. I wouldn't read too much into this statement from IK. If he had come himself strongly against JD or LeT, that would have merit some attention.

60

Re: Imran Khan commits to curb militant groups including Jamat Dawa

First of all I am not Yazdis's spokesman. Have read his views on various threads in this forum and feel that he is one of moderate and rational thinking. Unlike you though who thinks that he is a self proclaimed spokesman of the Kashmiri people.

Now if Imran Khan feels that there should be confidence and trust building measures and then a dialogue towards, resolving the Kashmir Issue, then whats the problem. You may have the right or responsibility to support them as also propagated by the JUD and LET at the cost of your own country suffering; well very good but unfortunately it wont get you far. Also you think very highly of JUD and LET who you think are charitable organizations working only for social service then excellent. The media is wrong, so is the world but obviously you are the ACE, so you are always correct.

Coming back to the thread, if IK intends to ban all these organizations encouraging terrorism against any other country and has taken a stand against terrorism and also not negotiating with the Taliban, then it is a very positive change from his earlier stand of talking peace with the Taliban. Not sure though how far would he be able to implement it though.