Imran Khan banned...(merged)

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

Than you should worry about the biggest cronies/enablers of the army govt which is PML(Q). MQM is just the regional party that sadly is supporting the present govt.

And that's great that you think Karachi is different, but there is limit to how much tolerance people can have when people from other parts of the country come to work and live in Karachi but spit at mohajirs and call them all sorts of interesting names. On top of that their ghundas go on rampage. If you expect no reaction you are living in a fools paradise. Mohajirs will always protect themselves against any threat. The days of our weakness are long gone.

If you can't deal with it, than that is your issue.

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

PML(Q) isnt strong in the area I come from. Nor have they been as violent in proving their thralldom to the lord army as MQM has been. But sure, MQM is atleast as bad as PML(Q).

You atleast admit that MQM is a crony. Why with your consistent anti-army posting on this forum dont you have the stones to blast the MQM on this issue instead of bleating weak statements of regret? If you expect intellectual honesty from others, why not be honest yourself?

[quote]

And that's great that you think Karachi is different, but there is limit to how much tolerance people can have when people from other parts of the country come to work and live in Karachi but spit at mohajirs and call them all sorts of interesting names. On top of that their ghundas go on rampage. If you expect no reaction you are living in a fools paradise. Mohajirs will always protect themselves against any threat. The days of our weakness are long gone.

If you can't deal with it, than that is your issue.
[/QUOTE]

Save the jingoism for some of your non-Karachiite adversaries. Behind the Army, MQM is probably the biggest killers of muhajirs in Karachi. I have personal experiences, within my family, of harassment and violence by MQM goons.

I find it hilarious how you can antagonize terrorist mulla supporters on this forum and yet support a different stripe of terrorists, terrorists fighting for a different idealogy. Dont forget that I am a Muhajir too. I have to respond to those names too. But violence is not any sort of solution. Any Muslim living outside his country has had to face anti-Muslim prejudice, sometimes name calling, sometimes worse. Is Al-Qaida the logical answer to that, from your perspective?

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

Khehkeshan the vast majority of people who were at the forefront of Pakistan movement were born in present (and not in present Pakistan). Prominent leaders like Maulana Muhammad Ali Jauhar, Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, Liaqat Ali Khan and one could argue even Jinnah were all urdu-speaking. So Pakistan belongs to urdu-speaking (I don't like the term mohajirs btw) people as much as it does anyone-else.

As an ethnic group urdu-speaking people are the most educated in Pakistan, hence you see their dominance on TV for instance. Even Imran Khan acknowledged that fact during his recent Capital Talk appearance.

The problem is not urdu-speaking people but MQM and its violence. I have deep reservations about Altaf joker and his MQM (can they not find a more educated leader than him?)

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

Persona non-grata is law that is there all over the world, where one state can disallow citizen of another state to come to their state, declaring the person as unacceptable. I believe that it is wrong in Pakistani constitution that provincial government could disallow a Pakistani of another province to enter their province, declaring that person persana non-grata. (I believe, only federation employee on their duty can be exempt from this law).

Unfortunately, when we talk about federation of Pakistan and under constitution provinces are considered as federated states of Pakistan, this law automatically becomes applicable. It is surprising that some people believes and want that Pakistan should be federation of states (Provinces) but disagree with the laws that is there because of it.

This law of pesona non-grata is very minor law and effects very few. Worse is what applies to all Pakistanis irrespective, that is, a domiciled (citizen) of one federated state cannot even go to another state to study or work until that person gets the domicile of that another federated state after living there for a number of years.

For instance, if I have domicile of Sindh then I would not be able to apply for admission to study in Punjab government’s Universities as any person of Punjabi domiciled student (same is true for any student of any province if that person would like to study in another province). Surprisingly, if I have Karachi domicile than I would not be able to even apply to study in Universities of Sindh unless there is quota for Karachi.

Same goes with most jobs. A person with Sindh domicile cannot apply for any provincial government job in Punjab (Same is true for all provinces). Even in federal job, there is fixed quota for all provinces and one can only apply for jobs on the quota of their province of residence.

Even when a product is moved from Sindh to Punjab (applies to all provinces), it cannot move without permission of the province and without paying the levy. Suppose if one province wants to, they can even stop leaving any commodity from their province to another, even if goods are essential. For instance, suppose Sindh or Punjab feels that they would have shortage in wheat, they can stop wheat movement from their province to another province however bad other province needs are. Well, movement of commodity from one province to another is considered as smuggling. Legally, a person cannot even take above certain amount of gold from one province to another.

Thus, when there is so much restriction in freedom of movement between provinces, this persona non-grata law is of very minor value. Thus, I would suggest that first we should think about Unity of Pakistan, rather beat the bush for nothing. Once that get sorted out, all would get sorted out automatically (though I know that there is lot of opposition regarding any such unity move, and I respect their concerns).

As for Imran in politics, that is different matter. I believe that persons that consider themselves national figures (like Imran Khan); should not come in politics. Reason being that politics is game of parties and oppositions; where people are divided on basis of interests and personal values; that could be easily different, depending on regions and people in the country. Some people iare socialists, some are capitalists, some are opportunists, some are exploiters, some represent vested interests (like feudal and elite class in Pakistan), some are religionist (represents their brand of religion or sect), some are nationalists (regional nationalism), some are provincialist (nationalist province wise), some are patriotic (nationalist in Pakistan sense), some have tribal affiliations, some fighting for their assumed rights, X Y Z.

People who are national figures (or consider themselves as national figures) should be above differences in politics that exists in all Nation, and thus should have no obvious political affiliations and should stay out of politics. These national figures from outside politics should always show that they are neutral when it comes to politics. If that person wants to serve the country, that person should do that outside politics. If that person comes into politics, then that person loses status of national figure, as that person starts antagonizing people of different political affiliations then his own, thus same people who should be giving that person love and respect, start taking him as opponent and give that so-called national figure scorn.

Just imagine that to promote his Party, Imran talked against leaders and representatives of almost all parties; that includes PPPP, PML (Q), PML (N), MQM, and others. He talked against almost all political leaders. Over the years, just because of politics, he must have antagonized many. Now, there are many die-hard supporters of all parties. So how anyone can expect that Imran can do that and still be a national figure for all?

I think that Imran should have learned from Edhi, who when contacted by political parties to join them, always declined, saying that he serves all (good, bad or ugly).

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

now..the badmashi and ghunda gardi of CM sindh and MQM is exposed to whole world...so now...they aree naked in front of all....& larger bench of Sindh HC took suo moto action....so its the frustration of Sindh government and MQM....

Imran..be brave...we are with you.....

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

ravage, I don't have time for a lengthy response right now, but let me just sayt one thing.

If it was not for MQM's defence of Karachi, we would have had 20 operation cleanups in Karachi by now. And we all know what that would have meant for Mohajirs and Pakistan.

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

MQM has very much control on its workers/members, but in this case they pretend as it's out of their control if Imran enters in Sindh. This is totally absurd.

If they 'd want to stop killings, they can. But they are yet again proving themselves terrorists.

On one hand mqm calls itself an elected political party, but in their actions they actually DICTATE people and media by threatening them; what to say, what to show on tv, banning on movement of people etc.

So, by nature it's a dictator party not a democratic; they don't have any tolerance to take criticism. And i won't be surprised that they dictate and force poor urdu-speaking people to go to rallies and close their shops.

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

Whenever you have time for a lengthy (or atleast complete) response, come back here. Time is often a convenient cop-out for people :).

[quote]

, but let me just sayt one thing.

If it was not for MQM's defence of Karachi, we would have had 20 operation cleanups in Karachi by now. And we all know what that would have meant for Mohajirs and Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]

I dont buy it. You have absolutely no basis for making that claim, since prior to MQM's violence no operation on that scale ever happened in Karachi, in 30 plus years of existence. Infact I will go as far as to say that until MQM came along the government never had the political pretext to conduct the operation it did. MQM never had more muscle than it did when the operation happened. If it couldnt prevent the operation then, and if it got crushed along with the people it supposedly protects back then, what can it do now to prevent the other 19 operations if they are to happen?

Hawaii fire karna bara asaan hota hai.

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh…

48-50’s against Pashtuns, 1971 against Bengalis, 73-74 and today also against Balochs. It is in the blood of Pakistani army to fight its own people. But today they will think twice before going into Karachi again.

Sometimes, the people fight back. Here is an example of Balochs fighting back:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=43e_1179292481

It’s sad, but its reality that one has to come to terms with. Lack of democracy, justice and discrimination have created these situations and created MQM.

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

So is this your excuse or explanation to ban Imran from Sindh?

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

I asked what basis you had for saying something like that could happen "20 times" in Karachi. You bring forth three instances, against different ethnicities (some of whom Muhajirs and MQM have had fights with :)), from decades before MQM even came around. Whatever you say, your current partners in power never did those kinds of operations against Karachi people until MQM came along, and when they did the operation MQM not only got crushed, but could do nothing to protect the people of Karachi.

I completely understand the situation that created MQM, and I would support the MQM cause if it werent for the direction their movement took. All the issues that motivated people to support MQM are completely valid, except the terrorism, dadageeri, organized crime, goons for hire, collaboration and support of army rule, murders.

Now I'd appreciate you clarifying two things

i) When will you properly condemn MQM and disassociate with them for siding and enabling and fighting for the very same army that you argue against on these forums day in and out?

ii) Would you accept that militancy/terrorism for any cause is the same, whether it be religious, or ethnic?

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

No one spits on the on urdu speaking people. Karachi is not a malkiyat of urdu speaking or MQM, it belongs to the entire nation and anyone can come and work there. The reason people don't like MQM is because of what they have done to Karachi. And on top of all that they have feed in the minds of urdu speaking people that people from rest of the country hate and are taking away their share of resources. And the only reason MQM is supporting present government is because Mushy is a karachiite.
And why do urdu speaking people call themselves mohajir? They were not the only ones who migrated to Pakistan; my family migrated to Pakistan and settled in Punjab, they don’t call themselves mohajir. There are thousands and thousands of people around Pakistan who migrated to all different regions in Pakistan; they all don’t call themselves mohajir, then why do these urdu speaking people call themselves mohajir?

Stop spreading hate...will you?

Re: Lo Kar Lo Gal

ok...he was a playboy not a terrorist...

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

^ it isnt as simple as that. Muhajirs call themselves that because they are seen that way by the people living with them. They are legally seen that way when they apply for jobs, for admissions.

Just yesterday friends of mine were ribbing me about MQM, and this punjabi fellow whom we had just met and took the ribbing seriously launched into a tirade about the various features of Muhajirs, including our sneakiness, our tendency to stab people in the back, and other features.

Nobody would have more to gain if the only criterion in Pakistan was Pakistani citizenship :). Infact all this started when legally people started discriminating between people on the basis of ethnicity, and Muhajirs were deprived of oppurtunities on the basis of their ethnicity.

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

agree 100% he has shown that he can walk the walk and not just talk the talk. rest of the pppl just yip yap.

its beyond ridiculous that the govt has to stoop to this.

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

I think the trm karachites should be accepted to refer to ppl living in karachi, and that would be the end of the whole mohajir terminology.

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

no it wont. so long as you have division of resources on the basis of ethnicity and origin, you will have these differences no matter what you call people.

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

Personally, I see it as a war of Punjabis and Muhajirs with Muhajirs being spearheaded by Musharaf and Shaukat Aziz and Punjabis by military and politician. Imran needs some issue to bank on politically. And probably, lobbies within powefull institutions are propping him as the new leader to replace Nawaz and Benazir. This is how leaders are invented in Pakistan.

He is more fundo than mullahs.

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

yeah but then the differences and struggle for rights would not get side tracked by the whole mohajir terminology rather than looking at grievances. it would be similar to sindhis or balochis speaking up about their discontent on division of resources.

Re: Imran Khan banned from Sindh...

i have been there countless times, never had any difficulty ( other than language problem) rather i found those people innocent andhospitality-wise far better than our "educated" and "modern" people.