Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
On a side note, marriage of the Prophet (SAW) with Hazrat Khadija (RA) also proves that Islam has no obsession with virginity. There are hundreds of cases, where companions of the Prophet married widowed ladies and there is no restriction placed on Muslims to marry only virgins.
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
I think, no society (whether religious or irreligious) would like to see children whose father is not identified irrespective of how open the society is to freedom of sex.
Such sentences can be damaging to people whose father is unknown. And there are plenty of such folks. They are raised by single mothers, relatives or adopted. And they do quite well.
We have moved past the time when such folks were called the bast... word. It is no longer taboo. And more power to folks who pulled society into 21st century due to their vision - that such things are INSIGNIFICANT.
Yes, each time I read such posts, the question "How about them moderates?" pops up.
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
Such sentences can be damaging to people whose father is unknown. And there are plenty of such folks. They are raised by single mothers, relatives or adopted. And they do quite well.
We have moved past the time when such folks were called the bast... word. It is no longer taboo. And more power to folks who pulled society into 21st century due to their vision - that such things are INSIGNIFICANT.
Yes, each time I read such posts, the question "How about them moderates?" pops up.
Exception does exists, but making this a norm of the day is not accepted even by so called open societies.
Knowing who is the father is a SIGNIFICANT psychological issue, whether we accept it or reject in the name of so called enlightened moderation.
As far as the oldest question in the history 'how about them moderates', there is a tip i.e. one cannot claim for being liberal / fair minded when he/ she tries to impose their thoughts on others, without respecting someones religious and social norms.
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
Exception does exists, but making this a norm of the day is not accepted even by so called open societies.
Knowing who is the father is a SIGNIFICANT psychological issue, whether we accept it or reject in the name of so called enlightened moderation.
As far as the oldest question in the history 'how about them moderates', there is a tip i.e. one cannot claim for being liberal / fair minded when he/ she tries to impose their thoughts on others, without respecting someones religious and social norms.
Religious and social norms that are hurtful dont deserve respect. It is irrelevant if this sentence is interpreted as being unfair minded.
Just because something is the norm in society doesn't ALWAYS make it right. What two young people did out of wedlock should NOT negatively impact the INNOCENT children. We as a society are moving towards ACCEPTANCE of such children ( AND their single parent or guardian).
Those that made it happen are the TRULY moral people. Period.
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
And no, there is no such thing as "enlightened moderation". Moderates are the problem. Hence the question "How about them Moderates?"
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
No one is "imposing thoughts on you". This is an opinion forum. You are free to accept or reject such opinions.
As a proponent of religion-based laws, I am surprised you don't see the irony.
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
Why is virginity so important in almost every major religion?
For examples, going back 1000s of years Incas and virgins sacrifices. Christianity and virgin birth. Islam and promised virgins in after life. Hinduism?
i think virginity is considered the most virtuous and devout gift or Prize. i think it also means that virgin is someone who is not having feeling for anyone except the one she is made for ( as after death ). also as we now even on Eid the bakra gets his parts reversed before he get to be considered as qurbani ka baqra :)
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
Religious and social norms that are hurtful dont deserve respect. It is irrelevant if this sentence is interpreted as being unfair minded.
Just because something is the norm in society doesn't ALWAYS make it right. What two young people did out of wedlock should NOT negatively impact the INNOCENT children. We as a society are moving towards ACCEPTANCE of such children ( AND their single parent or guardian).
Those that made it happen are the TRULY moral people. Period.
It hurts when someone couldn't find who is his/ her father as the society has not become fatherless in totality. Whats wrong if a child get chance to know his / her father due to such norms? These norms have been developed from a society, where a woman was involved in polyandry. These norms made her and her children life easy, thats why these norms survived without being criticized by a large portion of society, leaving those who got hurt by each and every norms.
who said that such children should not be accepted? The children should be accepted, but activities creating such children should be curbed, as there are ways to it in the for of marriage. One should have a courage to adapt legal route and own the children, they bring in this world.
Following the institution called marriage has neither been termed illegal nor immoral by any society. no?
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
No one is "imposing thoughts on you". This is an opinion forum. You are free to accept or reject such opinions.
As a proponent of religion-based laws, I am surprised you don't see the irony.
Agree. Its an open forum. Then please just share your thoughts, without raising question on others opinions. Being moderates or opponent of religious based laws, doesn't make someone partial/ impartial. period.
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
Agree. Its an open forum. Then please just share your thoughts, without raising question on others opinions. Being moderates or opponent of religious based laws, doesn't make someone impartial. period.
There are several ways to share one's opiniion. Sometimes, one just States ones opinion. Sometimes one finds flaws in the logic of another's opinion. I will do one or both as I see fit. I don't need you to tell me that I can only share my opinion one way.
And who said opposition to religion based laws makes someone impartial?
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
It hurts when someone couldn't find who is his/ her father as the society has not become fatherless in totality. Whats wrong if a child get chance to know his / her father due to such norms? These norms have been developed from a society, where a woman was involved in polyandry. These norms made her and her children life easy, thats why these norms survived without being criticized by a large portion of society, leaving those who got hurt by each and every norms.
who said that such children should not be accepted? The children should be accepted, but activities creating such children should be curbed, as there are ways to it in the for of marriage. One should have a courage to adapt legal route and own the children, they bring in this world.
Following the institution called marriage has neither been termed illegal nor immoral by any society. no?
Of course if father can be identified, he should be. And he should support his kid(s). No argument there.
Your view that "such activities should be curbed" by legal means is just, shall we say, a bit over the top. Individual liberty and freedom are priceless. Rather than worrying about out of wedlock children, the wise are already aware of the epidemic of "married men" visiting brothels and leading a double life. I suggest we work towards legalizing prostitution. There may be more kids with unidentified fathers. But they certainly would lead better lives than currently.
As for your let para on marriage, no one is saying marriage is NOT a good institution. Just that out of wedlock stigma NEEDS TO BE REMOVED. PERIOD.
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
Since you tried to confuse things by stating opponents of religion based laws are not impartial, kindly allow me to state clearly my point. Your statement was out of the blue since I made no mention of impartiality of secular folks.
I was pointing out the contradiction between
1) your objection to my "imposition of my belief on you"
2) and your support of religion-based laws.
If you still don't see the irony....
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
As seen in the accompanying story, “sluuts” are not the problem. It is the male customers who don’t even have qualm wrt young boys. All the laws are useless. Because they target the women while the men are hailed for their exploits.
Prostitution in the land of the pure – The Express Tribune Blog
By putting a stigma on such children, it is pouring salt in their wounds. And it is our Dharma to ensure ssuch close-minded thinking is rooted out.
(Am sure similar links can be found wrt other conuntirs. Not attempting to target one country).
PS messages from readers were awesome. Lots of liberals in Pak soviety. Good for them.
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
It's how it is. Pardon me if I sound naive; isn't it true that you would love to go for a zero meter vehicle instead of used one? It goes for all in all such matters, virginity included. Pride is associated with it as well. Personally speaking, when we talk about virginity, it is a complex world of emotions which comes into action and there are endless questions which can not be answered in simple terms hence we prefer virginity - to avoid discomforts!
1) Are you comparing a woman to a car? 2) Shouldn't that go both ways? Why is it important that woman must be virgin...to please the God, or her to be a husband? Shouldn't same rule applied to a man, too? And if pious men go to heave and get virgin women, what about pious women? Don't they deserve virgins of their own?
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
Marriage is a social/religious contract between 2 people. It does not change biology. A child born w/o that contract between his parents is not at fault nor is any less important than a child born in a wedlock.
In the US
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/unmarry.htm
Unmarried Childbearing
(Data are for the U.S.)
Number of live births to unmarried women: 1,633,471
Birth rate for unmarried women: 47.6 births per 1,000 unmarried women aged 15-44 years
Percent of all births to unmarried women: 40.8%
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
Marriage is a social/religious contract between 2 people. It does not change biology. A child born w/o that contract between his parents is not at fault nor is any less important than a child born in a wedlock.
Agree, but don't you think that such children face psychological problems in most of the societies and if contracts are legalized before bringing such children in the world, a society can address such psychological problems.
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
Agree, but don't you think that such children face psychological problems in most of the societies and if contracts are legalized before bringing such children in the world, a society can address such psychological problems.
Not in developed countries where marriage is seen as a relic of past. As data shows in previous post, 41% of children born in the US are out of wedlock. This data probably does not include gay and lesbian parents.
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
Really? statistics from the developed world say otherwise:
Child - Parent Relationship and Potential Problems | Doctor | Patient.co.uk
**2.
Drinking problems. **Teenagers living in single-parent households are more likely to abuse alcohol and at an earlier age compared to children reared in two-parent households
A study of 156 victims of child sexual abuse found that the majority of the children came from disrupted or single-parent homes; only 31 percent of the children lived with both biological parents.
**Suicidal Tendencies. **In a study of 146 adolescent friends of 26 adolescent suicide victims, teens living in single-parent families are not only more likely to commit suicide but also more likely to suffer from psychological disorders, when compared to teens living in intact families.
Statistically, a child in a single-parent household is far more likely to experience violence, commit suicide, continue a cycle of poverty, become drug dependent, commit a crime or perform below his peers in education.
According to the Single Parent Success Foundation, a national nonprofit that encourages educational opportunities for single parents:
• 63 percent of suicides nationwide are individuals from single-parent families.
• 75 percent of children in chemical dependency hospitals are from single-parent families.
• More than half of all youths incarcerated in the U.S. lived in one-parent families as a child.
Recently, a 16-year-old boy killed his single mother with a claw hammer because she took away his Play Station. Ninety students at a Memphis high school are either pregnant or lactating as we speak. Baby mamas are brawling at Chuck-E-Cheese over trifling baby daddies. Well-fed fourth grade black boys can’t read as well hungry, poor white boys. The C.D.C. recently conducted a study that said family structure can negatively influence children’s health.
http://madamenoire.com/42945/time-to-get-serious-about-the-73-percent-out-of-wedlock-birth-rate/
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
But, where does it say marriage and single-parent household is related. I.e who says two parents have to be married to 'live together' or help raise child?
Re: Importance of virginity in major religions
^ good point. I thought we were discussing out of wedlock "illegal children". Some of these kids may be raised in single parent household. Some may be adopted by a married COUPLE. Hence would fall out of the stats presented. Moreover, some kids born "legally" by society approved and sanctioned marriage may end up in single point household. Thus some of these stats refer to "legal" children.
This is a tired argument from the far Right in US. That a 2 parent household is best. They preach moral "values" and berate those without "family values".
As for incarceration rate, the data are skewed due to the e horbitantly high incarceration rate of African American males. Which is more due to racial profiling.
The point here is not to state the obvious - that a two parent household is healthier. Point is - NOT TO ADD STIGMA TO INNOCENT CHILDREN WHO ARE BORN OUT OF WEDKOCK - ILLEGALLY.