[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MiniMe: *
So what about the countries, which are based on religion, Israel for example, was created for the Jews from day one. So now by defending Israel's physical borders they are also defending Judaism. When a US citizen goes to Israel and joins the IDF to defend Israel why do you think he is doing that, because he loves freedom, no, because he is a Jew and he is defending his religion. So even if you have muslims in Israel today that doesn’t change the very nature and reason for the creation of that country. Other than a small minority the vast Jewish population of the world defends and supports Israel for the sake of Judaism and not for the sake of Israel.
Same can be said about Pakistan, the country was created as a separate homeland for the muslims of subcontinent. So for a vast majority, being a Muslim first is a fact based on which a whole country was created.
[/QUOTE]
indian muslim share faith not land with pakistan. there is no automatic citzenship rights in pakistan.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
Pakistan was created out of regions which happened to have a Muslim majority.. so it'd be easier for them to practice their religion.. I wasn't created JUST for Muslims and minorities were definitely part of the bigger picture..
sadly the Mullahs can't live without creating divisions among people..when they are done with people of other religions they strat amongst themselves creating 'madhabs' and scholarly affiliations.
I see the majority of people longing for an Ummah passport are ones who probably were never even associated with Pakistan in any capacity.
[/QUOTE]
Funny, I remember reading on my passport Islamic Republic of Pakistan. If Pakistan studies serves me right, this nation is based on Islamic ideologies. Sadly Pakistan and Islam are hardly synonymous anymore. Yet some patriots who wish to show their love for Pakistan in the form of living abroad, forget this fact. Maybe because they, sitting 3000 miles away, have lost touch with Pakistan?
Real insight....
[QUOTE] Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
Pakistan was created out of regions which happened to have a **Muslim majority.. so it'd be easier for them to **practice their religion.. **It wasn't created JUST for Muslims* and minorities were definitely part of the bigger picture..
[/QUOTE]
PA, the issue here is that we were muslims before there was Pakistan, and Pakistan was created for Muslims, so just by having a country based on religion doesn’t mean that your country (nationalism) can surpass your religion.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MiniMe: *
So by your statement can it be siad that you are a muslim first and then a Pakistani?
[/QUOTE]
No.
Pakistan is a country and not a religion. Why the two are being compared is beyond me... People of all faiths live in Pakistan. Loyalty to Pakistan comes first for every Pakistani. The people who always thought that they were Muslim first and that country came second were the ones who never wanted a Pakistan.
Since my words are not resonating with you guys, here is what Quiad-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah had to say about this subject:
“You are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed – that has nothing to do with the business of the State... We are starting in the days when there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, we are all citizens and equal citizen of one State... Now I think you should keep that in front as our ideal, and you will find that in course of time Hindu will cease to be Hindu and Muslims will cease to be Muslims – not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual but in the political sense as citizen of the State”.
let me say it again, where did anybody mention Pakistan is a religion. The point is that Pakistan is a country which was created on the name of religion. Religion was the bases upon which this country was created, for muslim to freely practice thier faith. It dosent mean that other people with different religions can not live or practice thier religion, this is not what is being discussed here.
So now if a country is being created in the name of the religion, should the country deny its reason of being? No, thats why you were/are a Muslim first and then a Pakistani.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xguru: *
1. Iran or Afghanistan were to invade Pakisan, will you go out and resist such an attack? Would you kill an invading Muslim army to protect Pakistan?
[/quote]
so are you implying that if one was to put religion first one will not stop any one who proclaims to be a Muslim from killing one’s fellow Muslim and non-Muslim citizens and take the away land and resources? If a Muslim is being wronged by another Muslim by all means stop them and make the corrections needed, Islam does not say that be on the receiving end if the abuser is a Muslim.
You might look at it as defending Pakistan and being patriotic and someone else might look at it as justice and a humane thing to do that is to protect innocent people from invading forces regardless of them being Muslims or not.... that is the whole problem with nationalism, we get hung-up about "our" land...
This argument about Islam or Pakistan being first is very interesting. There are million who believe that Islam comes first, and yet there are some misguided who think that nationalism comes first. Only time will tell whose idea will prevail.
As far as I believe, there is a difference between loving our country and our ideals which emanate from Islam. Yes we love our country so much, but at the same time, our religion has its own demands which call for the beautiful concept of unity of mankind in the most beautiful form "ummah". According to this concept which all human beings must love (according to my belief) , never would we be selfish enough to sacrifice or expolit (like being done by the eartly super powers of today) some other community in the world and Muslims in particular. This is what real love for humanity is all about! After all we are all children of Adam (as) and particularly bonded together as Muslims by a way of life called Islam.
This religion Islam, which we proclaim to be followers of does demand from us that we help, protect and love each other as Muslims. We must not do injustice and let not injustice be done to us. As a community, like other communities we are tied together with faith, whicle others in the world are joined together on the basis of races. The funny thing is that , some people do not object to the idea of unity on the basis of race, yet denounce this idea of unity which transcends all boundaries, races and colors. The world and its people sure are amazing. :)
For the time being, atleast respect each other's views instead of insulting the others. I always thought there extremism was only amongst the "religious" people, and here we see educated, supposedly secular, and maybe well mannered people living in the West (who started this thread) imposing their views in the most unmannerful way. So much with your enlightened moderation in which anything from Islam becomes a menace for such "modern" people!
I doubt such people will even give Islam a secondary priority. If Pakistan is first for them, then culture could be second, business/job could be third, family could be forth, their desires could be five and the list goes on and in the last they might put Islam as something that requires their minimum attention.
Allah Ta'ala says in the Qur'an:
Say: If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline: or the dwellings in which ye delight - are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious.
(9:24)
These are some of the worst Mullhatic Arrabob responses! 3% of Pakistani minorities do matter when it comes to their safety and well-being. The passport never said "Mullahtic Arrabob Republic of Pakistan". Instead it should be treated as the Peaceful Republic of Pakistan and Pakistani majority Sunnis should behave as such. That is if they give any more value than 2 cents to Islam (means peace).
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hijaazi: *
That doesen't matter. .....3 % hardly matter.
Look outside the passport, the cover it says and will always say:
ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN
[/QUOTE]
And K-2 where does Allah SWT says that Passport of Pakistan should have a column for religion?
Or which Aya of Quran-e-Pak says that Pakistani-Shias should be bombed, Pakistani-Ahmadis should be harassed, and Pakistani-Christians should be incarcerated?
Oh K-2, fear Allah and quit misquoting Quran for your nefarious hateful interpretations. Otherwise you will be in the company of Mullahtic Arrabobs at the bottom level of hell.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by K-2: *
.....are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision [to destroy you]:
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
These are some of the worst Mullhatic Arrabob responses! 3% of Pakistani minorities do matter when it comes to their safety and well-being. The passport never said "Mullahtic Arrabob Republic of Pakistan". Instead it should be treated as the Peaceful Republic of Pakistan and Pakistani majority Sunnis should behave as such. That is if they give any more value than 2 cents to Islam (means peace).
And K-2 where does Allah SWT says that Passport of Pakistan should have a column for religion?
Or which Aya of Quran-e-Pak says that Pakistani-Shias should be bombed, Pakistani-Ahmadis should be harassed, and Pakistani-Christians should be incarcerated?
Oh K-2, fear Allah and quit misquoting Quran for your nefarious hateful interpretations. Otherwise you will be in the company of Mullahtic Arrabobs at the bottom level of hell.
Damn Mullahtic followers of Arrabobs.
[/QUOTE]
Dream on ..... You suit a circus or a comedy program more than this thread.
Hey antiobl, what an utter frustration... Oooo let me give you a hug. Come on man relax. You are acting more like matoo (i.e. according to your definition)
Plus why did you put "(to destroy you)" when it is not mentioned exactly like that in the Ayah. Rather than me calling you like 'nefarious', etc, you are all ready to attack me. And I am thinking what did I do that my lovely brother is so angry at me. 'hosala karo yaar'
Muslim first all the way here, before being a Paki or English or British or any other identity. I love my homeland but I'm not nationalistic, I don't feel any sort of blind solidaritory with people just because they are from the same country as me neither do I lap up the **** our leasders spew like a loyal dog, Muslims and Mu'mins wherever they maybe from are dearer to me than Pakistani Kaafirs (I spent 3+ childhood years amongst them), in the name of love for Pakistan I will not defend the massacre of my Bengali brothers carried out by some arseholes who happened to be Pakistani neither will I hate my Muslim brothers from India because they happen to be from the enemy country. A Muslims love, hatred, solidaritory, enmity is for Allah's sake alone, anyone who puts any idenity before Islam isn't much of a Muslim.
is it me or most Pakistan haters and ‘Ummah’ lovers here happen to be a product of Middle Eastern schools or madrassahs.. i mean most haven’t probably lived in Pakistan long enough to even qualify as Pakistanis
Their “na ghar ka na ghat ka” inferiority complexes generate animosity towards Pakistan.
Well if u hate Pakistan that much then get the eff out and stay in the Arabobo land as rafeeqs and miskeens..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Raihan: *
I'm a Muslim and that's my identity.
....
[/QUOTE]
OK!
Do you carry an ID card that says you are a Muslim?
If so who is the issuing authority?
We are talking about a document that bears your picture and other info.
And the same document says that you do not belong to a country but to some vague group.
Don't tell me you don't need to carry an ID. That simply shows you are living in the past by some 150 years.
