Religion doesn’t issue you a passport, or an ID, but a country does. You can not be a Budhist first and Cambodian second either.
Religion is a metaphysical thingy, something you practice. A country is a physical entity where you live. Whenever you put your country second, you become a traitor.
:k:
well said
I would say the same, that im a muslim first then canadian/pakistani, but i wouldnt go as far as to hurt my own country in the name of religion. This mindset comes into play when a certain culture of your country or things of that sort contradict with islam but to go around and gun down your own country mates for islam's sake doesnt fall into this category. And besides, didn't muhammed PBUH himself teach us to be true to the country we live in, regardless how it might be???
Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Whenever you put your country second, you become a traitor.
[/QUOTE]
using the same logic that you prescribe to, some can declare people who put country first and Islam second non-Muslims or something .... aren't we becoming too liberal and careless with these terms, Non-Muslims, Traitors etc. ?
... for some it might be their country first and for some Islam.... and none of these make you a non-Muslim or a Traitor. We don't have to go to extremes to prove our love for one or the other.. you do what you like and I do what I like... just learn to respect others and their beliefs and don't force your ideology down other's throats.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by I'm Kool: *
And besides, didn't muhammed PBUH himself teach us to be true to the country we live in, regardless how it might be???
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Any ahadith or historic events to back this up?
you have accused the rasul:saw: of saying something with out proof, what if what you say is false? are you not guilty of spreading lies on behalf of rasul :saw:???
as people who put religion over country are traitors
those who put nation before islam are kafirs. simple as that…
Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Religion doesn't issue you a passport, or an ID, but a country does. You can not be a Budhist first and Cambodian second either.
Religion is a metaphysical thingy, something you practice. A country is a physical entity where you live. Whenever you put your country second, you become a traitor.
[/QUOTE]
right on
Re: Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChaChoo: *
........ for some it might be their country first and for some Islam.... ...
[/QUOTE]
On philosophical level that may be OK.
The reality however shows us that Pakistani-Shias are bombed, Pakistani-Ahmadis are incarcerated, and Pakistani-Christians are harassed by those who do not put country first.
Happy Ramzan. Peace on Earth
Re: Re: Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
On philosophical level that may be OK.
The reality however shows us that Pakistani-Shias are bombed, Pakistani-Ahmadis are incarcerated, and Pakistani-Christians are harassed by those who do not put country first.
Happy Ramzan. Peace on Earth
[/QUOTE]
how about biharis
Re: Re: Re: Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
....how about biharis
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What about'em?
Check with King Lallu Parsad please.
Happy Ramzan. Peace on Earth
Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Religion doesn't issue you a passport, or an ID, but a country does. You can not be a Budhist first and Cambodian second either.
Religion is a metaphysical thingy, something you practice. A country is a physical entity where you live. Whenever you put your country second, you become a traitor.
[/QUOTE]
I would agree with you here. If you don't put your country first than you are a traitor. Religion has got nothing to do with loyalty to one's country. Pakistan has Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, etc etc. Everyone should put their country first. If they don't than there will be no Pakistan and these so called people who say Muslim first and Pakistan second can then go into the Arabian Sea...
So what about the countries, which are based on religion, Israel for example, was created for the Jews from day one. So now by defending Israel's physical borders they are also defending Judaism. When a US citizen goes to Israel and joins the IDF to defend Israel why do you think he is doing that, because he loves freedom, no, because he is a Jew and he is defending his religion. So even if you have muslims in Israel today that doesn’t change the very nature and reason for the creation of that country. Other than a small minority the vast Jewish population of the world defends and supports Israel for the sake of Judaism and not for the sake of Israel.
Same can be said about Pakistan, the country was created as a separate homeland for the muslims of subcontinent. So for a vast majority, being a Muslim first is a fact based on which a whole country was created.
Re: Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xguru: *
…. these so called people who say Muslim first and Pakistan second can then go into the Arabian Sea...
[/QUOTE]
This is the mentality that is dividing the nation today and fueling the ideologies of extremists who prefer violence …. Unless we learn to respect and understand that not everyone has the same approach and thinking and values as I do we will continue to face the issues that we face today....
Nationalism is overrated anyway… people should use common sense and good judgment when making decisions concerning religion and issues concerning your “own” land… if lands gives you an identity and a place to live our belief as Muslims is that so does Islam, it gives you values, a way of life, an identity, and at the end a permanent place to live…
To think some people in here place a jhanda or a piece of land higher on their list of priorities than their faith. Speaks volumes of their Iman. No wonder Muslims are in such a pathetic state of affairs today.
Re: Re: Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChaChoo: *
This is the mentality that is dividing the nation today and fueling the ideologies of extremists who prefer violence …. Unless we learn to respect and understand that not everyone has the same approach and thinking and values as I do we will continue to face the issues that we face today....
Nationalism is overrated anyway… people should use common sense and good judgment when making decisions concerning religion and issues concerning your “own” land… if lands gives you an identity and a place to live our belief as Muslims is that so does Islam, it gives you values, a way of life, an identity, and at the end a permanent place to live…
[/QUOTE]
Don't just take one line out of my response and comment on it. Comment on my entire post. If you read my entire post you will understand my position better. I am not against religious freedom and I am definately not trying to fuel extremism or violence. What I am trying to say is that Pakistan is not Islam. Pakistan is a country where people of many faiths live. All people need to be allowed to practice their faith freely. The whole idea of Pakistan was to create a country so that it's Muslim majority could live in it and practice their religion freely. Read what the Quaid had to say about Pakistan.
Religious extremists have never brought prosperity to any country. Only when the rights of all are respected and people allowed to live and work freely do societies prosper.
Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Religion doesn't issue you a passport, or an ID, but a country does. You can not be a Budhist first and Cambodian second either.
Religion is a metaphysical thingy, something you practice. A country is a physical entity where you live. Whenever you put your country second, you become a traitor.
[/QUOTE]
Expect you to say something of the sort.
When you stand infront of Allah ,wave your passport.Maybe it'll grant you entrance into jannah.
Although if I were you, I would have my doubts.
Re: Re: Re: Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xguru: *
The whole idea of Pakistan was to create a country so that it's Muslimmajority could live in it and practice their religion freely.
[/QUOTE]
So by your statement can it be siad that you are a muslim first and then a Pakistani?
Pakistan was created out of regions which happened to have a Muslim majority.. so it'd be easier for them to practice their religion.. I wasn't created JUST for Muslims and minorities were definitely part of the bigger picture..
sadly the Mullahs can't live without creating divisions among people..when they are done with people of other religions they strat amongst themselves creating 'madhabs' and scholarly affiliations.
I see the majority of people longing for an Ummah passport are ones who probably were never even associated with Pakistan in any capacity.
Re: imma muslim first... and pakistani 2nd.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Whenever you put your country second, you become a traitor.
[/QUOTE]
So if its in the US and UKs interest to attack Pakistan for a 'noble' cause, (lets say to overthrow a dictator, kill some 'terrorists' and establish a free and democratic society), then the muslims living there should support them?
would u expect the poor Bengalis working in Karachi to support Pakistan if they have a war with Bangladesh? or the Afghanis supporting Afghanistan?