Imam

Society Religion & Philosophy
141

Re: Imam

Throughout the Qur'an, the chosen families of the Prophets (a.s.) before the time of Muhammad Rasoolullah (a.s.) are mentioned and discussed. Allah has told us of the selecting of the personalities who are included within these noble families:

"Surely Allah chose Adam and Nuh and the descendants of Ibrahim and the descendants of Imran above the nations. Offspring, one of the other; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing." (3:33-34)

The implication is such that there is a chosen lineage - a pure bloodline in which its members display a high level of excellence. It is not correct to assume that the term "descendants" is to be taken generally. Allah is speaking about an explicit group of exalted personalities. In fact, He has chosen them, as is seen in light of the clause "Surely Allah chose...". Allah would not choose a wrongdoer amongst these families as being one of those who are "above the nations".

Allah further says: "And We gave to him Ishaq and Yaqoub; each did We guide, and Nuh did We guide before, and of his descendants, Dawood and Sulaiman and Ayub and Yusuf and Haroun; and thus do We reward those who do good (to others). And Zakariya and Yahya and Isa and Ilyas; every one was of the good; And Ismail and Al-Yasha and Yunus and Lut; and every one We made to excel (in) the worlds: And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren, and We chose them and guided them into the right way." (6:84-86)

It is a chosen lineage. The members who are within this lineage are chosen by Allah specifically and are guided by Him.

Allah also shows us in the Qur'an the roles that these family members played in the lives of their respective Prophets (a.s.). For example, the Qur'an discusses in many places the story of Nabi Musa (a.s.) and his brother Nabi Harun (a.s.). Or take, for example, the story of Nabi Ibrahim (a.s.) and his Ahlul'bayt (a.s.). There are many other examples in the Qur'an which relate the proximity and status of these chosen family members to the very Prophets (a.s.) themselves. The evidence is clear - it shows the importance of the elevated members of the families of these Prophets (a.s.) to their mission, which is to spread the the guidance of Allah.

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For Ibne Sadiq & Company it will be interesting to refer the following discussion taken some time back. Ibne Sadiq was an active prticipant in that also

/gs/religion-scripture/254355-who-family-prophet-mohammad-pbuh

143

Re: Imam

I wonder where the Danish is? not taking part in this debate

144

Re: Imam

now honestly, what are you people discussing here? what kind of debate is this? The meaning of Imam, which blood is chosen, which blood is worth nothing?

145

Re: Imam

^^ Mad

Please read up first before firing off questions

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*Has anyone read this detail account of the years from Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) death upto the death of H. Ali.?
*

*The Succession to Muhammad: A Study of the Early Caliphate *
by Wilferd Madelung (Author)

If yes, what do you think?

What would you do?
147

I was reading a review the other day. Following is what I find very interesting:

[quote]

Also in the Introduction is Madelung's discussion on who Muhammad thought was his successor - his cousin, Ali. Why? He argues that the obvious place to look for Muhammad's view on this matter is in the Qur'an. He launches into a commentary on the Qur'an and explains how it tells the stories of the prophets of old and how they were succeeded by their offspring or close kin. He also shows how the Qur'an gave a high station to the Prophet's family.

[quote]

"The Qur'an thus accorded the ahl al-bayt [lit. people of the house] of Muhammad an elevated position above the rest of the faithful, similar to the position of the families of the earlier prophets. God desired to purify them from all defilement. ...

Insofar as the Qur'an expresses the thoughts of Muhammad, it is evident that he could not have considered Abu Bakr his natural successor or have been pleased by his succession. The Qur'an certainly does not fully reflect Muhammad's views about the men and women surrounding him and his attitude toward them. Yet he could not have seen his succession essentially other than in the light of the narrations of the Qur'an about the succession of the earlier prophets, just as he saw his own mission as a prophet, the resistance of his people with which he met, and his ultimate success by divine grace in the light of the experience of the former prophets as related in the Qur'an. These earlier prophets considered it a supreme divine favour to be succeeded by their offspring or close kin for which they implored their Lord. ...
The Qur'an advises the faithful to settle some matters by consultation, but not the succession to prophets. That, according to the Qur'an, is settled by divine election, and God usually chooses their successors, whether they become prophets or not, from their own kin." (pp16-17)

[/quote]

[/quote]

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It should be called "devine Selection" instead of devine election. Quraan negate the concept of election throughout.

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Re: Imam

The Messenger of Allah declared: "It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere both of them, you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

Then the Messenger of Allah continued: "Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?" People cried and answered: "Yes, O' Messenger of God." Then Prophet (s) held up the hand of Ali and said: "Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla). O' God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him."

Immediately after the Prophet (s) finished his speech, the following verse of Holy Quran was revealed:

"Today I have perfected your religion and completed my bounty upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion." (Quran 5:3)

Be it Badr, Uhud or Khaibar,
We hear the cry, Haidar - Haidar.
We see his shining sword strike
the ones who Allah dislikes.

All those who even dare
to fight him and aren't aware
of his valor - can't survive.
They shall lose their lives.

And there is one who claims to be
the greatest warrior of Arabia - but see
the mighty sword falls on him too.
Even though to challenge him were few.

The Muslims are struck with terror.
They can't conquer the fort of Khaibar.
Each attack they make is turned back.
The will to fight they utterly lack.

The one who Allah loves, then comes
and out of fear the enemy is numb.
He takes the standard in one hand
and leads this seemingly defeated band.

A group of losers, say the books of history
under his command proceed to their victory.
His advances no one can ever cut short.
Finally he conquers the impenetrable fort.

In another battle the Prophet is betrayed.
As his followers have become so afraid.
They leave him wounded and run away.
Kufr still seems to hold it's sway.

But there is Haidar e Karrar to aid him.
A lost battle, he will be able to win.
Whenever Asadullah will be there,
to fight Islam, no one shall dare.

These astonishing feats no one can hide,
as time and again he turns the tide.
A battle comes and a battle goes by
Islam's standard always remains high.

So when in Ghadir - he is proclaimed
Mawla - that Muslims should follow him.
The Prophet's mission is complete. He alone
can bear the burden of this throne.

Only he can feel the Muslim's needs,
make sure they perform good deeds,
and guide them to the path of salvation.
He deserves the rulership of this nation.

He has the understanding and wisdom
to be the Imam in Allah's kingdom.
He is the gateway to the city of knowledge
and above all he has the most courage,

which is seen by his extraordinary feats.
With his scholarly skills none can compete.
Admire his piety. He is not guided by greed.
The Prophet of Allah - only he can succeed.

Celebrity pics!!!!
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As-Salamu 'Alaykum

:bism:
**
Note:** the whole point of my arguments is to show the inconsistency in raafidha’s methodology and understanding of the ayaat.

this simply means that you don’t understand the Ahlus Shunnah’s stance about the infallibility of the Prophets (peace be upon them). When did we say that they don’t make mistakes, unlike your understanding of the Imams? Put it simply, why did Adam ('alayhi as-salam) had to leave the Jannah?

Ahlus Sunnah believe that the Prophets are infallible in regard to conveying the Message of Allah Ta’ala or committing major sins or being persistent after making a mistake. They’re human beings not gods, unlike your doctrine of Imamah!

There’s a difference between seeking forgiveness and seeking perfectness; seeking forgiveness doesn’t mean that you’re perfect! Forgiveness is only seek by non-perfect being; so, this actually can be an evidence against you as this is in accordance with our 'aqeedh about Prophets. However, it doesn’t make sense if a perfect being is seeking perfectness. In addition, you believe that Prophets inferior to Imams so if they make du’as, it doesn’t prove that Imams can also do the same!

but you believe that not every Prophet is an Imam as Imamah is a higher status than the Prophethood. You missed my whole point and simply struggling with words. I showed that your whole doctrine is inconsistent. Let’s briefly look at your doctrine:

  1. Allah Ta’ala Himself chooses an Imam without ANY external interference

  2. A future Imam already knows when he’ll become an Imam

  3. An Imam is infallible and perfect and at higher level than a Prophet. Moreover, he doesn’t make a single mistake.

  4. The Prophets, who were not Imams, lacked in something in which an Imam didn’t

  5. The normal Muslims can’t make du’a to become an Imam as he isn’t the chosen one

You say the ayah 74 of Surah al-Furqan specifically relates to Imams/Imamah but then your understanding of the ayah is not consistent with your doctrine. I present following arguments/questions, please answer them instead of dancing around:

  1. The du’a is an external interference! What’s the point of this du’a when you belief that Allah Ta’ala grants Imamah to deserving people without ANY external interference?

  2. The infallible Imams by their status of infallibility know that they’ll become Imam eventually. In addition, you believe that the Prophet (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) has foretold about the 12 Imams. So why does an Imam has to make du’a to Allah Ta’ala for becoming an Imam when we know the du’a has nothing to do with Allah Ta’ala pointing him an Imam?

  3. Why does an infallible Imam need to make du’a to become infallible? If he’s already an Imam and hence perfect, what’s the point of seeking perfectness?

This is different from the Prophets (peace be upon them), their du’as are not asking for their own Prophethood as they’re already Prophets.

  1. straw man, when did I say that according to your belief normal Muslim can’t make du’a for forgivness of their sins. Read it carefully what I said and note the difference within the proper context.

  2. You’re contradicting yourself! You believe that the ayah pertains to Imams/Imamah specifically. Because if it doesn’t then any Muslim outside of Ibrahim’s (peace be upon him) progeny can be an Imam.

Lastly, I’m still waiting for an answer to this;

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AllahkaBanda, you are a Wahabi and i do not know much about their idealogy. But Insha Allah, will try to address you when i have spare time.