Imam

[ramesha]

@AllahkaBanda

As-Salamu 'Alaykum

**
Note:** the whole point of my arguments is to show the inconsistency in raafidha’s methodology and understanding of the ayaat.

this simply means that you don’t understand the Ahlus Shunnah’s stance about the infallibility of the Prophets (peace be upon them). When did we say that they don’t make mistakes, unlike your understanding of the Imams? Put it simply, why did Adam ('alayhi as-salam) had to leave the Jannah?

Ahlus Sunnah believe that the Prophets are infallible in regard to conveying the Message of Allah Ta’ala or committing major sins or being persistent after making a mistake. They’re human beings not gods, unlike your doctrine of Imamah!

There’s a difference between seeking forgiveness and seeking perfectness; seeking forgiveness doesn’t mean that you’re perfect! Forgiveness is only seek by non-perfect being; so, this actually can be an evidence against you as this is in accordance with our 'aqeedh about Prophets. However, it doesn’t make sense if a perfect being is seeking perfectness. In addition, you believe that Prophets inferior to Imams so if they make du’as, it doesn’t prove that Imams can also do the same!

but you believe that not every Prophet is an Imam as Imamah is a higher status than the Prophethood. You missed my whole point and simply struggling with words. I showed that your whole doctrine is inconsistent. Let’s briefly look at your doctrine:

1. Allah Ta’ala Himself chooses an Imam without ANY external interference

2. A future Imam already knows when he’ll become an Imam

3. An Imam is infallible and perfect and at higher level than a Prophet. Moreover, he doesn’t make a single mistake.

4. The Prophets, who were not Imams, lacked in something in which an Imam didn’t

5. The normal Muslims can’t make du’a to become an Imam as he isn’t the chosen one

You say the ayah 74 of Surah al-Furqan specifically relates to Imams/Imamah but then your understanding of the ayah is not consistent with your doctrine. I present following arguments/questions, please answer them instead of dancing around:

1. The du’a is an external interference! What’s the point of this du’a when you belief that Allah Ta’ala grants Imamah to deserving people without ANY external interference?

2. The infallible Imams by their status of infallibility know that they’ll become Imam eventually. In addition, you believe that the Prophet (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) has foretold about the 12 Imams. So why does an Imam has to make du’a to Allah Ta’ala for becoming an Imam when we know the du’a has nothing to do with Allah Ta’ala pointing him an Imam?

3. Why does an infallible Imam need to make du’a to become infallible? If he’s already an Imam and hence perfect, what’s the point of seeking perfectness?

This is different from the Prophets (peace be upon them), their du’as are not asking for their own Prophethood as they’re already Prophets.

1. straw man, when did I say that according to your belief normal Muslim can’t make du’a for forgivness of their sins. Read it carefully what I said and note the difference within the proper context.

2. You’re contradicting yourself! You believe that the ayah pertains to Imams/Imamah specifically. Because if it doesn’t then any Muslim outside of Ibrahim’s (peace be upon him) progeny can be an Imam.

Lastly, I’m still waiting for an answer to this;

AllahkaBanda, you are a Wahabi and i do not know much about their idealogy. But Insha Allah, will try to address you when i have spare time.