Imam

[righteous]

@Ibn_Sadique

**
righteous** - you have your right to bask in your delusions of glory.

I’m sorry that I failed to address your post.

In fact the answer to your post lies in the post of brother psyah

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/6350967-post10.html

Now i’ll tackle your ‘knock out’ post

I am not stuck on 12ers concept of Imamate – it’s that you are pushing it forward exactly - what the 12ers believe in.

Regarding Hz. Ibrahim (as) refer to post of** brother psyah **– you have your answer

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/6350967-post10.html

Every Muslim believes that Prophethood is divinely ordained – Imamate is belief of 10% of Muslims ONLY.

If your assumption is that Imamate in Quran means same as that of Shia version I deny it. So do 90% of Muslims

And I am not denying Word of Allah (swt) be rest assured.

Were not the Progeny of Hz. Ibrahim (as) Imams to only Bani Israel except for Prophet Muhammad (saw)?

And the Imamate you have in mind is ‘Universal Imamate’.

And this is only with Prophet Muhammad (saw) and Imam Mahdi (ra) will have it when his is around.

Anybody who is not from progeny of Hz. Ibrahin (as) can also beseech Allah to bestow leadership on them and their progeny.

Read the ayah below:

“And whoever repents and does good has truly turned to Allah with an (acceptable) conversion; Those who witness no falsehood, and, if they pass by futility, they pass by it with honorable (avoidance); Those who, when they are admonished with the Signs of their Lord, droop not down at them as if they were deaf or blind; Those who say: ‘Our Lord, grant us the coolness of our eyes in our wives and children, and make us leaders (imams) of the pious.’” 25:71-74:

Dare you to deny the above ayah!!!

Your post makes false assumptions and refers to the post of PSYAH which in turn refers to someone’s tafseer.

This is not how you answer. You are making you argument assuming two things, one I am talking about 12er concept of Imamate (however you understand it) and the concept of Imamate by 12ers is incorrect.

Making false assumptions against your opponents in a debate and then concluding you are right is not how you do it.

Go read my post again and drop the notion of 12ers.

My argument is as follows:

I am saying Quran states that Imamat or leadership is divinely ordained and God promised it to selected ones from the progeny of Abraham (who are also not wrong doers (ZALIM))

I am glad that you have accepted the concept of Universal Imamat. There can be leaders of communities, tribes, nations etc but they have to follow the universal (divinely appointed) Imam.

I am not going to deny any Ayah of Quran. Infact I will thank you for bringing it up since it is relevant to this discussion.

Surah Furqan is the standard or criterion means the criteria by which people will be judged so it is absolutely spot on and relevant to our discussion. Please remember my original quote from QUran “But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers.” WIthin the Aal of Abraham this is how people will be evaluated by Allah for leadership

P.S. Please read history properly. Hazrat Mohammad (SAAW) is from the progeny of Abraham as well, he is not an exception. Abraham had three sons, Ishaq, Ismail and Madyan. Off these 3 only Ishaq and Ismail were Prophets and Madyan had prophet Syub in his Progeny. Bani Israel are from the Progeny of Ishaaq and Mohammad (SAAW) is from the Progeny of Ismail.