[QUOTE]
Originally posted by JaniUK:
Asalm-u-elikum!
I am Asad from UK.I am very pleased to see so many real belivers here,it overjoyed me that shia"s are still alive in this world.well its nice to see different views of people. and i am here also to show my view.well first why Imam Mehdi(a.s)will come? well mine answer is that when the world will full of zulam and munafaqat, and then people will pray to god and plz send some one who can help us and save us from this cruelity,and Imam Mehdi(a.s) will arrive First in kahan kabba and as many books said that he will arranged the army of 313 people who were finest from this world that can be called as true muslims for fight with dajjal.when Imam Mehdi(a.s) will arrive everyone in this world hear in their coming news in thier own language that Imam Mehdi(a.s) is here and some will believe with this Mojaza but the ones who will not believe will become muslims when Hazzart issa(a.s) will came down from the fourth Asman and will pray namaz behind Mehdi and from seeing this christions will become muslims after this a long battle with un-belivers with dajjal and the ones who r also in muslims religion can be called as munafiqs.
Note= Hazaart Isaa(a.s) will also maryy as God give him a promise.
Muslims brothers u can not get every information on these forums but u have consider urself for studing such books of islam whom can give u guide and information . The best way is to read quran with meanings and Tafseer.we r not the real muslims but we have to try and if Imam Mehdi(a.s) is slecting 313 people of army only from this world what u think that were we stand ..?
May allah forgive us all.
allah hafiz/QUOT
Salam to u too brother …u r right exactly what i have read…is nice to know that there r so many shia brother still alive
i have heard that imam mehdi has borne and he will show up when he 'll reach the age of 40....
he'll be doing tawaf around the kaaba...when some ppl will recognize him and tell him that u r Imam mehdi....then dajjal will come...and about dajjal...he'll be blind with one eye....and he would be a big musician...its said that every muslim should have masoor daal in their house every time...coz when dajjal will show up...yeh dal kinda uchalna shroo kar de gi....and taht wuld be a sign taht dajjal is here....
Hazrat Esa will come after him and he'll kill him ...in saudia that'll happen...
(i read all this from a book "bahashti zevar)..if somebody would know this book...read the park...."Qyamat ki nishaniayan aur un ka haal..."
[quote]
Originally posted by !~!ZahrA!~!:
**
its said that every muslim should have masoor daal in their house every time...coz when dajjal will show up...yeh dal kinda uchalna shroo kar de gi....and taht wuld be a sign taht dajjal is here....
Hazrat Esa will come after him and he'll kill him ...in saudia that'll happen...
**
[/quote]
This Masoor ki daal, would it evolve this ability to jump, if thats the meaning of uchalna, when the time of the dajjal comes?
What significance can the daal have to do with the dajjal?
And the Muslim who don't have daal, when the dajjal turns up, what ever will happen to them? Can you tell me where did you get this book and who's the author. thanx.
And what would happen if you've only got Chicken Jalfrayzee in the house! Would the Chicken start to also jump and notify you of the emergence of the Dajaal!
Better still, how about a lamb chop!!!!!
I've heard good ones in my days, but this Daal Dish beats them all!!
The question I need to ask myself is:
Is it good to be back at the Forum, or is it a Curse in disguise???
I suppose the answer is that Progression and Regression will always work in harmony.
Some of us Progress, whilst some of us Regress!!!
I'm sure each Guppie can work out for themselves which category they fall in!!!!!
Salaam and welcome!!!!
[quote]
Originally posted by Bismah:
** This Masoor ki daal, would it evolve this ability to jump, if thats the meaning of uchalna, when the time of the dajjal comes?
What significance can the daal have to do with the dajjal?
And the Muslim who don't have daal, when the dajjal turns up, what ever will happen to them? Can you tell me where did you get this book and who's the author. thanx.
**
[/quote]
somebody told me about it....i'll ask my islamic teacher ...then i'll tell you .....
I tried to search for Mahdi in the Quran
And
in Sahih Bukhari (for the ones who aren't satisfied)
--can't find anything about him in either.
If someone can help.
Hadiths :
Hazrat Isa Al-Masih(pbuh)
- "By Him in Whose Hand is my life, Ibn Maryam (Jesus Christ) would certainly pronounce Talbiyah for Hajj or for Umrah or for both (simultaneously as a Qarin) in the valley of Rawha." (Sahih Muslim, Book 7, No. 2877)
-"Allah will send Maseeh ibne Maryam (Messiah son of Mary). Thus he will descend near the White Eastern Minaret of Damascus, clad in two yellow sheets, leaning on the shoulders of two angels." (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 8, P. 192-193)
-"Hazrat Masih(SAW) will die after completing the duration he was destined to pass in the world and that Muslims would offer his funeral prayers and bury him next to the grave of the holy Prophet, Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar (RAs)." (Mishkat, P. 480)
-By Him in Whose Hand is my life, Ibn Maryam (Jesus Christ) would certainly pronounce Talbiyah for Hajj or for Umrah or for both (simultaneously as a Qarin) in the valley of Rawha. (Sahih Muslim, Book 7, No. 2877)
-"By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, Son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizyah (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no one will accept charitable gifts." (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 3, Book 34, No. 425)
- Mujammi Ibn Jariyah al-Ansari(RA) stated that he heard the Messenger of Allah(SAW) say: The son of Mary will kill the Anti-Christ (Dajjal) at the door of Ludda. Tirmidhi and Ahmad)
Hazrat Imam Mahdi
- The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs. (Tirmidhi Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207; also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa'id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra)
-Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99)
-Even if only a day remains for Qiyamah to come, yet Allah will surely send a man from my family who will fill this world with such justice and fairness, just as it initially was filled with oppression.(Abu Dawood)
-The promised Mahdi will be among my family. God will make the provisions for his emergence within a single night. (Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)
-Our Mahdi will have a broad forehead and a pointed (prominent) nose. He will fill the earth with justice as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will rule for seven years. (Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, p. 208; Fusul al-muhimma, p. 275)
-After the death of a Ruler there will be some dispute between the people. At that time a citizen of Madina will flee (from Madina) and go to Makkah. While in Makkah, certain people will approach him between Hajrul Aswad and Maqaame Ibraheem, and forcefully pledge their allegiance to him. Thereafter a huge army will proceed from Syria to attack him but when they will be at Baida, which is between Makkah and Madina, they will be swallowed into the ground. On seeing this, the Abdaals of Shaam as well as large numbers of people from Iraq will come to him and pledge their allegiance to him. Then a person from the Quraish, whose uncle will be from the Bani Kalb tribe will send an army to attack him, only to be overpowered, by the will of Allah. This (defeated) army will be that of the Bani Kalb. Unfortunate indeed is he who does not receive a share from the booty of the Kalb. This person (Imam Mahdi) will distribute the spoils of war after the battle. He will lead the people according to the Sunnat and during his reign Islam will spread throughout the world. He will remain till seven years (since his emergence). He will pass away and the Muslims will perform his Janazah salaat. (Abu Dawood)
-A group of my Ummah will fight for the truth until near the day of judgment when Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the leader of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus declines, saying: "No, Verily, among you Allah has made leaders for others and He has bestowed his bounty upon them. (Sahih Muslim)
The Messiah and the Mahdi
One and the Same Person
From the Traditions of the Holy Prophet it is evident that the Promised Messiah was to be a follower of the Holy Prophet. One Tradition tells us that
'the Mahdi is no other than the Messiah' [Ibn-e-Maja]
Another Tradition says:
'How would it be with you when the son of Mary will descend among you and you will have a leader raised from among you?" [bukhari, kitabul-anbiya, chapter nuzul isa bin maryam]
These two Traditions leave no doubt that the Messiah himself will be the Mahdi. He would lead followers of the Holy Prophet and would be one from among them, not an outsider. To think that the Messiah and the Mahdi are two different persons is wrong. It is against the clear indication in the Tradition: 'The Mahdi is no other than the Messiah.' It behoves good believers to ponder carefully over the utterances of the Holy Prophet. If the utterances seem contradictory, it is for us to try and resolve the contradictions. If the Holy Prophet said, on the one hand, that the Mahdi will appear before the Messiah, and the Messiah will then join the Mahdi and his followers in worship; and, on the other, that the Messiah himself is the Mahdi, what are we going to do? Accept one utterance and reject the other? Is it not rather our duty to consider the two utterances carefully and try to reconcile one to the other? The two utterances can be reconciled at once if we use one of them to interpret the other. It seems that the promise of the advent of the Messiah was couched in words which suggested that the Messiah and the Mahdi were two different persons. This suggestion is corrected by the Tradition which says 'No Mahdi but the Messiah' This Tradition makes it plain that the other Tradition is metaphorical. It means that a follower of the Holy Prophet will arise for the purpose of revivifying the world, but would not have that rank of a prophet. Then the promise relating to the second coming of Jesus will be fulfilled in his person and he will announce himself the Promised Messiah. The Tradition, therefore, tells us that the Promised One will start his career as a Muslim reformer who will become invested with the office of Messiah. Divine prophecies have to employ metaphors. They would convey very little otherwise.
If our interpretaion of these Traditions is not correct, then there are only two alternatives left for a seeker-after truth, both of them absurd and dangerous. Either, we admit that the Tradition, which describes the Messiah and the Mahdi as one and the same person, is not a true Tradition, or, we admit that the Messiah and the Mahdi are two different persons and that the intention of the Tradition is to point to a difference of spiritual significance in the two. It may mean that the true Mahdi would be the Messiah. The other, Mahdi would be insignificant compared with the Messiah. It would be like saying, "Nobody knows but so and so." When we say such a thing, we do not mean literally that nobody else knows. What we mean is that the given person knows very much more. However, both interpretations are dangerous. One requires us to treat, without good reasons, as spurious a Tradition which is a well authenticated one, true on all sound criteria. The other implies that the Mahdi, in comparison with the Messiah, will be as nothing. Such a thought would be contrary to the Traditions which teach that the Mahdi will be the Imam and the Messiah a follower who stands behind the Imam in a congregation. Both alternatives, therefore, are absurd. The only worthwhile interpretation we can put upon the Tradition is that they foretell the coming of a Messenger from among the followers of the Holy Prophet. This Messenger will first present himself as a reformer and later announce himself the Messiah of the prophecy. The same person will be the Mahdi as well as the Messiah. Except for this interpretation, there can be no plausible interpretation of the Traditions on the subject.
Seems some of you have your prophets mixed up.
Jesus Christ was a man of peace. It was Muhammed that was the warrior.
Jesus preached turning the other cheek, Muhammed killed and tortured Jews.
Christ asks God to forgive, while Muhammad utters a bitter curse.
Jesus had no slaves, he taught to do to others as you would have them do to you. Muhammed was a slaver. He owned and sold many slaves, both male and female.
Jesus healed women, forgave women, and encouraged women.
Muhammed told his male followers to beat their disobedient wives.
So you see, these hadiths or stories or wherever you get ridiculous theories like Jesus is going to come back as some great warrior are ridiculous. You are applying your violent and vengeful philosophies of what prophets should be to a man that was peaceful, forgiving and sinless.
Seminole
You seem to be living on cloud cuckoo land or have just returned from Mars!!
What's more annoying is the fact that your feeble comparison attempt is flawed from the offset and very naive at best.
We Muslims do not tend to differentiate one Prophet from another. All Messengers were the Messengers of God. Preaching the same Message.
You haven't even got the decency to dedicate one capter to Jesus or Mary in your Scriptures. Mathew, Mark, Luke and John seem to carry more authority than Jesus. This is the real fact as the current form of Christianity was founded on this basis.
You only gave women the right to marry , divorce, inheritance etc etc etc only a couple of hundred years ago if that. The word Meat Market, Domestic Violence and Pornography was surely not invented on the back of Islam.
Slavery was only abolished a few hundred years ago, but was initiated using the Bible as evidence and condonement. The curse of Canaan, son of Noah!!!!
The Crusaders were the most Barbaric humans ever, who even killed there own brethren and used the Bible as it's guidance.
Meet the Challenge of the Qur'aan or stay put!
The choice is yours.
I am comparing the teachings of the two men, not the followers. I do not claim that Christians throughout history have devoutly followed the teachings of Jesus Christ.
How can you say you don't differentiate between prophets? Why is every other Muslim named Muhammed? How many Muslims do you know named Jesus? You follow the teachings of Muhammed, not Jesus. I already posted a few of their differing views.
The only point to my post was to point out that Jesus was not the warrior, Muhammed was. So if anyone is going to use a sword on someone, it's not going to be Jesus. That goes against every principle he preached.
Seminole,
You are comparing the doctrines as understood by you. I will give you a detailed answer on all the comparisons that you made from my understanding, but let me quote you something from the New Testament & regarding peace & the message of Jesus!
[quote]
Matthew 10:
.
.
.
33 But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven.
*34 Don't assume that I came to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I came to turn A man against his father , a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. *
37 The person who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; the person who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 And whoever doesn't take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.
.
.
[/quote]
Please do comment!
Ahmedjee
Thanks for the chapter.
I quoted this chapter to one of my Christian friends some time last year on a similar discussion, and am yet to hear a reply.
Maybe Seminole will do proud his fellow people and answer sooner.
If you want to play "Scripture Wars" I suggest taking it up with Jerry Falwell, Jack Van Impe or some other Christian fundamentalist. My theological and spiritual discussions are not so narrowly defined.
What is the question or purpose of throwing around that Matthew verse? To imply that Jesus advocated violence? How many times is it mentioned in the Bible that Jesus preached nonviolence.
These verses are also from Matthew:
Matthew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.
Matthew 5
38: "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
39: "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40: "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.
41: "Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.
42: "Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
43: "You have heard that it was said, ' YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
44: "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
But I digress, quoting scripture. Bottom line: Jesus advocated peace.
It is quite hypocritical for literal fundamentalists (which is the majority of Muslims and the conservative Christians) to use the Bible for the parts they agree with and dismiss it for the parts they don't. How exactly do you know which parts of the Bible are authentic? I suppose there are one of those God given hadiths to tell you?
[quote]
Originally posted by zaksnoor:
The Messiah and the Mahdi
One and the Same Person**
From the Traditions of the Holy Prophet it is evident that the Promised Messiah was to be a follower of the Holy Prophet. One Tradition tells us that
'the Mahdi is no other than the Messiah' [Ibn-e-Maja]
Another Tradition says:
*'How would it be with you when the son of Mary will descend among you and you will have a leader raised from among you?" [bukhari, kitabul-anbiya, chapter nuzul isa bin maryam] *
These two Traditions leave no doubt that the Messiah himself will be the Mahdi. He would lead followers of the Holy Prophet and would be one from among them, not an outsider. To think that the Messiah and the Mahdi are two different persons is wrong. It is against the clear indication in the Tradition: 'The Mahdi is no other than the Messiah.'
[/quote]
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn’t the hadith talk about 2 people?..."How would it be with you when the son of Mary will descend among you and you will have a leader raised from among you?"
If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.
[quote]
Originally posted by google:
** Correct me if I am wrong but doesn’t the hadith talk about 2 people?..."How would it be with you when the son of Mary will descend among you and you will have a leader raised from among you?"
**
[/quote]
I think I've made my point clear in my second paragraph. Go back and read carefully!
Thanks
[quote]
Originally posted by zaksnoor:
**
I think I've made my point clear in my second paragraph. Go back and read carefully!
Thanks**
[/quote]
We(Sunnah Wal-Jammah) believe both in Imam Al-Mahdi and Hazrat Isa Al-Masih.
Ibn al-Jawzi said: If 'Isa were to lead prayers there would be a doubt in peoples minds on whether he would be leading as a representative or as an initiator of [new] law. Therefore, he would pray while being lead so that he is not clouded with doubt, from the point of the saying [of our prophet] “no prophet after me.” Also, by way of 'Isa’s prayer behind a man from this nation, happening at the end of time and near the Hour.
If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.
Seminole
You are right.
We Muslims fundamentaly believe in the Qur'aan and our Way of Life.
While you Christians conservatively believe in the Bible and your Way of Life.
Enough said!
A large majority of Muslims are heard saying that the advent of the Messiah and the Mehdi has been foretold in the Islamic tradition. BUT MOST PEOPLE HAVE NOT READ THESE NARRATIVES. They have only heard them from the mullah screaming in his usual high-pitched, topless stopless voice. Only a senseless mind can ascribe these insults to the holy prophet. Anyone with reason who reads these accounts in the so called Islamic books, will get amazed (or amused) at these contradictory, and ridiculously funny insults. A mind without reason and committed to blind following will, of course take it with a grain of salt.
You must read this link: