That’s true - (Our) Imam Abu Hanifa (rahimullah) did spend time with Imam Jaffar as Sadiq(ra) and some withhis father Imam Baqir (ra).
True to the Imams sayings Abu Hanifa was loyal to Shaikhain. Imam Malik (rahimullah) did the same I think - but they never became 12ers.
Can you name any Shia scohlar of repute who studied under this two great Imams (ra)?
That's true - (Our) Imam Abu Hanifa (rahimullah) did spend time with Imam Jaffar as Sadiq(ra) and some withhis father Imam Baqir (ra).
True to the Imams sayings Abu Hanifa was loyal to Shaikhain. Imam Malik (rahimullah) did the same I think - but they never became 12ers.
Can you name any Shia scohlar of repute who studied under this two great Imams (ra)?
Ofcourse they did not become 12ers because they started their own schools (fiqh). They did their ijtihad but i am not sure what gave them the authority to only c themselves having the necessary qualifications for independent reasoning in religious law? It seems that the interpretation of the doctrine as it had been laid down once and for all and the doors of ijtihad were closed. Why? Who gave them the authority? Dont you and the ulema of today have the better means of research than them?
And for you now all of a sudden Imam Jaffar as Sadiq (as) has gone from 'performing taqayya' to a 'great Imam'. Good to c u making progress, mashaAllah.
As for naming a shia scholars of repute to have studied under the Imams- Imam Sadiq (as) had time to establish a school and share his knowledge (given that Abbasids and Ummayas were busy trying to kill each other for the Khilafat). Imam Jaffar as Sadiq (as) had over 4,000 students studying at a time!As for the ethical value and virtue of Imam Jafar as Sadiq (as), it is enough to say that none of his students critiqued or found a weak point in his ilm or tadreesh (the ilm was given from Allah (swt) and it was Allah's blessing that they were the fountain head of knowledge).
Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)
^You can even say 40,000 but can you give some names.
As far no one critiqued him, i will disagree. Its said that early shiites were hesitant to accept him as Imam, he had to show them some miracles to establish himself.
That's true - (Our) Imam Abu Hanifa (rahimullah) did spend time with Imam Jaffar as Sadiq(ra) and some withhis father Imam Baqir (ra).
True to the Imams sayings Abu Hanifa was loyal to Shaikhain. Imam Malik (rahimullah) did the same I think - but they never became 12ers.
Can you name any Shia scohlar of repute who studied under this two great Imams (ra)?
well said bro:)
^You can even say 40,000 but can you give some names.
As far no one critiqued him, i will disagree. Its said that early shiites were hesitant to accept him as Imam, he had to show them some miracles to establish himself.
Indeed , problem is 2 fold
its hard to find who actually were the followers of imams [as per 12er defination] after baqir. 12er rijal themselves are divided to a great extent on this subject .As on one hand it was impossible for 12ers or even those sympathetic to Alids] to show their support for shiite cause because of state oppression as 12ers rightly claim] but on the other hand its also equally plausible that support for imams of Husayn's linaege meant nothing more than political support but this was interpreted later by 12er scholars as a seperate religious doctrine.And for this "political support" most sympathizers of Alid cause including sunni scholars suffered greatly.
Usual 12er argumentation relies heavily on taqqiyah which is used to explain any discrepencies that arise between their concept of imamate and the most commonly accepted historical accounts.
^You can even say 40,000 but can you give some names.
As far no one critiqued him, i will disagree. Its said that early shiites were hesitant to accept him as Imam, he had to show them some miracles to establish himself.
brother, your comments show your unawareness of the history. I will reuest you to find a book about Imam Jaffar As Sadiq (as) or that era and read before commenting. As for naming names of the students, is it the names of Imam ul Aazam of the sunni Mazhab, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik not sufficient then let me know (read my last 2 posts)?
And by when i sid critique, i do not mean people not believing him as a 'divine Imam' but critique of his ilm and knowledge. You will find that the sunni Imams of madhab commonly and aggressively critiqued each other's work. Anyhow, it was not an easy task as it was Allah's blessing for the Ahlul Bayt (as).
".... Ask ahl al-dhikr if you do not know". (Quran 16:43)
".... Ask ahl al-dhikr if you do not know". (Quran 21:07)
Read the following tafaseer of the ayats if u r unsure of what i am trying to say:
Tafsir al-Kabir of al-Tha'labion in the meaning of chapter 16 (al-Nahl).
Tafsir al-Quran of Ibn Kathir in the 2nd volume, p. 570.
Tafsir of al-Tabari in volume 14, p. 109.
Tafsir Ruh al-Ma'ani of al-Alusi in volume 14, p. 134.
Tafsir al-Qurtubi in volume 11, p. 272.
Tafsir al-Hakim, called Shawahid al-Tanzil, volume 1, p. 334.
Tafsir al-Tustari called Ihqaq al-Haqq, in volume 3, p. 482
Yanabi' al-Mawadda of al-Qunduzi al-Hanafi, p. 51 and p. 140.
^You can even say 40,000 but can you give some names.
As far no one critiqued him, i will disagree. Its said that early shiites were hesitant to accept him as Imam, he had to show them some miracles to establish himself.
I think the most prominent name to have studied under the sixth Imam Jaafar (as) was Jabir bin Hayan (known commonly in the western world as Geber, a great scholar of chemistry). The long list of scholars who studied under him also includes Sufyan Ath-Thawri, Yahya ibn Saeed, Abdulmalik ibn Juraij, Sufyan ibn Uyainah, Muhammad ibn Isshaq and Shubah ibn Al-Hajjaj, most of these achieved positions of excellence and high repute as scholars of fiqh, hadith and history.
Sorry you are wrong – “Wahabis” do love Hz. Ali (ra) but not to limits the 12er Shias would like them to. And just to qualify I’m not a “Wahabi”
Excuse me? you must be kidding when you say that Wahabis love Hazrat Ali (as). Was it out of their love that this obnoxious group in 1801 and 1802 attacked Karbala and Najaf (Imam Hussain and Imam Ali shrines). They massacared Muslims, looted and destroyed the holy shrines and private properties or pretty much anything or anyone who came in the middle. Man, this is a really ignorant remark by you!
I think the most prominent name to have studied under the sixth Imam Jaafar (as) was Jabir bin Hayan (known commonly in the western world as Geber, a great scholar of chemistry). The long list of scholars who studied under him also includes Sufyan Ath-Thawri, Yahya ibn Saeed, Abdulmalik ibn Juraij, Sufyan ibn Uyainah, Muhammad ibn Isshaq and Shubah ibn Al-Hajjaj, most of these achieved positions of excellence and high repute as scholars of fiqh, hadith and history.
Thanks for naming a few scholars - Guess what?
Sufyan Ath-Thawri, Yahya ibn Saeed, Abdulmalik ibn Juraij, Sufyan ibn Uyainah, Muhammad ibn Isshaq and Shubah ibn Al-Hajjaj all these held positions of excellence and high repute as scholars of fiqh, hadith and history.
True to the Imams sayings great scholars were loyal to Shaikhain. They never became 12ers. Their beliefs are that of Ahlul Sunnah.
I had asked for:
[QUOTE]
Can you name any Shia scohlar of repute who studied under this two great Imams (ra)?
[/QUOTE]
And back with Sunni scholars :)
Jabir bin Hayan (known commonly in the western world as Geber) , as you rightly say was great scholar of chemistry - he is not known as a 'religious' scholar.
Let's have some names of 12er type of scholars whom you would respect
Please let me know if you too agree with the saying of righteous Imam (ra):
[QUOTE]
Imam Jaffar as Sadiq (ra) expressed his support to Abu Bakr and Umar:
Once wife of Imam Jaffar as Sadiq asked him about Abu Bakr and Umar.
He replied, "I support them”.
Then he said to his wife,” you should support them also."
His wife replied, "So should I say to my creator when I meet Him, that it is your order to support Abu Bakr and Umar."
The truthful Imam Jaffar replied, ” Yes." - Source: Rawzatul Kafi, vol.8, p.101
[/QUOTE]
The scholars you name did!!
...Man, this is a really ignorant remark by you!
Surdar, whatelse wud u expect from the wahabis?
Thanks for naming a few scholars - Guess what?
Sufyan Ath-Thawri, Yahya ibn Saeed, Abdulmalik ibn Juraij, Sufyan ibn Uyainah, Muhammad ibn Isshaq and Shubah ibn Al-Hajjaj all these held positions of excellence and high repute as scholars of fiqh, hadith and history.
True to the Imams sayings great scholars were loyal to Shaikhain. They never became 12ers. Their beliefs are that of Ahlul Sunnah.
I had asked for:
And back with Sunni scholars :)
Jabir bin Hayan (known commonly in the western world as Geber) , as you rightly say was great scholar of chemistry - he is not known as a 'religious' scholar.
Let's have some names of 12er type of scholars whom you would respect
Please let me know if you too agree with the saying of righteous Imam (ra):
The scholars you name did!!
brother 4000+ plus students and if some choose some jamaat then why i m not surprised is because not everybody could go against the Slateen of the time, i.e. love for money/power. I hinted towards it in my last post by saying that how ur ur imamul aazmas "decided to open their own schools". Oh we all know about the love of openening schools (good earnings and u get to become an IMAM). And btw i am not agreeing with u that all of those previledged people mentioned in the post went on to become Ahlay Sunnat wal jamaati as i have no information on that (if u do then please share!).
As for Jabir bin Hayan (geber) not being a mullah (elder brothers kurta and younger brothers shalwar), brother the way we look at knowledge is that it includes constructive use of aqal for any means and not necessary for religious sciences. Unfortunately u may not be aware of that as lutt-mullahs hardly study anything aprt from the likes of of Ibn Taymiya, Abdul Wahab, Saha sitta etc.
As for Abu Bakr, i again ask u if u wish to start a new thread in defence of the first khalifa so that we may start on him.
Its obvious that all you read is shia websites and all you listen to is local moulvi.
I would suggest you read The origin and early development of shiite Islam by SHM Jafari.
Can read it for free online here:
brother, look at the references i am giving u (from the best of tafseers) and u r telling me that i listen to the local moulvis! Allah bachae mullah say! I used to go to our main sunni mosque and i was stunned to watch the stuff the moulvis utter and the sleeping crowd just sits there listenin (either they dont care or dont know). Anyhow, i will read the book u suggested, thanks for that.
brother, look at the references i am giving u (from the best of tafseers) and u r telling me that i listen to the local moulvis! Allah bachae mullah say! I used to go to our main sunni mosque and i was stunned to watch the stuff the moulvis utter and the sleeping crowd just sits there listenin (either they dont care or dont know). Anyhow, i will read the book u suggested, thanks for that.
so you were a part of the sleeping crowd?
I agree with you Mullah and Khums collection go along well together.
Yes and you forgot to mention the traditional black turbans which look like as if one has just nicked Lambretta or Vespa Tyres and stuck them on the head.
Now allow me to make it a bit simpler for you. Though I thought it was simple enough before but ah well may be you will understand better now.
May be if you remove the Vespa tyre sorry I mean the Black rounded turban from your head you will get it this time.
Why are you trying to ignore answering the following: I have asked this Umpteenth times
If you can offend about 90% Muslims by your repungent views, don’t worry about me I don’t mind. To offend and curse is in your blood and genes.
Following book will also be useful for those interested written by one time 12er Shia
THE DEVELOPMENT OF SHIITE POLITICAL THOUGHT
ok, well, now that we have established u r a wahabi we cud get the real business started.
And i did read “THE ORIGINS AND DEVELOPMENT OF SHIITE POLITICAL THOUGHT” and found it a great read (specially the chapter Saqifa: The First Manifestations). Its quite obvious tht u havent bothered to read the book yrself coz if u did then u wudnt be posting the link in the thread titled “In the defence of Hz Umar” ( boy o boy, the followers of Abdul Wahab!). The author quite clearly and beautifuly exposes the tricks played by Khalifa Umar to do what he was best at doing.
Anyways, i will let u go rush to the book and check for urself. Thanks again for propogating the truth 
[quote="Ibn_Sadique, post:123, topic:184682"]
]1) **According to ‘Wahabis’
That is according to the wahabis and not majority of Muslims. For them showing love for the Prophet (pbuh) and his Family and companions is shirk yet the wahabi mullahs r the backbone of the illegitimate and corrupt regime of SAudi Arabia. They issue fatwas and spread hate material against fellow muslims using their ill-logics and teachings yet do not have any problem continue their love affair with the Americans, Israelis, British, and the Zionists. They r infact the biggest symbol of shirk themselves on the face of the earth.
lol
That is according to the wahabis and not majority of Muslims. For them showing love for the Prophet (pbuh) and his Family and companions is shirk yet the wahabi mullahs r the backbone of the illegitimate and corrupt regime of SAudi Arabia. They issue fatwas and spread hate material against fellow muslims using their ill-logics and teachings yet do not have any problem continue their love affair with the Americans, Israelis, British, and the Zionists. They r infact the biggest symbol of shirk themselves on the face of the earth.
Do you recall 12er Shia Iran under the Shah? - Well Al Saud are the same. Maliki government in Iraq is the same.
Now let's not get distracted:
Just a gentle reminder once again:
*Why are you trying to ignore answering the following: I have asked this Umpteenth times plus one
Imam Jaffar as Sadiq (ra) expressed his support to Abu Bakr and Umar:
Once wife of Imam Jaffar as Sadiq asked him about Abu Bakr and Umar.
He replied, "I support them”.
Then he said to his wife,” you should support them also."
His wife replied, "So should I say to my creator when I meet Him, that it is your order to support Abu Bakr and Umar."
The truthful Imam Jaffar replied, ” Yes." - Source: Rawzatul Kafi, vol.8, p.101 *
Ignoring it doesn't mean it has been answered..
Obviously the Noble Imam (ra) knew better as he was fountainhead of knowledge.
And Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) was his maternal great grandfather!!
Another questions you guys are delibrately ignoring: (asked umpteenthe times)
Can you name any Shia scohlar of repute who studied under this two great Imams (ra)?
difficult isn't it? Out of 4000 odd students of the Imam (ra) you guys cannot name even 12er Scholar!!??