Ibn Saqdique has said all that is neccassary.
i dnt need to say anymore.
It requires thought....thats all.
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I don’t think anybody deliberately bent upon accusing American Muslims of treason toward Islam. Do you mean to say CAIR is the ‘face’ of Islam in America? I just questioned the purpose of putting on these ads in the papers? Is not the very fact that these ads had to be put out show how insecure the ‘American Muslims’ feel?
Yes, we have our Muslim brothers & sisters in Europe, China, Russia, Australia, India etc. etc. and we are proud of them as we are of our Muslims brothers and sisters in the USA. But I have yet to see them putting out the ads as above and wave the flag for to be accepted as part and parcel of their adopted country. I have not seen any other religious community doing the same! (for example I am American and I am a Hindu/Jew/Christian).
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I mean, eemo and others in this thread...how many of you folks decided to live in Pakistan? Not for nationalistic reasons, but so that you could contribute to a MUSLIM society and contribute to making it an Islamic society with Islamic Law? If muslims are running away from Muslim-populated countries, the only place where Islamic law can easily be established, then why blame us American muslims for living within American society...?
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I dont see Pakistanis wanting to go back to Pakistan, especially when chors have eaten up the country and we, like chickens, ran away. ………
I agree with you that given half the chance many people in Muslim countries would give ‘their right arm’ to get into USA. The reason being, that their own countries are ruled by Dictators/kings/presidents for life/corrupt to the core politicians, who are subservient to the USA. These countries are never ruled to the betterment of its people. America keeps harping about the benefits of democracy, but it’s on record that it has always supported the Dictators/kings/presidents for life/corrupt to the core politicians. If that was not the case, most of people would love to stay with their own people.
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You folks abhor America because its economically more powerful. Maybe its jealousy that moves you to say these things about your fellow Muslims living in America.
Are not just repeating what Mr. Bush often says that the world abhors America because it’s economically more powerful, and that the World is jealous of America?
Well if you follow the world events you would know that vast majority of Europeans, Russians and many nationalities dislike America for it’s attitude towards the rest of the world. The Muslim people dislike its anti-Islamic policies. (Blind &total support for Israel, Kashmir etc. etc.).
I really don’t have any reason to be jealous of my Muslim brothers and sisters in America. why should anyone be jealous? Just because they have bigger house than mine, or that they drive a bigger car than me? As a Muslim, I am not. Allah (swt) is the provider and He gives whom He wants.
But then doesn’t Allah the Exalted says in His Mighty Book:
“Know that the life of this world is nothing but play and amusement, glitter, mutual boasting and rivalry amongst yourselves in (the accumulation of) wealth and children. Just like the example of the rain and the growth it brings which brings delight to the tillers. Then it withers and you see it become yellow. Then it dries and crumbles away. But in the hereafter there is an intense punishment as well as forgiveness from Allâh and His good pleasure. And this life is nothing but a deceiving entertainment. Be foremost in seeking forgiveness from your Lord and a garden whose width is as the width of the heavens and the earth, prepared for those who believe in Allâh and His Messengers. That is the bounty of Allâh and He gives His bounty to whomsoever He pleases, and Allâh is the Possessor of great bounty and grace.”
The Messenger of Allah (saw): "If this world was equal (in value) to the wing of a fly in the sight of Allah He would never have given a sip of water to the disbeliever."
And “The world is prison for the believers and paradise for the disbelievers."
Worldly lifestyle has no criteria in Islam. It’s Taqwa and sincere adherence to Islamic values (the Islamic values as given by Quran and Sunnah) whether we like them or not that counts at the end of the day and where and how you live.
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Please dont insult our way of life when you yourself have not lived it AND because you are in fact, not living it.
I don’t think anybody here insulted ‘your way of life’, but, just questioned the wisdom behind issuing of these posters. I am very happy and content and at ease where ever my Lord has put me on this world. I wish you well for your satisfaction for your lifestyle. But Jealous of your lifestyle? Certainly NOT.
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What are you guys really trying to profess here..? What's wrong with being an American and a Muslim, and who are you to judge about others' faith and their nationalistic ideologies. Get yourself out of insecurity, and that's all.
In fact the very same attitude is causing Muslims to lag behind and especially, when they use Islamic interpretations to justify their lack of abilities to participate in 'mainstream'. If you are unable to mingle and progress, then don't use religion as an excuse, and try to discredit others' in their beliefs, and achievements.
We’ll listen to you after you call us Muslims and an American…
Thank you Nadia!
This ad campaign may help to improve relations between Muslims and non-Muslims in America and hopefully give some opportunities for dawah.
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What are you guys really trying to profess here..?
Try reading the ‘offensive posts to you’ again, this time, don’t just skim over; all that was said in a few words is that those expensive ads in the papers are waste of money. In Islam, there is no such thing as ‘American Muslim, British Muslims, Pakistani Muslims, and Saudi Muslim etc. etc. It would have been better if the ads had following as a heading “We are Muslims and are living peacefully in America.” Here the emphasis is on being Muslim first and not other way round. Nobody has the right to redefine Islamic principles to ‘fit into’ American society.
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What's wrong with being an American and a Muslim, and who are you to judge about others' faith and their nationalistic ideologies.
Nothing wrong, but don’t cheer & wave the flag when Daisy Cutters [what an innocent name for what a terrible device] fall on the heads your innocent Muslim brothers and sisters. Nobody was questioning anybody’s faith.
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Get yourself out of insecurity, and that's all.
“Security lies in complete submission to Allah (swt). Abu Huraira narrated that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, said: "Islam initiated as something strange, and it would revert to its old position of being strange, so good tidings for the strangers." (Recorded by Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, and Ahmad) This hadith shows that Islam started weak and strange, then became strong and will then, at certain times and places go through a second state of weakness. Muslims who then stick firmly to their religion will have many dissenters and only few supporters.” We, Muslims don’t have to integrate to be accepted. We have our own heritage. Our heroes are the villains for the west; their heroes are villains for us Muslims. A Muslim cannot adopt the heritage of the non-Muslims. Any one accepting Islam denounces his/her heritage and accepts the Islamic heritage. Islam-wise the world is not divided into nationalities as we see nowadays but into two camps — Dar ul Islam and Dar ul Kufr. Living in Dar ul Kufr, my security still lies with Dar ul Islam. And why am I living in Dar ul Kufr? The following hadith should answer your question THAT THE EARTH BELONGS TO ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE :
Narrated Abu Huraira: While we were in the mosque, Allah's Apostle came out to us and said, "Let us proceed to the Jews." So we went along with him till we reached Bait-al-Midras (a place where the Torah used to be recited and all the Jews of the town used to gather). The Prophet stood up and addressed them, "O Assembly of Jews! Embrace Islam and you will be safe!" The Jews replied, "O Aba-l-Qasim! You have conveyed Allah's message to us." The Prophet said, "That is what I want (from you)." He repeated his first statement for the second time, and they said, "You have conveyed Allah's message, O Aba-l-Qasim." Then he said it for the third time and added, "You should Know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to exile you fro,,, this land, so whoever among you owns some property, can sell it, OTHERWISE YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT THE EARTH BELONGS TO ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE." Volume 9, Book 85, Number 77
"To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth..." (Qur’an 2:284)
Rather than integration, we have to inter act with non-Muslims with all the etiquettes practiced by Rasool Allah (swt).
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In fact the very same attitude is causing Muslims to lag behind and especially, when they use Islamic interpretations to justify their lack of abilities to participate in 'mainstream'. If you are unable to mingle and progress, then don't use religion as an excuse, and try to discredit others' in their beliefs, and achievements.
Muslims should have very positive and confident attitude about Islam and Muslims. The success & Honour of Muslims lies in practicing Islam to its fullest and not just rituals of Ibaadat.
IT IS HE (God Almighty) WHO HAS SENT HIS MESSENGER (Muhammad) WITH GUIDANCE AND THE RELIGION OF TRUTH (Islam) THAT HE MAY MAKE IT PREVAIL OVER ALL RELIGIONS, AND ENOUGH IS GOD FOR A WITNESS. Holy Qur'an 48:28
It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). 9:33
The Prophet -peace be upon him- said, “This message will reach to wherever the night and day have reached. Allah shall not leave any home built by clay or stones or by animal skin (tent) except Allah will make this religion to enter it, to give honor to those who are honorable and to disgrace those who are disgraceful. The honor Allah shall give to Islam and dishonor Allah shall give to unbelief. (Musnad Ahmad 16344)
It is our belief and conviction that the truth will prevail. The justice and righteousness shall be established on this earth. Islam gives us confidence that Allah’s purpose cannot be defeated by any one.
Allah has decreed: “It is I and My Messengers who must prevail”: for Allah is One full of strength, able to enforce His Will. 58:21)
The honor belongs to Allah and His Messenger, and to the Believers; but the Hypocrites know not. (al-Munfiqun 63:8)
Saying just plainly “I’m a MUSLIM” is not a popular thing to say these days.
I don’t think any has discredited anybody, only the wisdom of those ads. I understand the ‘problem’ of the Muslims in America. May Allah (swt) with His Infinite Mercy make it easy for every one.
Abdullah K :k:
Agreed
I recived these pictures in an email recently.
And I am not happy with them at all.
Firstly I think Cair or the American Muslim organisation that is responsible for these pictures, created them out of pure pressure in the States, there is no islamic benefit from this campiagn at all.
The only conclusion i can get from these series of pictures is to appease the american public and authorities.
by the way i am muslim and muslim alone!
Thank you Abdullah and PCG.
It's pretty sad that we are so caught up in arguing amongst ourselves over whether or not to call ourselves "American" (or British or Canadian or Australian etc) and yet - if we could invest even half this zeal and energy towards other issues such as poverty and care for widows, maybe that would be a better investment of time. But i guess it is easier and more fun to waste time on trivial academic issues.
asallamoalakom
are we muslim or are we all blind?????????
Both.
The person in Santa Clara who is part of developing these ads, shared them with us (a select group of community members) before these were to be sent for publication. And most of us felt that the ads sound almost apologetic. However, the bigger problem was to figure out who is the audience for these ads. The right-wing red-necks are not likely to be swayed by these ads and the rational, educated American are not the problem here. The aim seems to be addressing the political leadership, so they don't go ahead with promulgating more anti-muslim laws.
We felt the message should have been more direct. I mean, its clear to anyone, that the purpose of the ads is to distance the muslim community in the US from the terroristic activities in the post Sep 11. But the message in these ads was a bit jumbled. The people responsible for producing the ads were, on the other hand, confident that they know the marketing psyche and these ads will work.
I think, at the end of the day, we'll just wait and see if these ads will have any real impact. The jury is still out on that.
Faisal Bhai,
The discussion regarding whether or not these ads are effective in the message they are portraying, is a valid debate and i am grateful for your comments albeit they may differ slightly from my own personal opinions. i am grateful you took the time to articulate your thoughts in a balanced manner. Thank you for that sincerely.
i don’t know if it is because i am feeling tired right now ya kia masla hai, but i am not certain i understand the sentiments expressed in the previous page. Why is it not possible to call oneself a Muslim American? Is that such a crime? It’s almost as though doing that is akin to committing an act of heresy.
Apart from yourself, no one seems to have brought up the issue of whether or not the ads are effective in the message they are attempting to convey. An entirely separate tangent has developed, which is summed up by this one statement from the previous page: Nobody has the right to redefine Islamic principles to ‘fit into’ American society. 
No one is ‘redefining’ Islamic priniciples to ‘fit’ into ANY society, and anyone who has read any of my posts in the World Affairs Forum should know by now i am the last individual on earth to propose such a preposterous notion.
Sorry maybe i am just tired right now so i am not thinking clearly. It just bewilders me that we split hairs over the most tiniest of issues when the bigger pictures at large seem to escape our notice entirely.
Sorry if i have offended anyone, most unintentionally done so, qasam sai. 
i would WARMLY welcome a polite discussion re: the effectiveness of the ads, especially if it will be a discussion in which thoughtful Guppies like yourself take part in, but i hate to even have judgemental discussions such as the one taking place on the previous page.
Whenever there is talk Nadia, there are always divurgent issues that get raised…Some postees and mods actually come into the discussion to turn the thread back to where it initially intended to be…Don’t let anything disturb your reading into anything, unless proven otherwise…
The most prominent feature which I saw in the ads were the instances of, I am an American and I am a Muslim. For me that takes a whole different meaning. It means for me, that initially I was an American, THEN I became a Muslim. Why is the ‘I am an American’ first? Why not ‘I am a Muslim and I am an American’. That suffices for me…Because Islamic principles and Islam come first in my life. Then I become a citizen of some country.
You will say that it’s trivial and small and the issue I am raising is childish. So it is, but for me it is an issue. And the tone that "I am an American and I am a Muslim’ sets a whole different meaning to it.
If I am being childish, then the designers of the posters should be grown-ups and change it to ‘I am a Muslim and I am an American’.
I would like to say more, but then that is another issue which will take us to another issue…:rotato:
…Don’t want you labelling me as a discussion breaker…
ª
Lajawab!
You expressed my sentiments to the point, in fact I couldnft have expressed them so precisely.
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Originally posted by Lajawab: *
**If I am being childish, then the designers of the posters should be grown-ups and change it to 'I am a Muslim and I am an American'.*
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Lajawab, When you read the following, please remember that i am saying it with due respect to yourself... (sincerely i mean that)... while we are busy grinding our way through the English semantics of these ads, we are losing sight of the bigger picture. We are losing sight of the fact that a group of Muslims put in mind an objective and set out to achieve that particular objective. They wanted to present "Islam" and "Muslims" in a different light. They set out to achieve those objectives through this presentation and by raising funds to have these ads published in the NY Times. THIS, for me, is the real jihad. Instead of endorsing their efforts, their jihad, we entwine ourselves with grinding through their semantic complexities, and in the process lose sight of the fact that at least someone, somewhere, is doing SOMEthing.
i feel like the odd one out here, maybe i'm just weird i don't know. Pata nahiN why i think this way so strongly. We have SOOOOOOOOOOO many other issues around the world, at least these individuals took the effort and financial resources and spent it wisely by aiming to challenge common misperceptions regarding Islam and Muslims. We can ridicule their efforts and wage a semantical argument that their title should have been this-and-this instead of that-and-that, OR, we can join them as our Muslim brothers and sisters and work towards attaining their objectives in unity, hand in hand. The choice is ours.
CAIR's efforts are certainly commendable. They do a lot of good work and stand up for the Muslim community in the US. However, we shouldn't block positive criticism, provided that it is "positive".
Another thing, there is no reason why Muslims need to be apologitic or looking for compromises. Instead, they need to fear Allah Almighty only. We should know that Muslims are right and Non-Muslims are wrong. Having a dominance in the world is just a temporary thing -- aaj hei kal naheen!
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*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
Lajawab, When you read the following, please remember that i am saying it with due respect to yourself... (sincerely i mean that)... while we are busy grinding our way through the English semantics of these ads, we are losing sight of the bigger picture. We are losing sight of the fact that a group of Muslims put in mind an objective and set out to achieve that particular objective. They wanted to present "Islam" and "Muslims" in a different light. They set out to achieve those objectives through this presentation and by raising funds to have these ads published in the NY Times. THIS, for me, is the real jihad. Instead of endorsing their efforts, their jihad, we entwine ourselves with grinding through their semantic complexities, and in the process lose sight of the fact that at least someone, somewhere, is doing SOMEthing.
i feel like the odd one out here, maybe i'm just weird i don't know. Pata nahiN why i think this way so strongly. We have SOOOOOOOOOOO many other issues around the world, at least these individuals took the effort and financial resources and spent it wisely by aiming to challenge common misperceptions regarding Islam and Muslims. We can ridicule their efforts and wage a semantical argument that their title should have been this-and-this instead of that-and-that, OR, we can join them as our Muslim brothers and sisters and work towards attaining their objectives in unity, hand in hand. The choice is ours.
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I have no doubt that what these people have achieved for the service of of our faith far outweighs everything I have ever done for it. I laude them on their effort and pray that Allah :swt: gives them success in their aspirations…However, those aspirations include me too…And I don’t call myself an American-Muslim but a Muslim-American…I am Muslim first and foremost and I don’t want to sound apologetic about it…It’s a fact for me, not matter of semantics…
As far as semantics go, Mr. Dubya once said ‘crusade’…We could have let it go…However the world was in an uproar…One word denoted the entire tone of the speech…
And as far as looking at the bigger picture is concerned, I too am looking at one…It may not be the same one as you, but then nothing is…My picture is one where Muslims are getting second billing with everything…
Nowadays Nadia, the world fights its wars with words and images…Semantics will play a definite role in the upcoming future…
Just my opinion which incidentally doesn’t clash with yours…
Or does it? 
i agree semantics is important. i think the analogy is not comparable. That word signalled a change towards a harsher, more militant approach towards a campaign that is affecting several Muslim countries and millions of Muslims, in an adverse manner. These ads, on the contrary, aim to do nothing of the sort.
**
In some aspects, i believe it does. But knowing that we both would want to behave as two Muslims are supposed to when a disagreement occurs, i am sure we can both peacefully agree to disagree.
in islam , muslims are muslims. you can't categorise them based on their location and country they live in. i think CAIR forgot this very basic aspect of islam. shows how much they know about islam. these ads are nothing more than arse kissing by CAIR. what objective are they REALLY trying to achieve with these ads? do they want to improve muslims images all over the woorld? do they want to change the common misconception others have about muslims? well if this is wht they want to achieve then they have failed miserably. the line i'm an american and i'm a muslim will further widen all of the above mentioned objectives. it gives the impressing that only those who are americans are capable fo understanding wht islam is all about only bcoz they are americans first and then they are muslims. giving ppl the wrong impressions that muslims who are not americans are not capable of understanding islam they way these ppl understand islam in america. clearly widening the gap further. thus making lifee difficult for those who are MUSLIMS but NOT AMERICANS. :~)